softtail, Ti, 29er?

[mntlion]

looking for a bike that can be run SS or geared, that I dont have to worry about cracking, failing, and will give all day comfort. Thinking that this might be the best of everything for 4.25p frame, 30mm "travel" and big wheels.

MOOTO X YBB

http://moots.com/our-bike/mtb-29/mooto-x-ybb/overview/

any other options that have soft tail, Ti, and 29er?

[marshalolson]

i used to own a ybb, and it rode like it had a flat tire. maybe they have improved the shock, but the one i had had no dampening. jsut a bumper.

waas not wild about it personally.

[mntlion]

just finding my voodoo aizan
http://www.voodoocycles.net/08_aizan.htm
too hard on my back for long rides, Combo of Stiff frame, and no travel. I love the SS or geared options, and have a rocky altitude 29er as a "real bike" but do you think that a Ti, softtail might be an answer?

[frorider]

my YBB experience was similar to marshal's. 'flat tire' feeling was exactly the phrase i used at the time. however since then i've heard from several people that there are some soft-tails that feel better than the YBB.

e.g. the castellano.

my own opinion is that a good quality Ti 29er hardtail that runs around a 17 inch CS and has plenty of clearance for a 2.3 or 2.4 rear tire is a better way to go.

[frorider]

just finding my voodoo aizan
http://www.voodoocycles.net/08_aizan.htm
too hard on my back for long rides, Combo of Stiff frame, and no travel. I love the SS or geared options, and have a rocky altitude 29er as a "real bike" but do you think that a Ti, softtail might be an answer?

perhaps that new Salsa 3 inch travel 29er frame? i haven't ridden one, but i gather that it's targeted at the endurance XCer looking for a lightish, short-travel, efficient-feeling frame. pretty cheap too.

no rear pivot -- relies on flexing of the stays.

[HobieTony]

How about this? My buddy rides one and digs it.

http://www.sirenbicycles.com/song29.html

[marshalolson]

perhaps that new Salsa 3 inch travel 29er frame? i haven't ridden one, but i gather that it's targeted at the endurance XCer looking for a lightish, short-travel, efficient-feeling frame. pretty cheap too.

no rear pivot -- relies on flexing of the stays.

so, if its getting 3" of rear travel, no pivot, flexing the stay, the stay has to be getting effectivly shorter? correct?

[marshalolson]

why not get something like a niner jet 9 and slap a paul melvin on there to run it singlespeed.

sure you will make emo kids in ill-fitting jean shorts sad, but... well... that is a good thing, no?

[frorider]

so, if its getting 3" of rear travel, no pivot, flexing the stay, the stay has to be getting effectivly shorter? correct?

i believe it still has a pivot at the BB/CS junction. so it's not a candidate for a 'pure' singlespeed setup...would need a singulator of some sort.

just doesn't have a pivot at the CS/seat stay junction, much like the longer travel salsa frames.

[frorider]

How about this? My buddy rides one and digs it.

http://www.sirenbicycles.com/song29.html

i've heard good things about the siren. haven't ever seen one in person despite riding socal trails a lot a few years ago.

back to moots...the slider version i.e. the Uno YBB would make a clean looking singlespeed.

there was a time when the ''lose the pivots, lose the maintenance"" argument of a softtail sorta made more sense to me. but with turner and santa cruz and intense (and hell, even Kona) with zerk fitting pivots, my thinking has changed. the SC Nomad pivots have been absurdly low maintenance and trouble free for me & my riding crew.

Still though, I can see how your desire to run a clean single speed w/o singulator might sway you here.

[ZomblibulaX]

so, if its getting 3" of rear travel, no pivot, flexing the stay, the stay has to be getting effectivly shorter? correct?

Salsa Dos Niner? 3" of fork travel; 1" boinger in the rear. Same as the YBB, I think? There's no pivot, just the boinger and a lot of flex around the chainstay/bb junction. So I guess it would essentially be getting shorter, but not by much.

