Alright admit it......who sucks at moguls. I'll admit it, I suck.

[StuntCok]

I shouldn't be surprised this is degenerating into chest beating and dick waving, hate this about tgr, hate it.


So I got my park cred the other day and we were working on some nose butters. Just lifting our heels and pivoting off the front of our skis. Not something I mess around with in general. Anyway I took that little heel flicking motion into the bumps and was pretty amazed at how it got my tips engaged in the new turn. You get your tips in early and you can make any turn at any speed you like. I don't know if it's a cheat but it sure does work.
.

I have also been surprised to find how park skiing has helped me in other aspects of skiing and not just air awareness or recovery skills. I have also found that butters and presses have helped my ability to engage and disengage the tips of my skis, while rails and boxes have done wonders for controlled edging. TGR may focus on BC skiing but the skills to shred the BC are learned in the resort, where we can do lap after lap skiing on our burliest gear.

[BushwackerinPA]

I shouldn't be surprised this is degenerating into chest beating and dick waving, hate this about tgr, hate it.

Josh I would ski with you and take your advice on anything you've got to say about my skiing. Lot of other maggots would benefit as well.

So I got my park cred the other day and we were working on some nose butters. Just lifting our heels and pivoting off the front of our skis. Not something I mess around with in general. Anyway I took that little heel flicking motion into the bumps and was pretty amazed at how it got my tips engaged in the new turn. You get your tips in early and you can make any turn at any speed you like. I don't know if it's a cheat but it sure does work.

In other news, my hands are such shit. I have to continually remind (yell at) myself to keep them in my peripheral vision. When I do, my hips come forward all proper and my turns get round and not so shove and recover.

This bump skiing thing is like playing the drums or the piano left and right hands, different things to combine in rhythm. But the keyboard is constantly changing size and shape. Really a great fun challenge.

no such thing as cheating shera . That little flick helps us back pedal our feet which is exactly what I was showing in the dolphin video just at higher level and lateral transfer of what your doing in one part is what good skiing is about. The movement patterns of skiing never change we just change how long its done, for how much, how many times, and at what time in the turn aka DIRT. Duration, Intensity, Rate, Timing. Really the turns we do in ppowder, bumps, steeps, GS turning are using the same fundamental movements.

A tip for your hand if you havent used it yet, is this. A hands being in front is movement and a not a pose or position even though it may appear that way. EVerytime we pole touch we have to drive that hand down the hill so it leads us though the turn(that catchy strong inside half that gets though around so much) and as we are driving that hand are other hand should be pole swinging already. Touch, PUNCH, swing, touch PUNCH swing.

If you still having issue with you hands dropping to your side you can try this. Go spend a half a morning doing what I call american gladitor turns. ski with your pole held in front across your body but always move you inside hand forward and up though the turn. ie turning right move your right hand forward and vice a versa. Basically as if you were jousting another american gladitior (great way to get kids to do this drill).

I see alot of maggots including some very well know PRO coaches who rotate their outside hand though the turn which causes their shoulders and upper body, and hips to twist away from being square to the hill it causes loss of balance on our outside ski and makes it tough to start the next turn. Not saying you do it but its common thing for alot of people who ski alot of powder because we can get away with it there.


I do not want chest thumping battle trust me.

[SterlingSpikeDancer]

Good points all around, but I think that this clearly defines the difference between PSIA technique and competition technique. The two do not seem so similar, but I agree that there are different strokes for different folks.

Back to the point at hand, Drunken Frenchman is finally getting some solid lines in and with the little nightly fresheners has gone from frozen dog shit to a solid run in about 9 days. Thank god for that. And She-Ra, we have to hit a bump day sometime this year. I want to pick your brain in person about how to train my mini-maggette. Until the snow flies enough to hit the fun steeps, keep working on those moguls!

[CarveMan]

Good points all around, but I think that this clearly defines the difference between PSIA technique and competition technique. The two do not seem so similar, but I agree that there are different strokes for different folks.

Comp technique is probably not sustainable for mere mortals with mortal bodies.

[ulty_guy]

Good points all around, but I think that this clearly defines the difference between PSIA technique and competition technique. The two do not seem so similar, but I agree that there are different strokes for different folks.

Totally true and plenty of evidence in other sports. Back in my youth I used to be a very above average junior tennis player and just for extra dough during college, got my certification and taught yummy mummies to swing during my summers ().

