Reviewed: NTN

[mr walker]

This is long. You've been warned.

When I was in the market for this system there weren't a whole lot of good write ups that answered the questions I had, so here's my attempt to do just that.

I was looking for the following in a telemark boot/binding setup: releasable (this was and still is mandatory where I work), better edge control than my old setup, comfortable, durable, easy in and out. Basically the one thing missing from that list is lightweight which I could pretty much care less about...so the NTN seemed like the obvious choice.

I should preface all this by saying that I was coming off of a Voile CRB/Garmont Energy setup when I first demo'd the NTN. I think the Energy was a good boot, however, IMO the CRB is a terrible binding. It never instilled that feeling of confidence to me. I've seen a lot of them fail, to me there wasn't any solid edge control, and it seemed like everyone using that binder had some story of it releasing on them at a very inopportune time. Basically I was unimpressed with the equipment options, and worse teleskiing wasn't that fun for me. So I tried the NTN.

Me: 25y/o, 5'10", 170ish#, pretty shitty telemark skier when I first tried NTN, strong alpine skier...interpret that last part however you want.

The first 5 NTN turns: I thought to myself, "You've got to be fucking kidding me. This sucks ass, how does anyone ski this shit?" It was like I couldn't flex the bellows or the binding.

Turns 6 - today: SOLD. Completely sold and never looking back. To this day I don't really know what happened...I guess I just went for it, whatever that means, but it felt SO right. I bought the setup, and have been skiing it at work and on my days off. IMO, I've become a pretty fucking good teleskier...I feel like I can say that because I spend 130+ days on the hill and see pretty fucking shitty teleskiers all the time.

Ok. I really like the binding, no doubt. Here is where this review might get a little different. I'm not going to tell you how hard it slays powder or bumps or crud or Grand Canyon sastrugi right now...look, I think it skis great, a lot of people will agree with me here. So this is where I will try to answer some of the questions I had before I bought in.

The "easy in, easy out" feature: From the get go, these were kinda marketed as a binding that's easy to get in and out of. As mentioned I work in skis and I'm constantly in and out of my bindings. So how do these stack up against an alpine binder? Really well, to my surprise. After watching the videos on Youtube of people using (and relying) on ski poles to put their skis on, I was skeptical. The NTN binding does take some getting used to for one to be able go in and out of quickly, but it's no problem. And ***you don't need a ski pole to do it***. Use you skis to step on/pull up on the levers. EASY. I can think of one exception where things get tricky, and that's steep, icy groomers. I should point out that 75mm bindings weren't ever that hard to use...unless they start to slide away. That brings me to the next topic:

BRAKES! : Holy fucking shit what a novel idea. I'm not sure what else there is to be said here, but I love this feature. For those of you who are thinking "Just flip your skis over when you take them off, asshole. Problem solved"...you haven't worked at Breckenridge. Last season I saw the wind pick up an 80 pound toboggan and throw it down Horseshoe Bowl...and it doesn't take nearly that much wind to flip a ski over. NTN bindings do require a slight kick of the foot towards the toe bail for the boot to fully seat, and the brakes keep the ski in place. Speaking of kicking your bindings...

Reliability: This is a problem. Rottefella has released several updated versions of the binding for whatever reasons, but here's the truth. With exception given only to some of the lighter women I know using these, EVERYONE has cracked their frames in at least one place. I was using mine for nearly the whole season when I finally broke off the toe bail. They were done at that point. Upon closer examination, my frames were cracked all over the place. Talking to others who have broken their bindings (in some cases multiple sets) here's what I think is going on:

*Just general abuse.

*We leave our skis outside in a ski locker. Skis are put away wet/slushy/whatever at the end of the day. Overnight they freeze, the ice expands cracking or weakening whatever is in it's way.

*I know I sound like a broken record, but we're in and out of our skis all the time. I kick my bindings, specifically the toe bail, to get snow off of my boots. This may be (hell, it certainly is) weakening the binding.

*I'm such a rad, badass teleskier that my bindings just can't hold it together.

***Rottefella seriously needs to make their shit better. As a huge NTN fanboi, I don't like saying it, but it's true. Yeah, it's a heavy binding so you don't want to add metal. Whatever. Fix it. People are getting fed up.

After talking with Scarpa (U.S. Rottefella distributor at the time of this review) when I warrantied my bindings, it sounds like Rottefella is releasing yet another version. It's supposed to be black and further address the frame cracking.

