Running, Anyone...?

**Platinum Pete** · 03-19-2010, 09:19 AM

Originally Posted by Dantheman

Are you plagued by chronic injuries that would be helped by better mechanics? If you are not, it may not be worth the trouble. I also think something like POSE is probably best learned via in-person coaching with someone who knows what the hell they are doing, self teaching it doesn't seem easy to do or a great idea in general. Maybe not, I haven't read the books. From what I do know it seems the biggest takeaways from them are don't heelstrike and don't overstride, both of which are pretty uncontroversial and everyone should make a conscious effort to avoid doing them.

I am NOT getting injuries and I am pretty surprised at how fast I am recovering from longer runs compared to when I was younger (though hydration/nutrition/stretching/rest probably account for a lot of that). What I am interested in is twofold: not having some injuries sneak up on me from extended pounding, and the efficiency gains of the Pose technique. I read that for same time, same track runs some athletes are seeing 10% reduction in heart rate - that's pretty interesting to me. I know I could also use some advice/coaching on making sure my stride doesn't slip into heel striking when I get tired. Further, I'm only trailrunning these days so on long downhills I want to know good stride technique to not wreck myself but still take advantage of the gravity.

**bagtagley** · 03-19-2010, 09:35 AM

If you're avoiding heel strikes and shortening your stride, aren't you essentially moving towards the Chi or POSE techniques?

**Platinum Pete** · 03-19-2010, 11:35 AM

Originally Posted by bagtagley

If you're avoiding heel strikes and shortening your stride, aren't you essentially moving towards the Chi or POSE techniques?

I guess so, but there are whole books on the subject. I figured there was more to it than "shorter strides and avoid heel strikes." Then again I work at a tech company so it's natural for me to give PhD's too much credit for simple ideas explained too far.

**Dantheman** · 03-19-2010, 11:49 AM

Since no one here seems to have first-hand experience, you may just need to buy the book(s) and/or find a running forum frequented by people who have adopted the techniques (or tried them and abandoned them).

**Tuckerman** · 03-19-2010, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by bagtagley

If you're avoiding heel strikes and shortening your stride, aren't you essentially moving towards the Chi or POSE techniques?

Yes thats it. The ball of the foot is designed to be springy. I started this about a year ago and went injury free all last season. I have been working on shortening my stride and keeping my upper body quite to conserve energy. It's the one thing I have noticed from the faster Ultra runners short stride, they seem to almost shuffle.

**trainnvain** · 03-24-2010, 07:40 AM

Haven't run in 8 or 9 years.
Started again this spring.
I took a few warm up laps up a mile/mile-half last month on the road and then busted out 6.3 (surprised myself there) on a sunny, warm, wet tromp last week.
Gotta go buy new shoes now but I'm psyched for the trail running season (until I get into bike season)

**lionelhutz** · 03-24-2010, 08:03 AM

Originally Posted by Tuckerman

Yes thats it. The ball of the foot is designed to be springy. I started this about a year ago and went injury free all last season. I have been working on shortening my stride and keeping my upper body quite to conserve energy. It's the one thing I have noticed from the faster Ultra runners short stride, they seem to almost shuffle.

While I agree 110% that there are "better ways" to run. Like don't heel strike, keep upper body quiet, breath out on the footfall, try to keep footfalls light.... I also strongly believe that you have to find what works for you. You are built differently than others. You have to run for your body and not somebody else.

Also - injuries have a ton to do with simply who you are. Some people just are built to run and aren't going to get injured no matter how they run and how many strides they take. Simple as that sometimes.

**OldLarry** · 03-24-2010, 08:08 AM

have been running lots (for me) past few weeks, and my outside hip is sore- wtf?

**Tuckerman** · 03-24-2010, 08:11 AM

Originally Posted by lionelhutz

While I agree 110% that there are "better ways" to run. Like don't heel strike, keep upper body quiet, breath out on the footfall, try to keep footfalls light.... I also strongly believe that you have to find what works for you. You are built differently than others. You have to run for your body and not somebody else.

