Natural Gas Pipeline Threatening Vermonters

[Bottleman]

I may be pro-pipeline, but I am against eminent domain for cases like this.

This we can definitely agree upon.

[jamesp]

not only is the gas company Canadian, its French Canadian. You're doubly fked buddy.

[farmer]

I would be willing to bet that you are more likely to be run over by a natural gas vehicle (and how many of those do you see) than you are of being killed in the sort of pipeline explosion you're worried about.

Just to clarify, you are talking about an underground pipeline being installed, right? Because your hysteria makes it sound as if this is some massive 8' diameter pipe that you will have to crawl over to get to your front door.

[Blurred]

RUN!!! IT's TEH NATURAL GASSIN' LINES!! WE'RE GONNA DIE!!!! (posted from the warmth of his home which is heated with natural gas)

[fishbenk]

Sorry to hear about your situation bottleman. My community went through a deal a few years ago with a proposed LNG import terminal. My best advice is try to get the project stalled stalled stalled, while at time get the company to obligate as much money to the community as possible (extra money to fire dept for equipment and training for natural gas fires, restoration in other areas to make up for their habitat destruction, just pretty much every little thing you can think of). Hopefully when it goes to the permitting process you can get a bunch of interveners (Im not sure of the correct term) like the city, county, state governments or any other groups of people in the area. That seems to bog things down. In our situation, all the effort of slowing things down did not stop the permit from being allowed (unfortunately if they want their permit they will get it) but as the time past by, LNG became more economically profitable to export LNG than import and in the mean time the investment firm went bankrupt. Then the investors went to easier export projects. Bottom line is be a bitch so they go somewhere easier. Its a lot like a thief that will steal the unlocked bike next to the locked one. Sorry for the blog, hope this helps.

[Bottleman]

Tell that to the folks in San Bruno, CA. Low risk, high consequence.

I would be willing to bet that you are more likely to be run over by a natural gas vehicle (and how many of those do you see) than you are of being killed in the sort of pipeline explosion you're worried about.

Just to clarify, you are talking about an underground pipeline being installed, right? Because your hysteria makes it sound as if this is some massive 8' diameter pipe that you will have to crawl over to get to your front door.

[Bottleman]

To those that find me "hysterical" I offer you the following:

We'll be at your house tomorrow morning. Early. First we will remove every mature tree and all landscaping within fifty feet of the pipeline. You will never be able to plant a living thing in this fifty foot zone again BUT you will will have the pleasure of paying taxes on this land. Next, we will disrupt your life for months while we we use explosives to dig and place a 10" transmission pipeline a few feet from your house. If this pipeline explodes, you, your family and your house will vanish from the earth. But, you say, "I will be able to access this wonderful fuel!" Ummmm, no. You will have no access to the fuel because this is a transmission line and not a distribution line. "Ah yes, but I will become rich when VT Gas buys this easement!" Again, no. In the case of a one acre lot, homeowners would potentially pay a lawyer several thousand dollars to negotiate a deal worth a thousand dollars. YOU WILL ACTUALLY BE PAYING TO HAVE THIS PIPELINE ON YOUR PROPERTY. "Well, I don't want the pipeline so I'll just politely say no and go on my way!" Again, no. Eminent domain will be used to steal your land.

When do we start?!

[Vt-Freeheel]

natural-gas-could-be-lifesaver

[Bottleman]

That poor little company has a parent organization with assets in excess of 26 billion. Cry me a fucking river

To be clear, our community is 95% or more open farmland. There are plenty of routes that do not effect homes, wells or septic systems. VT Gas has thus far deemed most of these routes "too expensive."

[reganized]

Let's nix the use of north american natgas and jam a nuclear plant next door. Shit, there's not enough nat gas in Boston, split that pipe and run a line south!

Sent from my DROID RAZR using TGR Forums

[neufox47]

To be clear, our community is 95% or more open farmland. There are plenty of routes that do not effect homes, wells or septic systems. VT Gas has thus far deemed most of these routes "too expensive."

That's fucked, I'd think that would help avoid eminent domain though, as they have feasible alternatives. Sounds like the gas company is trying to fuck over everyone in the town. A thousand dollars is their offer??? You're home value is going to drop tens of thousands. Shit, a mature tree is worth a couple of grand. Not to mention the inconvenience.

Hey Farmer and Austin, what's your company line for that? These people should be happy to subsidise the gas line?

[Timberridge]

http://www.vtfishandwildlife.com/lib...of_Vermont.pdf

A few five lined skinks or spotted turtles found in the right of way should stop things cold. If it were me, I'd also toss in a boreal chorus frog or two to seal the deal.

[guroo270]

So, Austin, just because the gas itself is not dirty it is unfair to call it dirty gas?

http://www.dangersoffracking.com

[MontuckyFried]

So, Austin, just because the gas itself is not dirty it is unfair to call it dirty gas?

http://www.dangersoffracking.com

Whatever your thoughts are on fracking, it's not happening in Vermont as it's already banned there. Only the gas produced from it will pass through Vermont. Still doesn't change the fact that the gas itself is not dirty. Some people must be imagining a bunch of sludge going through these pipelines or something. Again, no matter your views of fracturing, it's disingenuous to call the gas itself dirty. Funny how much of a "not in my backyard" attitude people have. People don't mind using the oil/gas products, as long as it's produced somewhere else, right? Oh, except Vermont. Something tells me the environmentalist protesters don't mind driving their Subarus (which don't the best mpg, btw). I guess their cars get a free pass on their environmental impact and carbon footprint.