To try to be fair, complex bindings do break. Fritschi's break off at the toe piece (only one screw holding it on), Naxo's suck, Duke AFD's break off, all kinds of shit can break on a 75mm binder, not even Bishop's and HH's are immune. But none of those are breaking at the rate of NTN's. At least Rottefella is acknowledging a problem and they're trying to rectify it.

Scarpa Tx Pro boot: I'm going to try to be objective here rather than go into how they fit as that will obviously vary foot to foot. They do seem to fit a bit small, but I say that after talking to others. The bellows are soft which I like. You can easily compensate with the different power tubes in the binding. Other folks have complained about the durability of the "duckbill", if you can call it that anymore. Mine are worn too, but I think it comes back to kicking the binding when you step in. I should point out that when you buy these boots, loctite all the screws as soon as you get home. Scarpa may be doing this now. I was warned about it, didn't listen, and lost one of the t-bolts that joins the upper and lower cuff. The boot has two forward lean modes, no I don't know the angles, I just leave it in the more upright mode. The walk mode is pretty fricken nice, especially with what I think Scarpa calls the "Heel Retaining Strap". When touring you can lock that fucker down, leave the top buckles loose, put it walk mode and be very comfortable with a solid range of motion. One thing that isn't so awesome is if you leave your skis and go into snow deeper than your ankles, the snow may push up the walk mode lever, putting it into..well...walk mode. You'll know as soon as you're back in your skis, but heads up.

Some more subjective things about the Tx Pro: Surprise!..I'm a pretty big fan. My feet have always stayed warm in these even on the coldest days, probably thanks to the Intuition liners...I think they're warm liners. On that note, I haven't had problems with wet feet either. They feel pretty light to me, fit my foot exceptionally well (rare), and I really like the cuff height. I also like the flex of the boot (not just the bellows) for a tele application, however, I think they would be pretty soft if you were using them with a tech binding. That's speculation though, I've only tele'd with this boot. Some people have talked about getting their foot pinched by the bellows. I may have figured this out...I truely don't think this binding or boot was designed to get really low. As in trailing knee one inch off the ski. I didn't have any problems with pinching until I let a buddy borrow my setup...his TRaces were killing him. He gets low. Awesome skier, but skis low (he's one of the few that didn't like the NTN). I got the boots back, and all of a sudden I was having pinching problems. I skied it for a couple of weeks, not getting low, and it went away. If some of you guys that had pinching issues want to chime in here with your thoughts, I'd love to hear about it. Maybe...alright, I probably am...full of shit.

Weight of the whole setup: I don't have one problem here. Why? To me this setup is exactly like that of my Scarpa Hurricane/Duke setup. It represents an excellent compromise of downhill performance (I actually don't think there's any loss in the DH) and uphill "fun". If you're one of the gram-counting-super-techy-check-out-my-sick-Arc'teryx-everything-kit and wear the orange tinted glasses even when you sleep...consider the following:

1. No one cares you Dynafit in the ski area.

2. This may not be the setup for you.

3. That's okay, because Boulder cares you Dynafit in the ski area.

4. You [most likely] won't win any Rando races with this setup. That wasn't Rottefella's intention...why would it be your's?

The release feature: This binding has a release feature. It's only "rated" for a sideways release, whereas the Voile CRB will release sideways and upwards. I have the "DIN", if you will, set at 4 with the blue power tubes. I still have not released from this binding...good. I have blown the fuck up a couple of times expecting my skis to be up the trees or something, but they're still with me. Personally, unless I'm going to be doing serious damage to myself I don't want my skis coming off. I've heard people complain about prereleases, but there's usually one of two things happening: (yeah, TWO post review)

[mr walker]

1. The binding is set on 1 (well no shit you're coming out of your binding)

2. They're Clydesdales

I can't comment on the latter, as I don't fall into that category, but the former is kind of a no-brainer. Would you complain about coming out of your STH16's if they were (or even could be) set at 2???

This does bring up an interesting question: Can you set these to release reliably at a particular setting or is it an all or nothing sort of thing? Answer: Since I've never released, I don't know. If someone has a good answer, I'm sure we'd all like to hear about it.