I was looking at the Song and the Dos Niner while trying to convince myself to update my Monocog 29er this summer, but didn't feel that one inch of travel was going to revolutionize my ride. Wagon wheels already smooth out trail chatter so well, i just run what i brung instead.

[Spats]

I ride a Curtlo 29er softail (steel) and it doesn't ride like it has a flat tire.It weighs a lot more than 4.25#, though.

Basically it feels like a hardtail, except you get flats less often and your butt doesn't hurt as much.

I don't like the YBB "damper" because you can't adjust effective spring rate...all you can do is overdamp it to make it not bottom out. I think that's what gives it the "flat tire" feeling.

[mntlion]

thanks guys, keep the ideas coming.

I guess my "problem" is that the voodoo is abusive to ride for 2+ hours on my lower back (4 * broken TP's, herniated discs, from 4 years ago, and 1 * surgery for the herniation 2 years ago) I love the SS, and have used it as a 1 * 9. It is already light (18-19 rigid, and 21-22 with fork) but I just need the smaller vibrations gone.

[BushwackerinPA]

thanks guys, keep the ideas coming.

I guess my "problem" is that the voodoo is abusive to ride for 2+ hours on my lower back (4 * broken TP's, herniated discs, from 4 years ago, and 1 * surgery for the herniation 2 years ago) I love the SS, and have used it as a 1 * 9. It is already light (18-19 rigid, and 21-22 with fork) but I just need the smaller vibrations gone.

what frame material?

[mntlion]

what frame material?

http://www.voodoocycles.net/08_aizan.htm

Scandium.

[BushwackerinPA]

http://www.voodoocycles.net/08_aizan.htm

Scandium.

ever try a 'plush" steelie? never ridden that bike but I have own a Scandium cross bike and well better than straight AL wasnt as good as a steel cross bike for ride compliance.

Vassago comes to mind but some do not like the geo. Maybe the Niner SIR?

[ZomblibulaX]

thanks guys, keep the ideas coming.

I guess my "problem" is that the voodoo is abusive to ride for 2+ hours on my lower back (4 * broken TP's, herniated discs, from 4 years ago, and 1 * surgery for the herniation 2 years ago) I love the SS, and have used it as a 1 * 9. It is already light (18-19 rigid, and 21-22 with fork) but I just need the smaller vibrations gone.

ThudBuster!!!!

[yonskion]

So I was after the same thing.....
I had a YBB Litespeed ovalized, oversized downtube pinched & twisted for torsional strenght. It still creaked, moned and felt like it had a flat tire. Besides the 26" inch wheels were too slow. last week I gambled on a Salsa "Dos Niner" Scandium on ebay. People seem to love this bike from the 5 years of reviews
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT
cheap enough that if I don't like the frame I can make a go of it with the hardware on another 29er'

[DAFTC]

Lenz Milk Money?

http://www.lenzsport.com/detail.php?prodID=4


Look sweet. No idea how they ride since I don't have the money, but good reputation...

[mntlion]

that might work too. (very cool idea/design)

I guess I need to see what frame material will soak up the small, micro vibrations the best. Carbon, Ti, etc.

[yonskion]

I guess I need to see what frame material will soak up the small, micro vibrations the best. Carbon, Ti, etc.

Milty... remember we are talking about MTB here I belive the "road weenie" "micro vibrations" your talking about are best discussed in "TechTalkJong".
Titanium is the unmatched best, but it creaks and flex's and feels limp. Carbon breaks when sratched deep enough, Aluminum makes my hands fall asleep......I have convinced myself to shut up and ride "don't sweat the stupid stuff" seriously, all bikes hurt by nature. On Mountain Bike, I have found the eratic up and down with uneven pedal stroke is not the best venue for the properties of Titanium. Small road vibration gets washed out by the ruts, rocks and roots @ speed. I prefer a little more response which is why I don't like Fulll Suspension for XC. The soft tail 29er we are wishing for may not exist yet, all bikes hurt some just make you feel better = "esteem" riding them.
I'm trying Scandium this time, but I bet it hurts like all the rest.
GET WHAT MAKES YOU FEEL GOOD!

