Whitewolf here we come! Alpine + Squaw. Dreams can come true.

[stuckathuntermtn]

$459 for Alpine and Squaw?
I should move to Reno. People keep telling me it's awesome.

[The Dad]

Ok, well even if every Squaw passholder for the past 50 years COULD afford an Alpine pass (which is ludicrous), I'd guess <99% of Squaw passholders didn't have an Alpine pass. Now they all do.

And they're still going to only be in one place at a time, right? That hasn't changed?

Because if they preferred going to Alpine, wouldn't they have been going there already?

Not to say that there won't be some increase in traffic at Alpine. There may well be (although some die-hard Squaw skiers are concerned about the opposite). But it's not like the 1M+ annual skier visits at Squaw are suddenly going to go over the ridge.

[snapt]

Am I out of line thinking that squaw will get hit hard during and directly after storms then the masses will shift to Alpine which traditionally takes longer to get tracked out. Like splat said once things are interconnected and new terrain is open it will allow the crowds to spread out and things should be fine. Until then...

Hopefully things work out for the best and eventually we end up with a huge area with reasonable prices that can handle the crowds.

[GrumpyPilot]

@GrumpyPilot: It has been my experience that when AM is closed due to a storm, so, too, usually, is Squaw...which is why having HW on the ticket was always clutch.

Yeah, I see your point. I should have been more specific. When Roundhouse is the top of the mountain and KT is turning is what I should have said.

[Flexon Phil]

$459 for Alpine and Squaw?
I should move to Reno. People keep telling me it's awesome.

Yeah, the secret is getting out.

[thefrush]

Am I out of line thinking that squaw will get hit hard during and directly after storms then the masses will shift to Alpine which traditionally takes longer to get tracked out..

This is my worry.

[SnowHot]

Although how it could strengthen that bid is a mystery to me. It's not like this creates more terrain.

A bid for Olympics these days has a lot more to do with infrastructure than it did in the 1960's.
Places like Park City pulled it off with sharing the events with different mountains.

I'm with TheDad....
Marrying AM and SV doesn't make an olympic bid stronger.

[nickwm21]

Am I out of line thinking that squaw will get hit hard during and directly after storms then the masses will shift to Alpine which traditionally takes longer to get tracked out.

Just get in line at summit at 7am....

All in all... KSL can do this right and it will be kick ass, or they can do it wrong and it will still be good. Same terrain, just access to all of it, not half. The crowds will not change. The N* crowd won't come, the SLT crowd will stay on the other side of the lake, the commuters will stay at sugarbowl, the tourists will still spend 4 days at squaw and one at alpine just to check it out.

[jahroy]

A bid for Olympics these days has a lot more to do with infrastructure than it did in the 1960's.

i know very little, but i'm pretty sure the current road system in tahoe would make it a horrible place for the olympics.

if they built high speed trams to reno and sacramento, that would help.

[skinnyskier]

Wirth said he has preliminary identified 100 acres of developable land at the base of the mountain.

“There's 86 acres that is prime for development,” he said. “We just have determine what it's going to look like.”

Wirth conceded that the development environment is difficult at Squaw, but said providing more hospitality is key for business in the region.

“We want to put more quality pillows at the base of Squaw Valley,” he said.

Makes it easier to develop, say, 300 condos, some retail space, and an 80 bed deluxe hotel, when you can market Squaw Meadows as the greatest thing in skiing.

Plus AC now has cash to re-do Homewood with pocket change left over to build the lovely Hotel Avery. Sweet.

[The Dad]

Where's that quote from, out of curiosity?

Makes it easier to develop, say, 300 condos, some retail space, and an 80 bed deluxe hotel, when you can market Squaw Meadows as the greatest thing in skiing.

And makes more sense to add those pillows at the base of Squaw, where there's already a village to leverage, rather than having to build it from scratch at Alpine.

[Sierraskier.]

Jeez people, it's not like they are adding double the amount of skiers, there will still be approximately the same amount of skiers per acre as there always was. They will just all have access to all the acres.

[skinnyskier]

January 2011 Tahoe Bonanza article

The other question, of course, is how much did KSL pay? Vail bought Heavenly in 2002 for $99M and the remainder of Booth Creek's lease to operate Northstar for $63M in 2010. Presumably AC got less than either of those deals. $30-40M?

Regarding Sierraskier's comment, KSL is happy to add some revenue from mountain operations, but is really interested in adding revenue from lodging and real estate.

[Jim S]

One thing for sure: those Alpine Spring passes that last 5 weeks a season are a thing of the past if you can use it at Squaw.

Connect the two places via lifts and terrain access; otherwise it's much ado about nothing for me.

[The Dad]

The other question, of course, is how much did KSL pay? Vail bought Heavenly in 2002 for $99M and the remainder of Booth Creek's lease to operate Northstar for $63M in 2010. Presumably AC got less than either of those deals. $30-40M.

The Heavenly deal is too ancient to be a comp, the Northstar one too dissimilar. Even if the assets were similar, which they aren't, the liabilities are completely different. Not to mention, the structure of the deal means that JMA got paid partially or entirely with stock in the new entity, which means that, effectively, the calculus was only indirectly in dollars - most of it was as a percentage of the value of Squaw.

One thing for sure: those Alpine Spring passes that last 5 weeks a season are a thing of the past if you can use it at Squaw.

Connect the two places via lifts and terrain access; otherwise it's much ado about nothing for me.

I think the spring passes at both resorts have been usable for much less time in the cheap pass era.

And while it may not matter to you, I'm looking forward to finally making turns with you.

