Natural Gas Pipeline Threatening Vermonters

[concretejungle]

those dirty frenchies will be pumping poutine down that thing before you know it.

I was going to say tap into it and gas for free. This only reinforces that that is the correct conclusion.

[Bottleman]

More sensationalism. Two gas line breaks in Vermont within 8 days.

http://www.fox44abc22yourvoice.com/s...omes-evacuated

http://www.wcax.com/story/22071672/g...s-in-st-albans

Does this explain why someone would not want a transmission line running next to their home?

[iceman]

Most of the time these things follow the path of least resistance. The company doesn't really "want" to put the pipeline there, they just routed it there because it seemed cheaper and easier than other routes. If you make it harder and more expensive and more negative they'll most likely just go another way. All you can do is basically what you're doing, just stay after it and don't give up, that's what they're hoping for.

[Bottleman]

Seconded and thirded. Thanks for understanding the play. That's the gambit in a nutshell.

While I have you here I have to ask - do you really ski in jeans?

Most of the time these things follow the path of least resistance. The company doesn't really "want" to put the pipeline there, they just routed it there because it seemed cheaper and easier than other routes. If you make it harder and more expensive and more negative they'll most likely just go another way. All you can do is basically what you're doing, just stay after it and don't give up, that's what they're hoping for.

[iceman]

What is this "ski" of which you speak?

[Timberridge]

Most of the time these things follow the path of least resistance. The company doesn't really "want" to put the pipeline there, they just routed it there because it seemed cheaper and easier than other routes. If you make it harder and more expensive and more negative they'll most likely just go another way. All you can do is basically what you're doing, just stay after it and don't give up, that's what they're hoping for.

One flaw in this logic. It's a dynamic system, and you can't assume that the people that live along Option #2 are any less dedicated to the fight than the Bottlepeople, et al living along Option #1. The gas company has likely already hired some very well paid consultants to determine the path of least resistance and is not going to delay the project to probe the battlefront.

[iceman]

Well you have to start with the understanding that the pipeline is going to be built and that you might not get everything you want. But defending your interests and not simply rolling over in the face of adversity is almost certainly going to get you a better result than simply ignoring shit.

[Bottleman]

If folks were afraid of fighting seemingly unwinnable battles we'd still have a king and queen.

The well payed consultants planning the routes are apparently a company based in Florida. They have never stepped foot on the land here. No, I am not making that up.

Edited below to show that the Engineering company does have an office in Vermont but it part of a much larger global corporations with offices in many states.

[Bottleman]

You make a good point. With that said, the gas company is already in semi-retreat in that resistance has been far, far greater than expected. The arrogance of the company in question is really beyond belief and they seem taken off guard that they are not being greeted with bouquets of roses.

The petition on change.org specifically addresses Middlebury College and their stance on the project. Were Middlebury (the largest employer in the region) to withdraw its support or make their support contingent upon certain standards, that would be a great victory for those of us potentially facing the eminent domain process.

One flaw in this logic. It's a dynamic system, and you can't assume that the people that live along Option #2 are any less dedicated to the fight than the Bottlepeople, et al living along Option #1. The gas company has likely already hired some very well paid consultants to determine the path of least resistance and is not going to delay the project to probe the battlefront.

[grubbers]

The well payed consultants planning the routes are apparently a company based in Florida. They have never stepped foot on the land here. No, I am not making that up.

Nope, it's based in North Ferrisburgh.

[Bottleman]

Not what we were told in one of our meetings. The engineering firm may be based there but the route planners (at least those responsible for the maps we received late last year) were apparently based in Florida.

Nope, it's based in North Ferrisburgh.

[Bottleman]

Coler and Colantonio is the engineering firm. They have offices in Vermont. They were recently involved in a buyout by a larger firm.

http://www.chacompanies.com/index.cf...81B4BDBDE74B88

We were told that much of the original mapping was farmed out to different offices. The Florida connection seems crazy but that's what we were told and in checking, CHA Consulting does have offices in Tampa and Deland. Perhaps this is why the initial route ran through a Revolutionary War graveyard, under the steps of the 1803 Congregational Church and through the town green. Does seem like someone who actually spent time on the ground would find a different route, no?

[grrrr]

I would go with anti-tank mines. If you can't secure any, a plain old "Minefield" sign should deter them. Jump on it before the farmers do.

[Bottleman]

I'm thinking of just chaining myself to a tree and waiting for the apocalypse.