I would agree with that. Trying to change the way you run could also lead to some overuse injury IMO.

I have question, I registered for the 2010 U.S. Mountain Championships as a Clydesdale (anyone over 190) at the time 2 weeks ago I was 194. Now I'm 187 and going down. Can I still win this group if I'm less then 190 on race day? I know as a fighter you weigh in one day and sometime later you fight and almost always the fighter is heavier on fight day.

**Tuckerman** · 03-24-2010, 03:42 PM

Originally Posted by lionelhutz

While I agree 110% that there are "better ways" to run. Like don't heel strike, keep upper body quiet, breath out on the footfall, try to keep footfalls light.... I also strongly believe that you have to find what works for you. You are built differently than others. You have to run for your body and not somebody else.

Also - injuries have a ton to do with simply who you are. Some people just are built to run and aren't going to get injured no matter how they run and how many strides they take. Simple as that sometimes.

...................................

**telepariah** · 04-05-2010, 04:40 PM

Just bolted out of the cave for my first real run since shoulder surgery 8 weeks ago. I had been doing a little bit of run/walking up to 3 miles a couple of days a week and was still feeling really tired much of the time. I think I just needed to get out and push myself to work thorugh some kind of barrier. New shoes made it too irresistable.

Over the weekend I went to REI to spend my dividend and 20% coupon on a pair of five fingers. They didn't have anyone available to help Saturday in the Denver store and only had size 47 yesterday in the Boulder store. So I tried on a pair of La Sportiva Crosslites in 44.5.

They feel revelational around my foot the way they just suck the foot in and hold it just like I always say a shoe or boot should hold your foot, snugly between the instep, arch, and the heel. The Crosslites have a very thin and flat midsole that doesn't interfere with (actually encourages) a neutral forefoot landing -- I don't even like the word strike. Just what I've been looking for. I bought 'em. I have narrow, flat feet and I had a hell of a time getting my foot into them the first time. If you have wide or high volume feet, you'll probably want to look elsewhere

I told myself I was just going to go for a quick run -- less than an hour -- and so I didn't even bring any water. An hour and a half later I was just swinging back down into the neighborhood after about 8 miles of rough and muddy, slushy trails. The tread on the Crosslites never gave even a hint of slippage. The low heel felt just right and I didn't heelstrike once in 8 miles. Maybe it's just a lucky match to the shape of my foot, but it seems these wrap your foot up in a way that traditional shoes simply don't. No chance of blistering. No heel striking. No slipping. And they feel light as a feather.

I'm stoked not only by these new shoes but also by the fact that I can run again.

OldLarry, IT band. One of the many problems caused by the running technique forced on you by conventional (since 1972) running shoes.

**shroom** · 04-05-2010, 06:51 PM

8 miles in 51 minutes today, first time i've timed myself in a long time, and I feel pretty good about it.

**telepariah** · 04-05-2010, 07:41 PM

That's pretty quick by my standards. I'm just a fat old plodder though.

**Tuckerman** · 04-06-2010, 05:26 AM

Originally Posted by telepariah

So I tried on a pair of La Sportiva Crosslites in 44.5.

I won a pair of La Sportiva at a race a few years ago. I loved them only thing is the treads disintegrated after a few 8+ hour mountain runs. But the trails I run on here in NH are covered with huge rocks, maybe that has something to do with it.

**XtrPickels** · 04-06-2010, 06:32 AM

Originally Posted by OldLarry

have been running lots (for me) past few weeks, and my outside hip is sore- wtf?

when you stand on one leg, the opposite side (the one without a leg under it) wants to drop to the ground. The muscles on the outside of your hip on the side of the leg that you are standing on contract to make sure the hip doesn't sag.

It sounds like yours are perhaps a bit weak for what you've been asking them to do. I'd drop down in volume and start adding single leg movements into your strength training. At the very least, start doing things standing on one leg. Simple things like doing the dishes on one leg will have you reaching and leaning and giving your hips a good workout.