My views on fracking are quite different as I've lived around it for a long time, and it's been quite a good relationship. See: Fort Worth, where we've had tons of successful urban drilling. I've worked with people where it was LITERALLY in their backyard, and guess what? It was not a big deal. They dealt with the noise of the rig for a few weeks, then when it was completed, they were left with a quiet well about the size of a water heater, the driller restored the drill site better than before, bringing in landscapers, new grass, new trees, etc. It was a great deal for the landowners. Oh, and their water wells were tested and perfectly clean. The anti-frackers have done a good job scaring the general unknowing public (even the NAME "fracking" has a negative sound to it). All of a sudden, everybody thinks they're experts on the subject when they're mostly entirely misinformed.

This thread shouldn't be about fracking, though. It's about a gas transmission line going through Vermont. Don't get too hung up on the source of the gas. Besides, what has a larger environmental impact? Burning natural gas or oil? Something that could be helped by the good people of Vermont.

[Flyoverland Captive]

As a land owner, I sympathize with the OP. If some entity is going to alter my landscape, affect my ability to use my land, disrupt my peace and quiet, increase my risk of death or injury (no, it's not a huge risk, but it's certainly higher than before the line was installed), potentially affect my water table (pipes do leak, despite the rarity) and decrease the resale value of my home, all without just compensation, then I think I would have a right to be pissed.

Gas lines have to go somewhere, of course. NIMBY? Maybe... but if you want to put it in my backyard, against my wishes, then you had better make it worth my while financially.

[skiballs]

but if you want to put it in my backyard, against my wishes, then you had better make it worth my while financially.

Uum, how much to bury some dead hookers?

[Danno]

I sympathize with the OP, and I think some of you don't understand the character of Vermont, its history, its towns, its people, if you think that this is just a simple monetary "purchase an easement, everyone needs gas!" issue.

[Bottleman]

Because your hysteria makes it sound as if this is some massive 8' diameter pipe that you will have to crawl over to get to your front door.

You make an excellent point! Yes, the pipeline will be buried and as a result, roadside landowners won't have to crawl over ANYTHING on the way to their front door. You see, part of the project involves cutting down every tree and shrub within 50" of the line. These tress and shrubs cannot be replanted. Ever. Seems that these industrial grade pipelines don;t leak BUT the presence of viburnum roots pose a clear and present danger.

Let's make something else clear. The gas company can come back any time, without permission and dig up your land to do maintenance, increase the size of the pipe or even change the pipe so that it can carry a different type of fuel.

Fun times!

[grskier]

You need to lend yourself some credibility and edit your original post with just facts.

[Bottleman]

Sadly, VT gas has an answer for this. They use "directional drilling" so that they can place their pipelines UNDER sensitive species or artifacts.

http://www.vtfishandwildlife.com/lib...of_Vermont.pdf

A few five lined skinks or spotted turtles found in the right of way should stop things cold. If it were me, I'd also toss in a boreal chorus frog or two to seal the deal.

[hikesalot]

As a land owner, I sympathize with the OP. If some entity is going to alter my landscape, affect my ability to use my land, disrupt my peace and quiet, increase my risk of death or injury (no, it's not a huge risk, but it's certainly higher than before the line was installed), potentially affect my water table (pipes do leak, despite the rarity) and decrease the resale value of my home, all without just compensation, then I think I would have a right to be pissed.

Gas lines have to go somewhere, of course. NIMBY? Maybe... but if you want to put it in my backyard, against my wishes, then you had better make it worth my while financially.

I would be really upset about this too if it was my property. If there's farmland it could go through, put it there. I wouldn't want to live near the thing, I know that. And the financial offer seems ridiculously low. Sorry you have to deal with this OP.

[Bottleman]

Fact. From the VT Gas website.

Vermont Gas is required to meet or exceed all applicable safety codes throughout its operations. While these stringent safety codes allow for the installation of a transmission line within a few feet of residences, Vermont Gas seeks, when possible, to use a 25-foot minimum setback.

Several of the routes currently on the table place this pipeline within a few feet of homes.

Fact:

http://www.fox44abc22yourvoice.com/s...omes-evacuated

My favorite quote: "Although this incident will be investigated, Vermont gas says accidents like this one happen about 15 times a year. "

Reassuring, no?!

You need to lend yourself some credibility and edit your original post with just facts.

[Moeghoul]

Fact. From the VT Gas website.

Vermont Gas is required to meet or exceed all applicable safety codes throughout its operations. While these stringent safety codes allow for the installation of a transmission line within a few feet of residences, Vermont Gas seeks, when possible, to use a 25-foot minimum setback.

Several of the routes currently on the table place this pipeline within a few feet of homes.

Fact:

http://www.fox44abc22yourvoice.com/s...omes-evacuated

My favorite quote: "Although this incident will be investigated, Vermont gas says accidents like this one happen about 15 times a year. "

Reassuring, no?!

Petition signed, B-man, I'm not against pipelining NG around the US, but doing it on the cheap to the detriment of property owners and communities is bullshit. I can't understand why this pipeline can't be set up for distribution and provide VT with another source of NG, but I'm not up on the details of this.

[Danno]

OP, your link still doesn't work (at least not for me). You're bitching about this here on TGR but the one thing you have actually asked anyone to do, they can't do, because you haven't given them a proper link.

[jamesp]

you gave an example of a 1 acre lot, them offering $1,000 for an easement. What's the value of the property? & how big is the easement? ie right through the middle, or cutting across a corner? Are they offering less than a prorated portion of the assessed value?