Running, Anyone...?

**abraham** · 02-17-2015, 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by Big Steve

Should we gather for a mag 50K in late October or early November, after mountain season/before ski season? Alternatively, ultramags consider joining us for our annual Enchantments thru-hike/run in early October/Lyall's Larch prime time.

I'd be interested, I'm working back into it slowly right now. Oct is probably better than Nov, but it's all work dependent

**Viva** · 02-17-2015, 08:27 PM

If I stay WestCo, I would certainly be interested. Starting to train once more following a many-year hiatus.

**hutash** · 02-17-2015, 10:02 PM

Any recs on Hoka shoes for us not so big boys. I'm 56, 165lbs, not doing a ton of miles but try to get 3-4 runs in a week from 4 to 10 miles each. Mostly road since I hate driving some place to exercise. My biggest concern is having knees and hip when I turn 70. I do run on the beach, or through orchards when I get the chance, I don't want to pound too much pavement.

**Viva** · 02-17-2015, 11:13 PM

Are you currently experiencing knee/hip problems? Your best bet is to try various shoes at stores that employ actual runners. I don't know of any in Ventura, but the old Phidippides store in Encino is now a Fleet Feet and they're not too stupid. Time it right, and it's not a long drive.

Fuck the roads! You're near some awesome trails in Malibu/Calabassas/Agoura/etc., some of the best trail running in SoCal.

**fool** · 02-18-2015, 07:37 AM

My understanding is that the two are similar in that they're modified carbohydrates that empty from the stomach quickly. Beyond that, I believe they are very different. Vitargo is designed to produce a large insulin spike, very quickly. UCan is designed to provide a steady stream of carbohydrates with little to no insulin response. I know I can burn fat pretty efficiently. I wanted a carb source that wasn't going to limit that.

Ah, looks like you're right. Very interesting, thought they were much more similar products. And also a little surprising about Vitargo as Dave Mackey - a pretty damn good masters runner - speaks highly of Vitargo for ultras. Maybe it's the sponsorship talking. I'll have to give UCan a try.

Originally Posted by hutash

Any recs on Hoka shoes for us not so big boys. I'm 56, 165lbs, not doing a ton of miles but try to get 3-4 runs in a week from 4 to 10 miles each. Mostly road since I hate driving some place to exercise. My biggest concern is having knees and hip when I turn 70. I do run on the beach, or through orchards when I get the chance, I don't want to pound too much pavement.

Don't have Hoka's yet, but was looking at getting some to protect my knees a little given I've been running more road than usual. I'm going to try a handful on this weekend, but leaning towards the Clifton's based on their light weight.

Originally Posted by Big Steve

Should we gather for a mag 50K in late October or early November, after mountain season/before ski season? Alternatively, ultramags consider joining us for our annual Enchantments thru-hike/run in early October/Lyall's Larch prime time.

Definitely interested.

**Cruiser** · 02-18-2015, 09:15 AM

Mrs Cruiser has been asking about getting a treadmill lately and I'm sort of tempted by the idea. Any insight on these things from the runners out there? I haven't been on one in a decade or more and even back then my experience was very limited. Do you have to spend $1500 to get something decent? Are they really easier on the knees then road or trail running? Any features/brands/etc.. to look out for?

**GeezerSteve** · 02-18-2015, 09:39 AM

I can't do the treadmill thing. I keep my running simple, i.e., get my ass out the door and run.

Re Hokas, per Viva, best to go to a running shoe store.

Okay, so let's do a mag Chants thru-hike/run during larch season in early October. It's only 20 miles but a ball-buster with some very slow stretches (e.g., up to Aasgard Pass and down Trauma Rib). My fastest time is 7 hours but I'll be closer to 9 hours this year. We usually stay in the camper at Snow Lake TH, shuttle to Stuart Lake TH pre-dawn, start via headlamps.

**hutash** · 02-18-2015, 10:28 AM

Yeah, I knew that was the correct answer. There is one running store here, but I hear mixed reviews...still I will check it out. No real knee/foot problems to speak off. Had a meniscal tear repaired and still have a lateral tear that is not an issue unless I step and twist exactly wrong, which does happen from time to time hiking on rough trails. I do occasionally get out to the Santa Monica mountains, but I hate driving to go for a run. I am with Big Steve, keep it simple go out the door and run. Same for cycling, which is why I am a roadie, I hate loading up the MTB a driving to a TH.

**GeezerSteve** · 02-18-2015, 10:39 AM

A running shop without expertise can be worse than no running shop at all. Can you go to another town? Although I prefer to buy at a local running shoe store -- I spread my $$ to 3 different shops in Seattle -- note that REI carries Hokas. For road running, look at the Conquest or Clifton. For trail running, look at the Challenger ATR. Be wary of older models (e.g., Bondi B) unless they happen to fit you just right. Original Hokas were very low volume, then gen2 were very high volume. Hoka recently changed the lasts, seem to have hit it with Conquest, Clifton, Challenger.

**Viva** · 02-18-2015, 12:43 PM

Hutash, next time you drive to Mammoth, check out Sage to Summit, on Main Street in Bishop (on corner and up street from Wilson's Eastside Sports). Pretty much trail everything, and they carry Hokas. Jeff Kozak works there and he's a very experienced runner and a great guy. If they don't have the right shoe for you, they send you to the competition who does.

