Natural Gas Pipeline Threatening Vermonters

[Bottleman]

Cross post from the ECRC. My wife, myself and our neighbors could really use the assistance of the Forum. To summarize, a Canadian owned gas company is attempting to route a natural gas transmission line through Middlebury, Cornwall and Shoreham, Vermont (and under Lake Champlain) on its way to International Paper (subsidiary of a 26 billion dollar multi-national corporation) in Fort Ticonderoga, New York. NOBODY in our town of 1200 would have access to this gas but the gas company is threatening eminent domain to place a 10” transmission line within several feet of homes, wells and septic systems. This project would permanently alter the landscape of our town (no trees can be planted within fifty feet of the line and mature trees will be removed), place our lives in jeopardy (the blast radius of such a transmission pipe is several hundred feet – in an emergency our home would be vaporized) and allow fracked gas to pass through Vermont for the next 100 years.

Please take a moment to read the following change.org petition and if you were willing to add your name to the list of the signatures I would be most appreciative. We are concerned for the safety of ourselves, our friends and our town as a whole and obviously on a broader scale, the state, the region and the world. This is big business saying and doing anything to make profits and destroy the environment in the process.
https://www.change.org/petitions/mid...share_petition

There are any number of people on the forum who can verify that I am a complete dooshbag and an utter FAIL at skiing but I do buy drinks for others from time to time so if you sign the petition, you might have that going for you. Which would be nice

My apologies for the spam – if this were not so important I would not ask for help. If you want this post removed I will do so.

[Tippster]

Good Luck. Pretty sure Vermont will take the money grab these days, however. Would be glad to be proven wrong!

[Bottleman]

There's no money. That's the crazy part. Increased tax revenues BUT this will be ameliorated by decreases in the town list as properties are devalued. Will cause towns to spend more money in maintaining roads, building projects etc. Any claims of "you'll all get rich!" are simply smoke and mirrors to fill the coffers of two great big 'ol companies - one in Canada, the other a New York Paper Mill with a parent company worth 26 billion.

[Mazderati]

Link doesn't work.

[Danno]

Your link doesn't work.

Do you have anybody fighting on your side (lawyers, for ex)? Or is the petition it?

[Tippster]

Nonono. I meant the State Gov. will get a chunk of change for permits etc., there will be new construction employment to trumpet, etc.

[stfu&gbtw]

Can you post a link to the petition FOR the pipeline?

I do love me some 8.5x11.

[Bottleman]

New link. My apologies.

https://www.change.org/petitions/mid...share_petition

[MontuckyFried]

The other side of the coin:
http://www.7dvt.com/2013north-countr...d-be-lifesaver
This pipeline could not only save a ton of jobs, but will bring a lot of jobs to the area in building it. I've done pipeline right-of-way work, and I've never seen eminent domain being pulled for that. Not saying it doesn't happen, but I haven't dealt with it myself. That's because usually the landowners are pretty dang cooperative with the nice fat check the gas companies offer them for the usage of a small strip of their land. Squabbling about 50' of right of way? Fifty feet is nothing abnormal and about like power line rights-of-way.

...and allow fracked gas to pass through Vermont for the next 100 years.

You don't really need to worry about that eeevil "fracked gas." Fracked gas is no different than regular gas.

Yes, I'm biased, but too often I've seen communities get in a tizzy over nothing, when they're simply misinformed. For example, the town I'm working in now got their panties in a wad that we had an office there. They thought we'd be fracking their beautiful springs and nearby mountains, when the reality was that we weren't drilling anywhere near there. We were drilling far, far away in the badlands. We just simply had an office in town, being the nearest semblance of civilization. Somehow a rumor got started, and that got everybody going, and entirely wrongly so. Now the people are happy with the little economic boost the town received with no drilling nearby. Win-win.

[Bottleman]

Shoot we have doctors, lawyers, Indian chiefs and what you fighting like crazy. In our little town the select board and planning commission are unanimously opposed. In fact, there is widespread opposition across the state. Sadly, the process so wildly favors the utility companies, landowners and town governments have very little input. The wife and I have spent nearly six months researching this and getting up to speed - it will be an uphill battle but I think we actually have a chance to beat these bastards if the story goers national. Getting Middlebury College to change their tune on the project would be a great step as well.

