4FRNT Renegade ~ Hand built in SLC.

**4FRNT** · 03-19-2012, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by 50degrees

Any demo info is greatly appreciated. :-)

Try sending an email to our BC rep, Andrew Clough. He should have some Rens, and can let you know if there are public demos, or a day you could borrow them and take them out. He'd also be able to tell you if there were shops that still had demos available:

andrew.clough@4frnt.com

**Tupp-** · 03-19-2012, 06:46 PM

Thanks, Sent him a message. No Rens but hopefully I'll get on a pair of Hoji's!

**50degrees** · 03-19-2012, 07:24 PM

Originally Posted by 4FRNT

Try sending an email to our BC rep, Andrew Clough. He should have some Rens, and can let you know if there are public demos, or a day you could borrow them and take them out. He'd also be able to tell you if there were shops that still had demos available:

andrew.clough@4frnt.com

Thanks for the contact details! Looks like Tupp is already all over it!
Was hoping to skip out from the office this week but looking like I'll be part of the weekend slog instead.

**DudeLebowSKI** · 03-20-2012, 12:58 PM

Anyone know how the skis come tuned as far as edge/base bevel? I just got my skis back from getting tuned (for the first time) and holy shit do they suck now! SOOO grabby right in front of the foot, especially on harder snow. They even grab in mixed snow conditions. Like I mean damn near unskiable. In one day, I banged the skis together/crossed my tips/chipped off more top sheet than I had in the entire time I've owned the skis. I tried a gummy stone with no results. Tried some detuning in the tips with no results.

I took them back and it was quite obvious that the base had some high areas and that the inside of one of the skis was even ever so slightly concave. Why didn't I feel this before the tune?

I am guessing that the high spot in the base was previously high enough that I didnt notice the very slightly concave area on the inside. When the shop ground them, they didn't ground them completely flat therefore bringing that convex areas closer to the snow and therefore making the ski less forgiving?

I don't know but hopefully they can figure it out. It can't be in my mind. The difference is like night and day. Anyone ever have an experience like this before? What kind of tune is recommended for a fully rockered ski of this type?

EDIT: I read something in another thread..Could it be a crappy base structure? The shop I got them tuned at doesnt have a tuning machine. I believe everthing is done using stone grinders and sanders.

**auvgeek** · 03-20-2012, 01:22 PM

I was curious about this as well. I have a similar experience, though the opposite effect, with my 191 Bros, which I just had tuned at a reputable shop. Shop tech said it was typical to go with a 1*/1*, and being the JONG I am when it comes to tech work, I assumed they knew what they were doing. The skis feel much looser underfoot and ski totally differently until they get way up on edge at speed. I just found out that the recommended bevel is 1*/2*, so the shop was wrong. Not gonna ask for my money back or anything, but I really miss the way they skied with the factory tune. Hope it can be sorted out next time I need them tuned.

Anyway, I'd like to have my Rens done at some point soon (or maybe I'll wait to the beginning of next season), and I'm curious what the recommended bevels are. After the experience with the Fats and now your experience, I'm gonna be a little more cautious and informed about getting work done on my stiff, fat, rockered skis.

ETA: It seems like 1/2 might be the ticket, as 1/1 felt really loose to me - though maybe 1/1 works perfectly for the Ren's shape. I wonder if yours were 1/3...?

**JRainey** · 03-20-2012, 01:32 PM

I've had something going on like this season and last. I originally got a pair of pre productions skis because I was going to south america, those skis ruled. After a couple of binding rip outs (one the fault of a chilean shop) 4frnt hooked up another pair. Those pair have been just like you've explained the whole time i've had them. It was kind of a bummer because I stopped taking them out for normal days because they were grabby, but the we fine on pow days just when the snow was looser on groomers. But they take so much energy (and tight fucking boots) to not break my ankles trying to throw them sideways on sketchy hard so.

I know "They're a powder ski", but the other pair I had ruled in everything, while these have been relegate to pow days.

I've had them baseground 4 times i think, de-tuned, and it's not really better. Using a true bar I can tell there are minor concavities which exist on the base. Maybe they just need to get ground more, or maybe they need like a 2 degree base bevel or something extreme.

I tweeked my knee a few weeks ago and have been using my AT setup because its softer, and now i'm just using it because it works well everywhere and so the pressure is off for the renies, but I'd like to get them in the same state as my first pair. I guess i'll just have to keep plugging away.

Ultimately I think because they are so fat and torsionally rigid, a fucked up tune is felt a lot more. But 188 WC gs skis feel looser than thees on groomers.

**DudeLebowSKI** · 03-20-2012, 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by JRainey

But they take so much energy (and tight fucking boots) to not break my ankles trying to throw them sideways on sketchy hard so.

I know "They're a powder ski", but the other pair I had ruled in everything, while these have been relegate to pow days.

I've had them baseground 4 times i think, de-tuned, and it's not really better. Using a true bar I can tell there are minor concavities which exist on the base. Maybe they just need to get ground more, or maybe they need like a 2 degree base bevel or something extreme.

EXACTLY! You know when you are bombing down the groomer just to get back to the lift? I honestly had to ski somewhat sideways the whole time just to keep the front part of the ski from grabbing unpredictably. As long as I felt the front part of the ski fully engaged/hooking I feltsomewhat in control but the second I let the ski run, it was a crap shoot as to what was going to happen. By the time I got to the bottom my knees and ankles were worked from sideways tork.