WOW, that's great! Mr. Walker you're fucking awesome! But how does it, ya know, ski? : Well, I love it. Coming from an alpine background, this setup feels much more natural to me. It has great lateral stability, I feel like I can really pressure the cuffs of my boots (while making tele or alpine turns), and it doesn't feel like it's going to collapse on me at speed. While the boot (Tx Pro) has a softer flex in the bellows, the binding (blue power tube) provides a very progressive flex to the whole system. Some people don't like that. I've noticed that the people who don't like it are skiers that tend to get lower in their turns. I don't ski that way for reasons that to me make perfect sense, but I won't get into that. Also, that isn't to take away from the abilities of those who do get low...the ones that come to my mind rip...but just differently. I've also noticed that in powder snow can build up below the boot. I'm sure it has to do with the frame (the orange cage part), but I really don't know how to mitigate that. FWIW, these are really fun (and relatively easy) to ski switch on, due IMO to the progressive flex. I think that flex also helps in bump skiing as it helps support you when you hit a trough. On firm stuff, I'll go out on a limb here and say that this binding outperforms all other tele bindings with the possible exception of the Bishop's. Having only skied NTN's and Voile's, I realize that's a bit of a bold statement, but prove me wrong.

In conclusion: Jesus Christ that's a long review. For ME, taking into account the fact that I require a releasable binding, this setup is the only way to go. Are there other awesome rigs out there? Fuck yeah there are, but this system really fit the bill for what I was looking for. I think at this point it's safe to say that NTN is here for a while. If Rottefella can continue to improve the reliability of these bindings, they will be set. It would be cool to see another company take a fresh approach to the binding design though. I'm not sure if it can be made much lighter, but it does seem like there's a market for that.

Hopefully this will help some of you with making a decision as it's a hefty investment, but for me and most others it's been totally worth it. Please let me know if you have any questions.

[Meadow Skipper]

Welcome to 2009.

Just fuckin' with ya. Nice write up, really.

[hdiddy]

Thanks for the review. Glad you like it.

Can you do me a favor and identify the binding version you have using this page?
http://www.newtelemarkguide.com/wiki/NTN#Revisions

I want to understand the nature of the breakages. Newer versions are apparently less prone to breaking. I need to update the wiki to include the latest version coming out this season - not sure how it well it holds up to frame cracking but so far, the longer it goes the better it gets.

As for snow buildup, some folks use packing tape on the frame below the flex plate. I suppose some double sided foam tape would work too. Some folks cut out some plastic sheets and insert it there using the set screws to keep it in. My experience is that with good technique, it goes away after one or two turns.

I really need to update that wiki. There's some really great tips out there that haven't added yet.

[mr walker]

Haha...yeah, I was worried about that. There are still a lot of people out there thinking about the switch (I know because I still get asked all the time), so I figured WTF.

Plus, reading that recent "What kind of tele gear should I sell in my store" thread got me motivated.

Hdiddy- I just got my bindings back from warranty yesterday, so they are the newest orange version, 2.3. The bindings I broke must have been 2.2's as they had the 6 screw sub plate. I see on the wiki site as well with Google images that the newest version, 2.4, will be black. I'll change that in my original post.

As for snow build up, it's not that big of an issue for me, I just felt it was worth pointing out. Thanks for the advice though.

[hdiddy]

eh... don't be so quick. I just added that 2.4 number and I'm not sure if that's right. But yeah, I'm guessing you got the latest orange versions whatever number that is (2.2 or 2.3 if it exists). Prolly safer to list them as 2.2.

[Core Shot]

In conclusion: Jesus Christ that's a long review. .

yes, I agree.
I too switched to ntn and aint going back.

[Alexander1310]

yes, I agree.
I too switched to ntn and aint going back.

Yep I'm a diehard NTNer and love it. Touring kind of sucks but overall it's the best system IMO. This will be my fourth season on them. I just wish the bellows of the Tx-comps were a little stiffer and that Rotte made the black cartridges again. I like the super stiff.

[verbier61]

once you pop, you can't stop, uh?

[sf]

As for snow buildup, some folks use packing tape on the frame below the flex plate. I suppose some double sided foam tape would work too. Some folks cut out some plastic sheets and insert it there using the set screws to keep it in. My experience is that with good technique, it goes away after one or two turns.

I think a couple of my buddies uses silicone spray, I've never bothered myself, but it could be worth a try

[PB]

Excellent review! Couldn't agree more about stability on firm/icy snow. Curious about specific thoughts when comparing them to other bindings in soft/very soft conditions, though.

[hop]

Curious about specific thoughts when comparing them to other bindings in soft/very soft conditions, though.

Aside from snow packing in every once in a while (no more than anything else YMMV) they are great in deep soft pow.

[fool]

Great review: thanks, Walker. Makes me feel pumped about the NTN bindings I just purchased recently. And not to thread drift, but any experiences with Dynafit/Plum bindings and the TX Pros?