Your link doesn't work.

Do you have anybody fighting on your side (lawyers, for ex)? Or is the petition it?

[Mazderati]

Can you get Cailey signed up on the board?

[Bottleman]

Dood. You live in Montana. Big Country. We live in Vermont. Historic settlement occured along roads. There are DOZENS of 19th century homes within 25 feet of the road in a two or three mile stretch. The gas company is threatening to use eminent domain to place this TRANSMISSION LINE within a few feet of our houses. If it blows up, we die. Get it?!

The other side of the coin:
http://www.7dvt.com/2013north-countr...d-be-lifesaver
This pipeline could not only save a ton of jobs, but will bring a lot of jobs to the area in building it. I've done pipeline right-of-way work, and I've never seen imminent domain being pulled for that. Not saying it doesn't happen, but I haven't dealt with it myself. That's because usually the landowners are pretty dang cooperative with the nice fat check the gas companies offer them for the usage of a small strip of their land. Squabbling about 50' of right of way? Fifty feet is nothing abnormal and about like power line rights-of-way.


You don't really need to worry about that eeevil "fracked gas." Fracked gas is no different than regular gas.

Yes, I'm biased, but too often I've seen communities get in a tizzy over nothing, when they're simply misinformed. For example, the town I'm working in now got their panties in a wad that we had an office there. They thought we'd be fracking their beautiful springs and nearby mountains, when the reality was that we weren't drilling anywhere near there. We were drilling far, far away in the badlands. We just simply had an office in town, being the nearest semblance of civilization. Somehow a rumor got started, and that got everybody going, and entirely wrongly so. Now the people are happy with the little economic boost the town received with no drilling nearby. Win-win.

[Bottleman]

And if you think you're cool because you're drilling in the Badlands you're not. Jeebus.

[MontuckyFried]

If the community is truly unanimously opposed, then that should be a fairly powerful force, and the company would be better off just going around instead of dealing with a PR/legal battle. Apparently Vermont Gas does have the power to pull eminent domain, but that would be a last resort. The only things I saw about that, were people just saying "I won't sell, they'll have to use eminent domain on me to take my land" and more stuff like that.

The sucky truth is that if they're going to pull e.d. on you, then you're better off just taking their offer when it's high enough (Right of Way prices ARE negotiable, ya know), instead of waiting for the government to "take" it from you and give you "fair market value" which is always a crock. Just negotiate well, then take your check from Vermont Gas and run.

[MontuckyFried]

...The gas company is threatening to use eminent domain to place this TRANSMISSION LINE within a few feet of our houses. If it blows up, we die. Get it?!

Calm down, Nancy. Before getting your panties in a wad, why don't you post a link to the proposed right of way (ALWAYS public info, and plats are quite easy to obtain), and show them in relation to your house.

[Bottleman]

The payouts that have promised are a few thousand dollars AT BEST. You do understand that our properties will be worth ZERO if we have a transmission line placed with 5 feet of our homes, no?! The cheapest, easiest route for this company to take is along the roads and that's what they want to do. If that's done, all of us along the route will not only have properties of zero value but if the pipeline explodes (and yes, they do explode) we will die. That's not sensationalism, that's the truth.

Again, it's a very different game in the big country of the West. Us provincial SOBS live in small villages with houses clustered close to roads and major intersections. It's what makes Vermont cute

[Bottleman]

From the Vermont Gas website.

Vermont Gas is required to meet or exceed all applicable safety codes throughout its operations. While these stringent safety codes allow for the installation of a transmission line within a few feet of residences, Vermont Gas seeks, when possible, to use a 25-foot minimum setback.

[MontuckyFried]

Oh, and the first phase of the pipeline has been rerouted due to community feedback...
http://www.wptz.com/news/vermont-new...z/-/index.html
Sounds like a major voice of the opposition is just anti-gas, period.