Solutions anyone? My skis are back in the shop but I am sad to hear yours have been in 4 times with no solutions. Marshal was stating in that other thread that shitty base structure could be the culprit?

**Bird Blaster** · 03-20-2012, 03:19 PM

So what I should take from this is to not tune my rens from their factory tune?

What have ppl been getting that does work?

**BskiP** · 03-20-2012, 07:08 PM

Get it tuned with the smallest amount of structure possible. It's not the edges, most shops standard tune lays down a pattern that goes pretty up and down the ski. Lighter, less directional the structure, the better the ren will ski!

**allTandA** · 03-20-2012, 08:23 PM

FWIW- I just (finally) did a bazillion base repairs and ground mine. being unsure of the 'factory tune' I went 1/1 with minimal structure. then gave the front 25cm and back 15-20cm a fairly aggressive de-tune. Gotta say they don't rail the groomed quite as well as "factory"

curious to hear what 4FRNT has to say...... get out the sitzmark and let us know BROsef!

**4FRNT** · 03-20-2012, 10:48 PM

I'm on it.

I'm not a tune-nerd, and I don't want to give you bad advice, so I'm double checking with the White Room peeps to make sure I get you guys the correct info.

**DudeLebowSKI** · 03-21-2012, 08:41 AM

I took then to a different shop that has a wintersteiger and a Montana. They are going to grind them flat, fix the structure, and put a 1.5 degree base bevel for the entire length. We'll see what happens.

**JRainey** · 03-21-2012, 08:46 AM

I'll be interested to hear how it turns out.

**4FRNT** · 03-21-2012, 10:34 AM

We tune them at 1/1 out of the factory with a really minimal base structure.

If you are noticing a lot of hook still, you can move to a 2 degree base bevel to help with that.

**gramboh** · 03-21-2012, 03:18 PM

Had the standard 1/1 done by Crystal Glide in North Vancouver on mine twice now and they ski great/predictably. Didn't ask for anything special as far as base structure goes.

**Bird Blaster** · 03-21-2012, 03:54 PM

Just wanted to ask. Who is using their RENS as a daily driver? How are they on ice, hardpack and moguls?

**JRainey** · 03-22-2012, 01:46 AM

Before I got my tweaked out pair I was and they ruled. Moguls took a little forward thinking because they were stiff and fat, but generally they kicked ass.

**Mustonen** · 03-22-2012, 05:19 AM

I've been using mine as a daily driver for most of the past 2 seasons. Never really meant to, just found myself always reaching for them and I'll sell a ski if I'm not skiing it - ended up with a quiver of one sort of by accident. Pretty stoked on them. I think they're lots of fun on hardpack as long as you can dig an edge in. They suck on ice. I avoid moguls where possible and flail when I find myself in them - the Rens slide and slither around just fine for me in them with as much aplomb as I'm capable of otherwise, though I'm no kind of zipperline mogul skier.

I don't know anything about this tweaky tune business. I plan on getting mine flattened and tuned up as soon as the local shop gets their hands on a wide enough stone. I generally keep the edges tack sharp tip to tail and have never noticed a problem - always predictable even when out of their element. They're definitely a little base high here and there. We'll see....

**huge-go** · 03-23-2012, 02:40 PM

I've been using mine everyday this season, and I love them. i actually love them on hardpack. I've found that they are one of the easiest skis I've ever skied in terms of controlling your speed, because you can carve, or you can just throw them sideways and depending on how hard you push, you just have this controlled slide with absolutely no worry about possibly hooking a tip or tail at high speeds and exploding. Ice is never really enjoyable regardless of what ski you're on; these will survive it, and I don't expect anything more. Same with moguls.

**whyturn** · 03-23-2012, 03:39 PM

Drive it wherever and it handles everything easily. Its impressive how versatile they are

**supercharge** · 03-23-2012, 06:48 PM

Hi,

Newschoolers is more or less an adolescent joke so I've decided to migrate here definitely. I'm demoing the 186 Renegade in the next week. I can ski any ski anywhere, and love skiing aggressively, pushing speeds beyond the level of cautious. I've driven 215 DH's down mogully, icy bowls, and symmetrical park skis through knee-deep powder. I'm out-skiing the hell out the Line EP Opus, which feels like a toy. Although I have a demo soon, would it be a mistake to get the 196 Ren? I will have narrower, shorter, more traditional sticks for the lazy/terrible days. I'm only 155lbs and 23 years old, skinny at 6'4" but a very strong skier. I feel like a 196 would be nice for front/back stability. I'm always looking for bigger cliffs to huck and will be moving to Golden next winter for some real skiing, none of this Sunshine Village crap (excluding the Dive and the West).

**auvgeek** · 03-23-2012, 06:56 PM

Well, at 5'11", 165# and your age, I think the 186 is perfect for trees and some open bowl stuff. But I'm super weak after injuries and I also have bigger skis for wide open stuff. If I were to drop 10# and get back into the shape I was in, I think I'd still choose the 186 for where and how I ski. So I would say it could go either way, and really depends on how much you want to ski trees vs alpine.

**allTandA** · 03-23-2012, 08:46 PM

superbrah-

1st off eat a muthafucking sammich. At your age I was 6'2" and 165 and stupid skinny. jeebus man

2nd midthirties and 190 ish lbs and ski strong, huck 40'ers, and charge. I would see the 186 being plenty of ski, mine are the first ski under 192-6 I have been on in 10ish years and it is way stable.