The techniques that are going to work best for 95% of the population kinda go out the window when you start to deal with higher forces, stronger athletes, and more ball speed and spin. Sure, tons of things still translate but try explaining how Nadal can even hit half of his shots (great drugs) within the confines of traditional instruction, it doesn't work.

Now, the one arena I definitely think the absolute hard cast basics (upper body downhill etc) come into play are extreme steeps. Always good to nail a big coolie and really be focussed on complete precision and execution.

[shera]

Back to the point at hand, Drunken Frenchman is finally getting some solid lines in and with the little nightly fresheners has gone from frozen dog shit to a solid run in about 9 days. Thank god for that. And She-Ra, we have to hit a bump day sometime this year. I want to pick your brain in person about how to train my mini-maggette. Until the snow flies enough to hit the fun steeps, keep working on those moguls!

Sure thing. Just shoot me a pm. I work weekends, FYI.

I do not want chest thumping battle trust me.

I know, I thought you were being very gentle.

By cheat I mean something that's gonna get me flunked on my certs. The question is whether I am behind my skis playing catchup.

Thanks for the touch and punch, you reminded me of something from a long time ago. Will do. I use one pole across to start teaching countering to kids, pole stays reaching down the hill. No upward motion though, that is interesting. And the boys wil love the gladiator name.

When I ski powder my stance is more closed (not countered) and I do use some outer body rotation. I like how it feels when I ski powder and PSIA can back off. That's my world.

More interesting is how I will ski tight steep couloirs this spring since I'm initiating a lot of my turns with flexing rather than extension right now, kinda infatuated with something new I've learned I guess. But I love the feeling in the steeps of just launching head first over the front of my skis, one of my favorite things in skiing.

Ok, I guess that's enough of the epicski type discourse...

[syrneh]

Switch to tely skis, as you make the low turn an upclose view of the mogul will make them easier to figure out.

[Captain Anal]

Switch to tely skis, as you make the low turn an upclose view of the mogul will make them easier to figure out.

HAH! So that's what tele skis are for.

[Downbound Train]

Alta - Proof that it doesn't take snowboarders to create shitty moguls.

[Grape_Ape]

Alta - Proof that it doesn't take snowboarders to create shitty moguls.

Dude, shut it.

[Downbound Train]

Dude, shut it.

What is your malfunction loser?

[LIP]

I am a pretty decent skier when it comes to almost any other terrain. Love droppin cliffs etc. With all this crud we've been getting here recently ( Whistler) ... its all been about mogul skiing. I've been trying to ski this for the past few days, and I am getting beat. Its so bad..... I am hunched over like an old man out of control sometimes.

I am thinking of about taking a lesson... har har. I was never really taught this "technique" growing up and always really avoided it. I just thought it might as well be useful and help with my overall skiing.

Anyone else stink at this too?

Check out 'Fistful of Moguls' starring Glen Plake. What he says is true. Since fat skis came out, any asshole gaper can go buy a pair and ski some pow and look OK. Same with 'shape' skis and groomers. There is NO buying bump skiing!!! Truly zippering a bump line is one of the best feelings in skiing. If'n youz gotz da skillz of course. Anyone who says bumps suck is just 'cuz they can't ski 'em. Learning how to ski them definitely improves your all around skiing.

[Chugachjed]

Bumps suck... It means no fresh snow.

[LIP]

HAH! So that's what tele skis are for.

No, they're for trying to impress stinky hippy chicks. After around 700 days of telemarking in my life, I don't think I'll ever strap on the hippy sticks again. Fuck the bullshit about a tele turn 'feeling better' bro bra. To quote Andre McLean on telemarketing, "The inefficiency on the uphill is only matched by the instability on the downhill." Of course, if you love the smell of patchouli, rock on!!

[Grape_Ape]

What is your malfunction loser?

To answer your question: dooshbag skiing poseurs such as yourself who get paid by right-wing fucktards to doosh up skiing forums.

[systemoverblow'd]

To answer your question: dooshbag skiing poseurs such as yourself who get paid by right-wing fucktards to doosh up skiing forums.

Nope, you do a good enough job of that yourself monkey. Remind me again 1 piece of advice or stoke you have provided in your tenure here? People here may think I'm a douche but others understand I helped them. What's your excuse?