[grrrr]

Meh, Been done. Got to mix it up.

[Timberridge]

I'm all for fighting for things you believe in. Just know that you've already been targeted as the path of least resistance.

To get real traction with any protest such as this, your elected officials need to feel that they won't be re-elected for another term if this line goes in.

Putting signs on your lawn, picketing the gas company HQ, and laying in front of bulldozers won't do it. Local TV and news reporters need to be convinced that this is a worthwhile fight putting pressure on your elected officials.

[schuss]

I'm betting the firm has more experience out west, where very few things are historic or prized and the "communities" they run through aren't very strong compared to the easily-bribed elected officials. Whole different ballgame in New England.

That said, if it isn't going to supply VT and it's for a NY paper plant, why the crap is it running through VT?

[Bottleman]

On it and getting good coverage. WCAX did a spot last night and we have had great coverage in the Addison Independent. Seven days has written about the project on a couple of occasions. Our town officials are unanimously supportive and state reps and senators have been hearing from folks regularly. Vermont is still small enough so that you can actually meet face to face with your elected officials and that has been done. Having the students at Middlebury College chime in has been helpful as well.

[Bottleman]

FTW!

Actually, SOME people in Vermont will get gas from phase One of the project, thought not every community that hosts the line will get gas. Phase Two (running from Middlebury to NY) is the sticky wicket because 99% of the gas transmitted through this pipe is headed to a single company in NY.

The answer to why, is of course that it's the cheapest easiest way to get gas to that big money customer.

I'm betting the firm has more experience out west, where very few things are historic or prized and the "communities" they run through aren't very strong compared to the easily-bribed elected officials. Whole different ballgame in New England.

That said, if it isn't going to supply VT and it's for a NY paper plant, why the crap is it running through VT?

[grubbers]

We were told that much of the original mapping was farmed out to different offices.

I'm not too familiar with the other companies involved in the project so you're probably right about that, but I used to be employed at the one that produced these maps. I do know for a fact that they were responsible for evaluating all environmental impacts along the route. They probably couldn't take the job of originally planning the pipeline route as many of the employees live in the towns where the pipeline would be traveling through, so there could have been a potential conflict of interest. I had limited involvement in the project so I can't comment on it too much because 1) I don't remember most specifics and 2) I feel it would be a bit unprofessional. I will say that at this point I'm neither for nor against this project, I can see both sides of the argument.

[Bottleman]

Wondered if you might have had some personal insight into the project as a result of your posts. I respect and appreciate your "not for or against" stance.

When we first got involved in trying to alter the route our sole concern was keeping the pipeline a safe distance from residences and wells. With so much open acreage in Cornwall it did not seem that this was asking much. ONE of the newly proposed routes does follow such a greenfields approach but another still places much of the route along the roads and in close proximity to homes. Because we cannot get VT Gas to agree with what we believe are reasonable setbacks we have been left no choice but to take a more aggressive approach.

[schuss]

Yeah, it sounds like it's just piss-poor planning. There's plenty of demand (I imagine) for natural gas, as well as plenty of infrastructure that may benefit from it, but running it straight through towns when Northern VT is mostly empty is just straight stupid.

[Danno]

Well you have to start with the understanding that the pipeline is going to be built and that you might not get everything you want. But defending your interests and not simply rolling over in the face of adversity is almost certainly going to get you a better result than simply ignoring shit.

exactly. I'm involved with a billion plus dollar pipeline project, and you can be damn sure that resistance has an effect.

[vt_ski]

I find it kind of odd that with all the other communities this pipeline runs through and the thousands of customers it serves, there hasn't been much discussion about it. I'm sure there were some NIMBY arguments when it was first proposed, but this line runs from the CA border, through St. Albans, Burlington, Hinesburgh, etc. I don't remember hearing that population bitch about it going through their towns. The whole point of routing this thing through population centers is to provide an alternative fuel source to businesses and residential customers. I should disclose that my Dad has worked for VT Gas for the last 25 years, so I guess you could call me a little bit biased.

[jamesp]

Wind farms in Vermont are another can of worms. Just look up some of the news stories about the Kingdom Community Wind project that was completed last year.

so if Vermont doesn't want wind farms, doesn't want gas lines, where exactly do they want to get energy from? Cut down forests & burn wood like they did in the 1800s? Or are there just lots of vocal NIMBY's?