[hop]

Great review: thanks, Walker. Makes me feel pumped about the NTN bindings I just purchased recently. And not to thread drift, but any experiences with Dynafit/Plum bindings and the TX Pros?

I skied the TX-pro/FT12 combo a bit last season, including the last day. It's an excellent combo but even with the shim under the bellows you can feel the softness of the boot. If you are one of those folks that requires a super-stiff boot then you will be bummed, but if you're a finesse skier you should be fine. In soft snow the softness wasn't really noticeable but the firmer it got on the descent the more I felt it. I also did wonder how much energy I was wasting on the uphill because you flex the boot every time you stride and it's not as powerful when kicking steps. Again, no big deal on any other day shorter than 16 miles/10k feet but I got the feeling that a Maestrale, with the super cuff freedom could have been better than the flexy toe of the TX-pro for that particular adventure.

Hopefully Scarpa will put tech inserts in the TX-comp. That would be $$$.

Edit: when packing for an overseas trip where I know I'll be on both NTN and tech bindings, I grab the TX-pro every time. Taking two pairs of boots is for suckers or road trips.

[PB]

Aside from snow packing in every once in a while (no more than anything else YMMV) they are great in deep soft pow.

Haven't really had much of a packing issue yet ....
It just seems like the night-and-day difference between NTN and every other binding I've used in the past (never did get an opportunity for Bombers) on firmer snow is almost reduced to nothing on softer snow. By no means a deal breaker; most gear handles the easy conditions reasonably well - NTN obviously still puts you waaaay ahead overall.

[cliffhucker]

Great review, but I can't help mentioning that you lack experience with the two best 75mm binders and the latest stiff boot for comparison. Ie: bombers, axles, hammerheads... T-race, customs etc. All of these would seem like night and day compared to the voiles. It's comparing apples and oranges.

[mr walker]

Yep, I totally agree with you. But as I mentioned in my review I must use a releasable binding, so that means no Bishops, AXLs, HHs, T-races, whatever. Bummer, because I'm sure they're all great setups. I am by no means trying to say that those suck at all or that the NTN performs better. I'm sure it will ski differently...but not necessarily better.

My review was more about discussing the features of the NTN, rather than saying it's better than x, y and z product (except the Voile. It blows IMO), especially given my lack of experience with other options, as you pointed out. I think a fair statement would be that when you get into this category of telemark gear (big boots, powerful and stable bindings), there aren't a lot of shitty products. I believe it has to do with weight...manufacturers aren't so concerned about grams as performance...thank God.

I hope that makes sense.

[gritter]

Cliffhucker -
I have skied T1's with hammerheads as my main setup for a copuple of seasons. I have also skied them with O1, O2, O3, 3pinHW and switchbacks.
NTN has better edgehold and control than any of them, even though the flex of the tx is softer..
The only 75mm rival that I have not tried is the bishop.

[PB]

^^^^^^^X2

[half-fast]

I have used my tx pros with g3 onyx. they seemed stiff enough to me (6' 190lbs) the bellows are pretty soft, which is irrelevent in tech bindings (as long as you use the spacer blocks) but the cuffs are pretty stiff

[fool]

I skied the TX-pro/FT12 combo a bit last season, including the last day. It's an excellent combo but even with the shim under the bellows you can feel the softness of the boot. If you are one of those folks that requires a super-stiff boot then you will be bummed, but if you're a finesse skier you should be fine. In soft snow the softness wasn't really noticeable but the firmer it got on the descent the more I felt it. I also did wonder how much energy I was wasting on the uphill because you flex the boot every time you stride and it's not as powerful when kicking steps. Again, no big deal on any other day shorter than 16 miles/10k feet but I got the feeling that a Maestrale, with the super cuff freedom could have been better than the flexy toe of the TX-pro for that particular adventure.

Hopefully Scarpa will put tech inserts in the TX-comp. That would be $$$.

Edit: when packing for an overseas trip where I know I'll be on both NTN and tech bindings, I grab the TX-pro every time. Taking two pairs of boots is for suckers or road trips.

Great to hear: thanks, Hop!

[frorider]

TX Pro = soft and torsionally mushy. still though some seem to like it just fine, especially lighter skiers.

NTN skis better/more powerfully than the BD O1, Cobra R8, Linken, Hammerhead, Axl, Voile Hardwire.

welcome to 2009 indeed.

[Danno]

NTN will never catch on.