“This pipeline is a plan to bring dirty, fracked gas from Canada into Vermont,” said Sara Mehalick of Rising Tide Vermont, an organization working to limit reliance on fossil fuels.

"Dirty, fracked gas?" This chick obviously doesn't know wtf she's talking about. And besides, this is in an effort to switch the factory from oil to gas, which burns much cleaner, and is a more environmentally sound choice, not to mention cheaper (the primary objective, of course).

And once again, you're uniformed, as Middlebury WILL be able to tie into the pipeline for their own use, as I'd imagine other communities along they way will also.

Bringing natural gas to Addison County would save homeowners who tap into the network an estimated $2,000 a year, Wark said.

Why wouldn't Vermont Gas want to add more customers?! That's more money for them!

[grubbers]

Calm down, Nancy. Before getting your panties in a wad, why don't you post a link to the proposed right of way (ALWAYS public info, and plats are quite easy to obtain), and show them in relation to your house.

http://addisonnaturalgas.com/wp-cont...v-Feb-2013.pdf

[Bottleman]

Step away from the bong. I live in Cornwall, not in Middlebury. We will not get gas. To call me uniformed is ridiculous. I have been eating, breathing and living this shit for six months. You obviously work for a gas company and you're toeing the party line. I get it. But don't try to tell me that you know more about this project in Vermont after 10 minutes of research than I have learned in months and months of study.

Vermont gas does not want customers in Middlebury. They want IP in New York. It would be their biggest customer by leaps and bounds. Hell, IP is even paying for this! Phase One gets gas to Middlebury. End of discussion. Phase two ruins several communites in order to provide gas for New York. You dig? If you want to engage in a debate you need to spend a lot more time doing research.

Oh, and the first phase of the pipeline has been rerouted due to community feedback...
http://www.wptz.com/news/vermont-new...z/-/index.html
Sounds like a major voice of the opposition is just anti-gas, period.

"Dirty, fracked gas?" This chick obviously doesn't know wtf she's talking about. And besides, this is in an effort to switch the factory from oil to gas, which burns much cleaner, and is a more environmentally sound choice, not to mention cheaper (the primary objective, of course).

And once again, you're uniformed, as Middlebury WILL be able to tie into the pipeline for their own use, as I'd imagine other communities along they way will also.

Why wouldn't Vermont Gas want to add more customers?! That's more money for them!

[Bottleman]

If the community is truly unanimously opposed, then that should be a fairly powerful force, and the company would be better off just going around instead of dealing with a PR/legal battle. .

We agree here. VT Gas has taken a different position.

[MontuckyFried]

Most of the opposition I'm reading about seems to be less about proximity to homes, and more about environmental opposition. I can understand you not wanting them within a few feet of your house, but I believe the environmental issues to be way exaggerated. I keep seeing references online to the "dirty, fracked gas," "climate change," and fossil fuels." That alone shows the real opposition to the entire issue. Well, since the environmentalists are so against natural gas and fracking all the way around, let the paper mills keep on using their dirty oil, instead of clean burning gas.

But hey, Vermont is its own state, and should have every right to work for/against this pipeline. I may be pro-pipeline, but I am against eminent domain for cases like this.

[ate'em]

The other side of the coin:

is that you are getting coin from this very industry.

fucking dishonest scumbags. same stuff in my valley in Western Colorado. always a paid PR nozzle of the industry ready to give all us ignorant locals good advice about how reasonable the gas industry is.

fracking is a shit process that pollutes. that's why all us outside the industry call it dirty. gas industry would frack their own grandma for a few barrels of profit.

but thanks for providing 'balance' to the discussion.

[irul&ublo]

Dood. You live in Montana. Big Country. We live in Vermont. Historic settlement occured along roads. There are DOZENS of 19th century homes within 25 feet of the road in a two or three mile stretch. The gas company is threatening to use eminent domain to place this TRANSMISSION LINE within a few feet of our houses. If it blows up, we die. Get it?!

you'll go quick

[Bottleman]

you'll go quick

There is that to be said Was always hoping to die differently but hey, at least I won't know what hit me