[powdork]

Jeez people, it's not like they are adding double the amount of skiers, there will still be approximately the same amount of skiers per acre as there always was. They will just all have access to all the acres.

wait a minute. this sounds like socialism to me!!!!
off with their heads.

[jahroy]

I think the spring passes at both resorts have been usable for much less time in the cheap pass era.

squaw switched from closing on memorial day to the second weekend of may in 2007.

of course it was open weekends until memorial day last year...

2006 was a huge year, 2007 was pretty dry (but fun).

from 2002-2006 squaw was open until memorial day.

i remember it closing the first weekend in may in 2001 (after a lean year).

i wasn't here in the 90s.

[Charlie Don't Surf]

They put up one of these; turn the whole place to Disneyland.
http://www.tahoetram.com/
http://gondolaproject.com/category/p...ondola-system/

[gone2alpine]

Here's what I posted for Andy Wirth at Unofficial Alpine:

Hello Andy (as in our new overlord),

Here’s some feedback to consider. We know you said you have plans to keep the individual flavor of each mountain, and we hope you do that. But some poor decisions have been made during the JMA years and we hope you’re willing to undo some of the damage done by the previous administration. Here’s a list that has been discussed around these parts:

• Tubeville is stupid and has no place at Alpine Meadows

• “Money Hold” on lifts drives customers away

• Grooming was atrocious at times during the last two seasons. It is important to treat your groomers like kings (or queens) and retain them for future seasons.

• If you rely solely on internationals for your employee base and have to think about closing on April 15th, you’re doing things all wrong.

• A kids terrain park brings families to Alpine. Removing a kids terrain park drives families away.

• The Alpine Meadows season should end no sooner than Memorial Day. If you have to farm a bit of snow to make it happen, you will be as cool as Jim Kercher.

• Alpine Meadows needs a superpipe again. You have several competitive teams that would use a superpipe and the general public likes them too.

• We NEVER want to know what Andy is wearing today. Please, no creepy cardboard cutouts.

• Do not even think of doing anything that would make Melanie and Treats leave the breezeway at Alpine Meadows.

• The Ice Bar is a beloved part of Alpine Meadows. It needs to be restored to its old self…except that it has been demolished. We don’t want upscale. Keep the menu at Brats N Beer and bring back PBJs and pizza bagels.

• We like fun events at Alpine Meadows. Bring back the pond skim. Keep the mad cow. Have a true passholder party.

• We expect to see you riding the lifts, on skis or a board, and talking to your clients. You will get zero credit for milling around the lodge or sundeck in street shoes on a powder day.

[Vitamin I]

Jeez people, it's not like they are adding double the amount of skiers,...

True. Not double.

...there will still be approximately the same amount of skiers per acre as there always was. They will just all have access to all the acres.

False. How could you believe this? Today, a brand new product was announced called the Tahoe Super Pass. There are people who would never have bought a Squaw or Alpine pass this year, and now some of them will buy the Tahoe Super Pass, because Squaw AND Alpine for $500-ish is a better deal than any other season pass product in all of Tahoe. That means more skiers per acre, duh.

Why do you think they gave this year's early-bird passholders access to the other resort FOR FREE, instead of offering a $200 expansion option? Because they're generous? No. It's because they want to keep the brand new Tahoe Super Pass product low-priced to attract new buyers. It's KSL---they like money, duh.

.

[StevieG]

There are people who would never have bought a Squaw or Alpine pass this year, and now some of them will buy the Tahoe Super Pass, because Squaw AND Alpine for $500-ish is a better deal than any other season pass product in all of Tahoe.

Got to believe this is KSL's ambition and that they're looking to steal a chunk out of VR's Epic or Epic local late buyers. I'd question whether it's the same market - if you want a SLT option then no change, if you want the whole family Flatstar experience from chi-chi village to lots of cruisy groomers then you're not going to get it. Maybe AM's got a bit more appeal for park monkeys but broadly the appeal of each resort stays the same.

Agree about the KT clusterfuck on a storm Saturday though - could be colossal.

[The Dad]

squaw switched from closing on memorial day to the second weekend of may in 2007.

of course it was open weekends until memorial day last year...

I should've been clearer. I think the spring passes have been starting later. But I've never bought one, so I'm not sure.

[sidewall]

you Tahoe people are lucky...

[kona12]

Yall are missing the finer points. Us Alpine Hippies are now going to have to learn to speak bro-brah, buy even fatter skis, learn how to "lap" stuff....and the best for last, cut people off in line because my bro is up there!

Oh, and don't forget that there is that odd concept of taking a lift to the top of the mountain...hold your breath...and skiing down WITH OUT hiking. Screw this, I might just retire.

Seriously though. I sure do hope they listen to G2A's point about money holds and adopt a more KT like operation of Summit on storm days. This would help to alleviate some of the KT storm day madness. Before JMA, Summit would run or they would at least make an effort to run it on all but the worst days. The last couple of years...last year especially, they would shut it down if anyone so much as ripped a loud one next to it.

My favorite from last season was on moderate wind day when we were all stuck on round house for what would have been the third day of a storm cycle and the third day of summit being closed....and the weather had mellowed but they were still telling us it was "to bad" up top to open...Then blamo, roundhouse pops a gear....and within 10 minutes summit is open and running...let me be clear, the wind didn't go away!

For that, I am glad JMA is gone!

[the_immaculatedeception]

So I guess now we get the perfect union of Alpine's overstated snowfall totals and Squaw's overstated lift openings.

Sweet.