Running, Anyone...?

[bagtagley]

Ran my first 50k today. Been doing most of my runs fasted, including long runs. So, nutrition was a bit tough since the "trust your training" mantra doesn't really apply. Ended up eating coconut oil and this stuff I came across called Generation UCan. Two tbsp coconut oil and two scoops UCan pre race, and 1tbsp coconut oil and 3 scoops UCan during. Never had any energy issues, no sugar gut, no ups and downs, just steady energy. It needs some fine tuning, particularly the coconut oil, but I'm happily done with Gus and sugar drinks.

[Viva]

Which 50K didja run?

[bagtagley]

Holiday Lake 50k, near Appomattox. It was suggested as a good, flat shake out run before the spring mountain races.

[Dantheman]

Nice. What was your time? Sounds like you're working up to something later this year?

[Cruiser]

50k is beyond comprehension for a lazy Sunday runner like me. How do you train for that? Do you get out like once a week and do a similarly long distance run then just do shorter stuff in between?

[GeezerSteve]

How do you train for that?

Run a bunch of hours at a slow pace, better 2X per week than 1X. Think time, not miles, e.g., go out and run for 3 hours and ramp that up a bit each week or so. If the race course is hilly (as most in the PNW are) it helps to also hike a bunch. On a hilly race course, all but the elite runners will walk much of the uphill. OTOH, a flat 50K is sorta like a marathon but 5M/8km longer.

[fool]

Ran my first 50k today. Been doing most of my runs fasted, including long runs. So, nutrition was a bit tough since the "trust your training" mantra doesn't really apply. Ended up eating coconut oil and this stuff I came across called Generation UCan. Two tbsp coconut oil and two scoops UCan pre race, and 1tbsp coconut oil and 3 scoops UCan during. Never had any energy issues, no sugar gut, no ups and downs, just steady energy. It needs some fine tuning, particularly the coconut oil, but I'm happily done with Gus and sugar drinks.

Another one I've heard good things about is Vitargo. Thinking I'll be trying that out for some fueling this summer.

[DBdude]

I ran and was in some sort of shape until my mid 30s. I hit 50 last year, and endurance wise and basic physical shape I am a mess. I am easily 30 - 40 over weight. I am 6' 6" and a padded ectomorph.

Running used to be enjoyable - now it is dreadful.

I believe I need to build a base and train at the low end of aerobic zone and need a heart monitor. Any suggestions? What about a good web site for old fat bastards like me who need help.

thanks /blog

[GeezerSteve]

DBdude, my suggestion is to stop calling it "running" and start thinking of it as "jogging." Get your ass out the door and shuffle along. 15 minutes the first day and increase time gradually. Do not worry about running too slow, but do worry about running too fast (and thus getting anaerobic.) Do not let yourself get anaerobic for the first few weeks. Walk the uphills if that's what it takes.

If your body feels like it's getting unduly pounded, get some Hoka shoes.

If you are looking for something to read, try Training for Endurance by Phil Maffetone, which has good fundamentals re heart monitor training. I used one for a bit 12 years ago, ran JFK 50M with it, quit after a few months, don't think it helped much. YMMV

[DBdude]

DBdude, my suggestion is to stop calling it "running" and start thinking of it as "jogging." Get your ass out the door and shuffle along. 15 minutes the first day and increase time gradually. Do not worry about running too slow, but do worry about running too fast (and thus getting anaerobic.) Do not let yourself get anaerobic for the first few weeks. Walk the uphills if that's what it takes.

If your body feels like it's getting unduly pounded, get some Hoka shoes.

If you are looking for something to read, try Training for Endurance by Phil Maffetone, which has good fundamentals re heart monitor training. I used one for a bit 12 years ago, ran JFK 50M with it, quit after a few months, don't think it helped much. YMMV

oh sure - I am a jogger, always was, that said when I ran, I always went anaerobic, sooner or later, and would get sore. I didn't mind, and would just work through it. Now, it's different. Jogging is difficult because of my weight. I am up to 265, and I really don't want to over do it. I can ski and I still hike, and bat a tennis ball around, but I really am out of shape. I need to turn it around, and I don't want to beat myself up the way I used to.

[GeezerSteve]

DBdude, FWIW, I have finished a few ultramarathons @ 255-265 lbs., 60+ ultras @ 240-255 lbs. and 15 ultras @ 230-240

Thank goodness for Hokas. Hoka Vanquish for road, Hoka Challenger ATR for trail. Other models are too soft for big boys.

[Harry]

Any of you Ultra freaks coming to Big Sky in September for our 50K that goes up & over the peak ?
I have couch space avail walking distance to the start/finish line.
I volunteer at an aid station every year.

www.runtherut.com



Edit: I am the exact same age/height/weight as Big Steve. I should quit being a pussy.

[jfost]

...Edit: I am the exact same age/height/weight as Big Steve. I should quit being a pussy.

JFC you guys are waaaaay too big to be runners. You should all stick to linebacking or low-posting or designated hitting, or possibly even goal keeping if futbol is your thing...

[GeezerSteve]

Thanks for the invite, Harry. I used to run 2 ultras every September but then figured out that early Sept is prime time for lots of routes in the WA Cascades, so I'll likely be in boots and carrying an ice axe that weekend. Years ago I planned to get to MT for Le Grizz 50M but never made it, and I'm now too old and too fat to run 50 miles in a day.

jfrost, FTR, I have been the heaviest finisher in each of my 87 ultra finishes, but there are some other big boys doing it. In 2002(?) I finished JFK 50M @240 lbs. a few minutes ahead of a guy @ 235 lbs. Those were post-race/post shower weights. My bud ultra legend John Bandur finished 300+ ultras/marathons including 50+ 100 mile races, all @ >210 lbs., some quite a bit heavier than that.

