softtail, Ti, 29er?

[Spats]

I guess I need to see what frame material will soak up the small, micro vibrations the best. Carbon, Ti, etc.

That's like asking "What homeopathic medicine works the best?" Answer: none of them, it's all placebo effect.

Flexy layback seatposts and seats with flexy rails will make a difference, as will flexy handlebars. But frame material cannot possibly make a difference to your ass or to your hands.

1) No seatstay moves more than a thousandth of an inch or so under compression. That's the point of triangulation. Compare that the the movement of a pneumatic tire, a seatpost suspended at one end, seat rails, and seat padding.

2) Your handlebars aren't even attached to the frame...they're attached to the fork!

Of course, this will never convince anyone, just like "audiophiles" are convinced they can hear the difference between an 8ga and 15ga power cable even though the transformer windings (through which all current passes) are ~28ga.

Can you feel different frames flex at the BB as you stomp on the pedals, or at the headtube as you slam on the front brake? Absolutely. But the idea that one frame material will be more comfortable than another to ride is sheerest bushwa.

[creaky fossil]

the idea that one frame material will be more comfortable than another to ride is sheerest bushwa.

I think what you mean to say is YOU can't feel the difference. And that's a whole lot different thing than saying there is no difference.

I know people who say they can't feel a difference between a foam core ski and a sandwich w/ metal ski. That doesn't mean the difference doesn't exist.

I know people who say they can't feel a difference between driving a modern VW GTI and an 80s Cadillac Seville. That doesn't mean the difference doesn't exist.

The real question is whether someone can tell Kokanee from PBR in a blindfolded taste test.

[DAFTC]

The real question is whether someone can tell ginger from blonde in a blindfolded taste test.

FIFU

2468

[yonskion]

That's like asking "What homeopathic medicine works the best?" Answer: none of them, it's all placebo effect.

Flexy layback seatposts and seats with flexy rails will make a difference, as will flexy handlebars. But frame material cannot possibly make a difference to your ass or to your hands.

1) No seatstay moves more than a thousandth of an inch or so under compression. That's the point of triangulation. Compare that the the movement of a pneumatic tire, a seatpost suspended at one end, seat rails, and seat padding.

2) Your handlebars aren't even attached to the frame...they're attached to the fork!

Of course, this will never convince anyone, just like "audiophiles" are convinced they can hear the difference between an 8ga and 15ga power cable even though the transformer windings (through which all current passes) are ~28ga.

Can you feel different frames flex at the BB as you stomp on the pedals, or at the headtube as you slam on the front brake? Absolutely. But the idea that one frame material will be more comfortable than another to ride is sheerest bushwa.

Duh No Man! I can feel the diference between a Ti frame vs Aluminum and I ain't no "audiophiles"

[El Chupacabra]

frame material cannot possibly make a difference to your ass or to your hands.

I can definitely feel the difference in my lower back when riding an aluminum hardtail vs. steel or ti hardtail. I also noticed the difference when I had to ride a cheap, uber-rigid aluminum road bike on a trip -- that thing beat me up a lot more than my ti road bike.

A ti seatpost (on an aluminum bike) didn't make as much of a difference as I had hoped for, unfortunately. Titanium-railed saddles might help a tiny bit, but I think there's more flex in the saddle shell anyway.

[mntlion]

I'm running a Ti railed saddle, on a carbon post already.

I'd love to see a blind test for the same frames shape/size, same parts, but with a Ti, Al, and Steel frames. see what the feedback is.

[yonskion]

You know what you want.... Now just use your Jedi tricks too convince and justify with your Wife the outrageous expense. Ti YBB 29er is a must own @ least once in life. I say gopher it dude

[creaky fossil]

FIFU

2468

You're too modest. That wasn't just fixed, it was improved.

[frorider]

Lenz Milk Money?

http://www.lenzsport.com/detail.php?prodID=4


Look sweet. No idea how they ride since I don't have the money, but good reputation...

a BB shell pivot is one of those ancient supension ideas that was tried, and rejected, by the industry many years ago. if you're a fan of singlespeeds, like i am, your first reaction might be 'hey, cool design' but the whole point of singlespeeds is cranking 'em when you are standing tall, out of the saddle...and that's when the design sorta fails (unless u run a shitload of pro pedal damping). the milk money owners i've spoken with readily admit this, and think of the bike more as a quiver bike...something fun to take out occasionally but with some inherent drawbacks.

YMMV of course.

[DAFTC]

^^No that makes total sense. I think I've just always thought that suspension designs that required the stays to flex were spooky (maybe I bent too many paper clips back and forth until they snapped when I was a kid) and that the shell pivot sort of dealt with that. Which it probably does...by adding in a new kind of weird. I'm happy w/my fully rigid for now, just like seeing leftfield-(retro)innovative designs.

Speaking of, RetroTec's are pretty.

[chaka]

A Ti 29 hardtail with longish extended Ti seatpost may do the trick. I was surprised at how much difference it apparently made on a long distance race, but my compare was a Ti 26 frame/Alu seatpost so the compare is polluted by wheelsize. Most likely you will get the extra seatpost extension as the seat tubes tend to be shorter on the 29. That extra extension adds noticable flex in the post. The Eriksen post is a work of art, very simple bombproof saddle attach too!

[mntlion]

do you think that the "flat tire feel" of the YBB was just another way of describing a feeling that others might like?

in ski terms:
what is snappy, and responsive (positives) to one person is nervous and twitchy (negatives) to others?
or do some people like the YBB?
I might have a chance to demo this in the fall, and that should help answer a lot, but if not it is BIG money mistake to make. The voodoo zaka looks like a cheaper roll of the dice if I hate it, and it sure can't be any MORE stiff/harsh (responsive and you can feel the trail really well)