[skiballs]

People here may think I'm a douche but others understand I helped them. Because they thank God they're not me .

fify......

[bendtheski]

if you can not tell those are not hop turns and something complete different Moverment Analyais is lost on you and you clearly do not know what a GS turn is either.

They are hop turns and serve no purpose. To insist otherwise is doing your potential client a disservice.
GS turns are one of the many things holding you back in the bumps, but pale in comparison to your sanctimonious assertions of superior technique, and inability to accept valid criticism.

Everytime at the end of you bumps runs you lose it and your linking maybe 10 turns and gaining speed the entire way, this does not fly on anything here.

Your powers of observation suck. You could only possibly have seen the end on two runs of mine since the rest of the footage was edited. Both sections you did see end with me turning out of the fall-line and stopping because the guy filming thought it would look better to film in short segments. He is primarily a still photographer and was nice enough to video so I didn't argue.

Stop trying to de-legitimization one of the few legitmiete coaches on here. If the OP requested a private at this mountain he would most likely me. You on the other hand would never be able to get to where I am with you cocky ass attitude and tail swinging non finesse BS.

Keep telling yourself and your clients that. Neither of you will progress an iota, but at least you'll be in good company. (note to self: never take a private bump lesson at Stowe)

Your comments show a true lack of understanding of what is going is.

Your comments show an entrenched, "I can't do it, but I can teach you how" mentality, which is why anyone who is serious about elevating their bump game should look elsewhere.

your not engage anything on the front half the ski, you have no turn shape, and there is a reason you blew out you ACL is because you bash bumps instead of flowing though them. I am not saying stop zipperlining I am just saying learn to do otherways before bashing others.

Wow, where do I start? I blew my ACL because I decided to ski Loveland Pass with low cover early season because there were few other interesting options inbounds, but way to stay classy and blame it on technique.

This whole thing started because you tried to impart your self-proclaimed wisdom on someone who is legitimately trying to improve their game. I saw it for the BS it is, and in the interest of not confusing the OP with useless drills that will in no way help them improve, I decided to call you on it. Actually, I doubt even PSIA instructors would endorse your "porpoising" technique as a way of improving in moguls. I suspect you came up with that one on your own.
Last I heard PSIA was encouraging following the path running water would take through the bumps, which is at least slightly more valid than what you're proposing (porpoising).

You posted two videos of yourself supposedly "doing it right", and then stated you'd love to see video of me skiing bumps. I provided video that (arguably) demonstrates competent mogul skiing, rather than focusing on pointless drills and bad technique, and you took the opportunity to make some broad generalizations about things you've heard talked about but that you can't demonstrate.

I'm sure this entire exchange comes across as one terrific dick waving party, and largely it is, at least on my part, (and I do mean LARGE!) but I stand by my original assertion that making hop turns on the flats (porpoising) will do NOTHING to elevate your bump game! I gave what I believe to be some sound advice to the OP a page or two back, but couldn't in good conscience let polewhacker's comments go unchallenged.

I stand by my original contribution to this thread. I'm sorry people like Bushwacker have to come here and muddy the waters with their pointless drills and self-proclaimed superior bump skills based on zero substance.

Zipperlining was obviously pretty important to me at one time, largely because I skied the east coast and my options were fewer. I'd like to feel as though I've moved on both geographically and in the types of terrain I'm comfortable skiing, but every once in a while the bumper in me can't help calling other people out on their BS. Actually, I'm not sure if it's the bumper or the east coaster, but it's not pretty when it happens.

The last piece of advice I would offer the OP is; the company you keep on the mountain can go much further to improving your game than any amount of lessons or coaching. Having visual cues to follow on a regular basis can make things click for you much more quickly than endless discussions between hacks on teh interwebz.

[systemoverblow'd]

fify......

You've contributed so much to this forum too. You should be proud of yourself. How about showing us your cock to solidify your awesomeness?

[Old_Skool_Style]

I'm 40 years old and still pound bump lines.

Couple tips:

smaller skis help
practice on a blue, where you have a run-out in case you can't stay in your line (e.g., Heavenly's comet chair top half)
keep your hands out front and pole plant reach, keep upper body still (my old coach used to say: stab the bunny running down the bumps in front of you in the ass -- repeatedly)
absorb with knees, hips
understand, visualize and then ski the fall line (go where the raindrop would go)
hit every air you can and practice landing in bumps
get comfortable with speed
get in shape
Word!