**GeezerSteve** · 02-18-2015, 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by Viva

Jeff Kozak works there and he's a very experienced runner and a great guy.

I ran into him at Where's Waldo 100K and maybe SOB 50K. Strong runner, surely knows his stuff.

**hutash** · 02-18-2015, 02:59 PM

Originally Posted by Viva

Hutash, next time you drive to Mammoth, check out Sage to Summit, on Main Street in Bishop (on corner and up street from Wilson's Eastside Sports). Pretty much trail everything, and they carry Hokas. Jeff Kozak works there and he's a very experienced runner and a great guy. If they don't have the right shoe for you, they send you to the competition who does.

Good idea, I know the shop.

**Alaskan Rover** · 02-18-2015, 05:14 PM

Originally Posted by Big Steve

I ran into him at Where's Waldo 100K and maybe SOB 50K. Strong runner, surely knows his stuff.

A 100 km????? Basically 62 miles??????????? I've heard of those kind of races, but it sounds nuts. I don't even think running a marathon can really be all that good for you in the long run. (Hey....an unintended pun....well, not a "pun", really,...what are those called?).

**bodywhomper** · 02-18-2015, 09:59 PM

any collective thoughts on kelley starrett's new book, "ready to run"?
http://www.amazon.com/Ready-Run-Unlo.../dp/1628600098

**wooley12** · 02-18-2015, 11:02 PM

Originally Posted by Cruiser

Mrs Cruiser has been asking about getting a treadmill lately and I'm sort of tempted by the idea. Any insight on these things from the runners out there? I haven't been on one in a decade or more and even back then my experience was very limited. Do you have to spend $1500 to get something decent? Are they really easier on the knees then road or trail running? Any features/brands/etc.. to look out for?

I have found the Phoenix 98510P Easy Up Manual Treadmill at $150 holds a couple of back packs, 4 shirts and 2 damp towels well for the price. Has a cup holder too!!

Your results may vary.

**fool** · 02-23-2015, 10:53 PM

If anyone is looking for some Hoka's, STP has a fair number of pairs right now. You can also get 30% off with the coupon code from the site. I just ordered some Huaka's for about $75 with in store pickup.

**Cruiser** · 02-24-2015, 07:20 AM

Been tempted to try a pair of their trail shoes when the weather warms up. I'm hoping to trail run some more 14ers this season. Anyone care to comment on how well do they hold up to scrambling through talus near the summit where there isn't a real defined trail?

**GeezerSteve** · 02-24-2015, 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by fool

If anyone is looking for some Hoka's, STP has a fair number of pairs right now.

Good way to get introduced to Hokas for a good price, but buyer beware of gen1 and gen2 Hokas. gen1s were absurdly low volume, tended to rip out. gen2 are better, much more volume (too much for my average foot), but I've ripped out (and repaired) two pairs. Hoka seems to have finally dialed in the volume with the current crop. Durability of upper TBD

**bean** · 02-25-2015, 12:54 PM

Different Hoka models have very different volume. They've finally got a chart up that shows the differences between a few models.

I'm a huge fan, and retire them at 1000km whether they need to go or not. Third pair will be ready for the dumpster in a few weeks. I've also got 150mi on a pair of Cliftons and they're my favorite Hoka so far. I'll definitely be grabbing a pair of the Challenger for trail use this spring.

**GeezerSteve** · 02-25-2015, 12:58 PM

Right. I was talking about different generations of the same model. The original Bondi B was absurdly low volume. gen2 Bondi B is medium volume or a bit larger.

**bean** · 02-25-2015, 01:00 PM

And the Bondi 3 is for hobbits. Just saying "gen1 or gen2 hokas" isn't being specific enough since there are the Bondis, Stinsons, Mafates, and probably something else I'm not recalling that have all been around for years.

**bean** · 02-25-2015, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by Cruiser

Been tempted to try a pair of their trail shoes when the weather warms up. I'm hoping to trail run some more 14ers this season. Anyone care to comment on how well do they hold up to scrambling through talus near the summit where there isn't a real defined trail?

Depends on which 14ers. Cliftons or Challenger ATRs will be fine for the easier trails like Grays and Elbert. The Rapa Nui 2 or Speedgoat (coming out this summer, i.e. Rapa Nui 3) will be a little beefier if you expect to scrape the sides of your feet against talus often. If you can find a pair of the old Stinson EVOs they're nearly indestructible.

**Viva** · 02-26-2015, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by Cruiser

Been tempted to try a pair of their trail shoes when the weather warms up. I'm hoping to trail run some more 14ers this season. Anyone care to comment on how well do they hold up to scrambling through talus near the summit where there isn't a real defined trail?

This is a non-question. Twenty years ago, I was doing all this in road shoes without any issue. Find the best shoe for you and fucking run!

**bean** · 02-26-2015, 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by Viva

This is a non-question. Twenty years ago, I was doing all this in road shoes without any issue. Find the best shoe for you and fucking run!

**Andyski** · 02-26-2015, 01:04 PM

Originally Posted by Alaskan Rover

A 100 km????? Basically 62 miles??????????? I've heard of those kind of races, but it sounds nuts. I don't even think running a marathon can really be all that good for you in the long run. (Hey....an unintended pun....well, not a "pun", really,...what are those called?).

My GF is doing the fat dog 120k this summer, and we crewed a buddy of mine on it last year. Let's just say there's A LOT of hiking.