[BushwackerinPA]

Milty... remember we are talking about MTB here I belive the "road weenie" "micro vibrations" your talking about are best discussed in "TechTalkJong".
Titanium is the unmatched best, but it creaks and flex's and feels limp. Carbon breaks when sratched deep enough, Aluminum makes my hands fall asleep......I have convinced myself to shut up and ride "don't sweat the stupid stuff" seriously, all bikes hurt by nature. On Mountain Bike, I have found the eratic up and down with uneven pedal stroke is not the best venue for the properties of Titanium. Small road vibration gets washed out by the ruts, rocks and roots @ speed. I prefer a little more response which is why I don't like Fulll Suspension for XC. The soft tail 29er we are wishing for may not exist yet, all bikes hurt some just make you feel better = "esteem" riding them.
I'm trying Scandium this time, but I bet it hurts like all the rest.
GET WHAT MAKES YOU FEEL GOOD!

Steel

is

Real

its no lie really once you get past the weight and in the case of highend frames its not much more at all.

[yonskion]

Steel

is

Real

its no lie really once you get past the weight and in the case of highend frames its not much more at all.

Steel feels good, but is very brittle and not worthy of the high end builders price tag
I have broken 5 quality frames over the years....
1. Bridgestone MB-1 (Prestige tubing) cracked head tube and multipul stress fractures @ top tube weld with head tube.
2. Mountain Goat Cycles "Wiskey Town Racer" (Prestige tubing) cracked seat tube
3. Mountain Goat Cycles 1st bike replacment and head tube cracked
4. Colnago (SLX Columbus tubing) BB cracked could have been because of the clover leaf cut out on bottom bracket
5. Bianchi (SL Columbus tubing) BB cracked
Steel is real expensive if you want a custom hand built frame and will break anytime it feels like it......
It's hard to tell a steel lover that there are better materials

[BushwackerinPA]

Steel feels good, but is very brittle and not worthy of the high end builders price tag
I have broken 5 quality frames over the years....
1. Bridgestone MB-1 (Prestige tubing) cracked head tube and multipul stress fractures @ top tube weld with head tube.
2. Mountain Goat Cycles "Wiskey Town Racer" (Prestige tubing) cracked seat tube
3. Mountain Goat Cycles 1st bike replacment and head tube cracked
4. Colnago (SLX Columbus tubing) BB cracked could have been because of the clover leaf cut out on bottom bracket
5. Bianchi (SL Columbus tubing) BB cracked
Steel is real expensive if you want a custom hand built frame and will break anytime it feels like it......
It's hard to tell a steel lover that there are better materials

I have yet to break one, but then again I buy pretty heavy bikes.

[creaky fossil]

My $200 On-One Inbred frame rides smoothly, can take derailleur or run SS, and the low cost on the frame means you can get a super-trick fork and other parts and still total up less than one bare Moots frame.

I've owned Ti and steel and I don't feel a difference in the ride. I do remember more sway and flex at the BB cluster on the Ti frame, and I know that's the most consistent weakness of all Ti frames, especially 29ers and big-sized 26ers. I don't think I'll ever buy another Ti frame. I'd probably accept one as a gift though.

If you need Ti cush, just get a Moots post with layback. That's what I'm running on the Inbred. Enough flex to smooth out the ride.

**********

yonskion,

your post suggests that the quality of the tubing is what matters in steel frame failures. Most steel frame failures have to do with excessive heat during tube joining, or insufficient butt length. Most frames break at the tube junction or the end of a butt. Occasionally they'll break at the distant end of a gusset -- that's another heat-zone issue there.

Steel frame failures usually have to do with either builder error or rider abuse, not the Brand Name or Model of the tubing used.