Now you can join the Gunbarrel 25!

[bendtheski]

I think it's also helpful to remember to angulate from the waist down, and probably more knees than waist.
Leaning with the upper body will make it that much harder to return to center and stay balanced.

[bendtheski]

no such thing as cheating shera . That little flick helps us back pedal our feet which is exactly what I was showing in the dolphin video just at higher level and lateral transfer of what your doing in one part is what good skiing is about. The movement patterns of skiing never change we just change how long its done, for how much, how many times, and at what time in the turn aka DIRT. Duration, Intensity, Rate, Timing. Really the turns we do in ppowder, bumps, steeps, GS turning are using the same fundamental movements.

A tip for your hand if you havent used it yet, is this. A hands being in front is movement and a not a pose or position even though it may appear that way. EVerytime we pole touch we have to drive that hand down the hill so it leads us though the turn(that catchy strong inside half that gets though around so much) and as we are driving that hand are other hand should be pole swinging already. Touch, PUNCH, swing, touch PUNCH swing.

If you still having issue with you hands dropping to your side you can try this. Go spend a half a morning doing what I call american gladitor turns. ski with your pole held in front across your body but always move you inside hand forward and up though the turn. ie turning right move your right hand forward and vice a versa. Basically as if you were jousting another american gladitior (great way to get kids to do this drill).

I see alot of maggots including some very well know PRO coaches who rotate their outside hand though the turn which causes their shoulders and upper body, and hips to twist away from being square to the hill it causes loss of balance on our outside ski and makes it tough to start the next turn. Not saying you do it but its common thing for alot of people who ski alot of powder because we can get away with it there.


I do not want chest thumping battle trust me.

Holy Shit BW, you do have a clue!

These were some of my earlier comments along the same lines before the shitshow started.
Take it for what it's worth, coming from a complete HACK as it is...

I don't think it can be stressed enough in all types of skiing, but especially bumps; fuck your turns, don't shit on them. This means skiing with your chest/pelvis forward, not hunched over and waiting for the next impact. A more upright posture means you'll be able to absorb more of the bump with your leg travel instead of being in a posture that already has you halfway through your compression.

Looking and planning ahead are important, but I think it's more a matter of skiing the terrain, rather than the terrain skiing you. Pull your knees up in anticipation of the mogul, punch your hands forward and turn on the back side. Don't wait for the mogul to drive your knees up and throw your weight back. Keep your hands out in front of you and limit your pole plants to wrist movement only instead of letting your whole arm travel down and back, causing your upper body to rotate and your weight to fall back.

Anticipate, anticipate, anticipate! Reacting to moguls is a sure trip to the back seat. Anticipation, forward hands and edge pressure, quiet upper body and a balanced and stacked body posture are your friends everywhere on the mountain, but especially in the bumps. If you do it right, not only does it not hurt, it can actually be one of the most rewarding feelings in skiing. Doesn't even matter if there's no one there to see it, although it certainly doesn't hurt.

I don't blame snowboarders or shaped skis for my sucking at skiing bumps anymore. Good bump skiers can always seem to make lemonade out of lemons. Chuck Martin, Donna Weinbrecht and Evan Dybvig epitomized this ability back when I used idolize them during my kmart days, and are probably still who I'm trying to emulate when I think I'm killing it on odd-ball, mish-mosh bumps which seem to have become the norm these days.

Anyone can ski a catted course or zipper-line and make it look good. I like bump skiers who can ski absolute dogshit and make it look like a zipper line, that IMO is becoming or already is a lost art.

Of course all of the above seemed much more important to me when I skied the east in the 90's. Now, not so much, but I'm not quite ready to admit I suck either...

FWIW, I wicked suck at park.

[Chainsaw_Willie]

Skiing big, icy bumps on the last run of the day to beers at the lodge sucks. Skiing big, soft bumps after a couple of warm up runs in the morning when you're feeling like a rockstar is awesome.

[neufox47]

You guys are comparing competition technique to general use technique. Nothing wrong with either. Well except for the whole keep your knees together part of comp technique. Thats just stupid.

[Tunco]

Stop trying to de-legitimization one of the few legitmiete coaches on here. If the OP requested a private at this mountain he would most likely me. You on the other hand would never be able to get to where I am with you cocky ass attitude and tail swinging non finesse BS.

The irony is strong with this one.