[Andyski]

Any of you PNW fucks doing Chukanut? Pretty stoked to do the 50k there. Did a 54k in BC last year that I "enjoyed" and am ramping up to do Snoqualmie-->Stevens in early summer to take advantage of this horrific winter.

[GeezerSteve]

54K? Walk in the Park? Nick Jordan? That was my best finish, 6th place I think, in 1997 or something like that.

I'll be sweeping Chuckyerguts for the umptheenth time, raced it a bunch of times, 15 finishes or something like that. I'll likely sweep only 20 or so miles this time.

Samthaman ran Chuckanut a few years ago.

We're looking at Stevens>Snoqualmie PCT, but prolly September. My ultra buds Mark, Ike and Gene were the first party to do it in <24 hours.

[Andyski]

54K? Walk in the Park? Nick Jordan? That was my best finish, 6th place I think, in 1997 or something like that.

I'll be sweeping Chuckyerguts for the umptheenth time, raced it a bunch of times, 15 finishes or something like that. I'll likely sweep only 20 or so miles this time.

Samthaman ran Chuckanut a few years ago.

We're looking at Stevens>Snoqualmie PCT, but prolly September. My ultra buds Mark, Ike and Gene were the first party to do it in <24 hours.

Ding ding ding! Walk in the Park it was. Won it, though it was FAR from a tough field 😃. Really nice way to do that mileage. Frosty is way prettier tho.

[jfost]

...jfrost, FTR, I have been the heaviest finisher in each of my 87 ultra finishes, but there are some other big boys doing it. In 2002(?) I finished JFK 50M @240 lbs. a few minutes ahead of a guy @ 235 lbs. Those were post-race/post shower weights. My bud ultra legend John Bandur finished 300+ ultras/marathons including 50+ 100 mile races, all @ >210 lbs., some quite a bit heavier than that.

I am really impressed with you big boys, no way to defy physics - has to be simply more work to cover same distance, kudos!

[GeezerSteve]

Congrats! 6+ hour winning time? [/breaking balls] I think the winning time was around 4 hours, maybe sub-4, the year I ran it. But, hey, a win is a win, so good on you. Really fun event. RD Nick Jordan is a funny fellow.

Do you know Moe?

[bagtagley]

Nice. What was your time? Sounds like you're working up to something later this year?

5:37. My goal was just to finish, with sub-6 as a nice perk, so I was very happy. My ultimate goal is a mountain 50K, which I'll likely run in April. After that, I'm thinking I might go back to shorter distance trail races. You've done some big ultras, haven't you?

50k is beyond comprehension for a lazy Sunday runner like me. How do you train for that? Do you get out like once a week and do a similarly long distance run then just do shorter stuff in between?

That's basically it. For the record, when I moved here, I despised running. I picked it back up because I didn't have time to ride the places I wanted to ride, and I was sick of being out of shape. I started with shorter (half marathon) road runs, then got hooked by trail running, and just slowly upped my mileage. I run much lower mileage than most people, though. I get bored if I only run, so I ride my bike and swim some as well. I also like to have at least one resistance day each week. I run because of its simplicity and ease, and because it can take me incredible places where sadly, bikes aren't allowed

Another one I've heard good things about is Vitargo. Thinking I'll be trying that out for some fueling this summer.

My understanding is that the two are similar in that they're modified carbohydrates that empty from the stomach quickly. Beyond that, I believe they are very different. Vitargo is designed to produce a large insulin spike, very quickly. UCan is designed to provide a steady stream of carbohydrates with little to no insulin response. I know I can burn fat pretty efficiently. I wanted a carb source that wasn't going to limit that.

[Andyski]

Congrats! 6+ hour winning time? [/breaking balls] I think the winning time was around 4 hours, maybe sub-4, the year I ran it. But, hey, a win is a win, so good on you. Really fun event. RD Nick Jordan is a funny fellow.

Do you know Moe?

I've met Moe. He's kinda the Silas of interior trail running in a way, I gathered. RD is now Chris LaRouche, who is a great guy.

Yeah, it was pretty funny to be the tallest midget in that race, but it's probably the only way I'll ever take an overall in an ultra, so I had fun with it. Much beer drinking followed.

[GeezerSteve]

Much beer drinking followed.

Yup, sounds like an ultra

[Dantheman]

You've done some big ultras, haven't you?

Big Steve's ultra list makes me look like a chump, but yeah, about 10 races and self-supported jaunts in the marathon to 50-mile range.

Good luck in the mountain 50k. Remember, when there's big vert on the course/route it's not the up that will get you, it's the down.

[GeezerSteve]

Should we gather for a mag 50K in late October or early November, after mountain season/before ski season? Alternatively, ultramags consider joining us for our annual Enchantments thru-hike/run in early October/Lyall's Larch prime time.

[Andyski]

Should we gather for a mag 50K in late October or early November, after mountain season/before ski season? Alternatively, ultramags consider joining us for our annual Enchantments thru-hike/run in early October/Lyall's Larch prime time.

Was planning on doing the chants anyway, so I'm down!