**Tuckerman** · 04-06-2010, 08:09 AM

haha

**telepariah** · 04-06-2010, 08:35 AM

Classic!

**gh444** · 04-06-2010, 08:42 PM

5/8/10 is the day of my first 10k. I've never been a distance athlete. And I'm a big guy who has had three knee surgeries. Not sure how I'm going to get comfortable with that distance in a month since right now it hurts to run more than 3 miles but we'll see. I've been running for about five weeks and 3-4 miles three times a week is where I'm at right now.

Signed up for a half in August.

**guest** · 04-06-2010, 09:17 PM

Originally Posted by telepariah

So I tried on a pair of La Sportiva Crosslites in 44.5.

They feel revelational around my foot the way they just suck the foot in and hold it just like I always say a shoe or boot should hold your foot, snugly between the instep, arch, and the heel. The Crosslites have a very thin and flat midsole that doesn't interfere with (actually encourages) a neutral forefoot landing -- I don't even like the word strike. Just what I've been looking for. I bought 'em. I have narrow, flat feet and I had a hell of a time getting my foot into them the first time. If you have wide or high volume feet, you'll probably want to look elsewhere

I have very flexible, low-volume feet, a wide forefoot and a narrow heel. My stride tends to be short, striking more towards the mid-foot than anywhere else. I shouldn't run, my knees are trashed. Some years ago while I was still a heel-striker, unbeknown to me, I was destroying my meniscus which was removed this time last year. And I've a partial tear of my acl in my "good" knee as a result of some early-season stupidity this year.

I thought my running days were long gone but after breaking my wrist in a few places last June, I simply couldn't take being sedentary yet another three months...so I bought a pair of La Sportiva Wildcats. All of a sudden, I started running. For hours at a time. Pure freaking awesomeness.

It's the best shoe I've EVER owned. I can run again for the first time in nearly seven years without any pain or issues. They're a fantastic trail runner: stable (I cannot stress how important that is with my bend-y foot), neutral and my feet never get bruised. They're also fantastic on snow and pavement. Basically, everything that was stated by telepariah save for the emaciated foot part.

And now, I cannot wait to do this: http://rmbl.org/rockymountainbiolab/...te-13rd-m.html. Sure, it's only a 1/3, but I'm a cyclist, not a runner.

**Platinum Pete** · 04-12-2010, 02:45 PM

Anybody running Skyline to the Sea next Sunday?

**XtrPickels** · 04-12-2010, 03:59 PM

Tuckerman- I agree with 80% of what was said in the video but dude has a very very poor understanding of biomechanics and did a disservice to explaining things. I'm also biased against people who identify as triathlon coaches... but thats my own hang up.

The other video, however, seems to sum up a vast majority of the touron runners we get on a weekend basis.

**gh444** · 04-20-2010, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by gonehuckin

5/8/10 is the day of my first 10k. I've never been a distance athlete. And I'm a big guy who has had three knee surgeries. Not sure how I'm going to get comfortable with that distance in a month since right now it hurts to run more than 3 miles but we'll see. I've been running for about five weeks and 3-4 miles three times a week is where I'm at right now.

Signed up for a half in August.

5 Miles with a big ass hill about a half mile in for the following mile and another one about a mile to finish. 51 minutes last night. Big ass blister to show for it but actually felt pretty good. Goal is now 1 hr to complete 6.4 miles.

**lionelhutz** · 04-20-2010, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by XtrPickels

Tuckerman- I agree with 80% of what was said in the video but dude has a very very poor understanding of biomechanics and did a disservice to explaining things. I'm also biased against people who identify as triathlon coaches... but thats my own hang up.

Dude- If I lived where you do I'd hate tri coaches as well.

**XtrPickels** · 04-20-2010, 08:55 PM

Originally Posted by lionelhutz

Dude- If I lived where you do I'd hate tri coaches as well.

Truth
Are you heading up here anytime? We should get a run in. Trails are starting to dry out and the roads are still touron free.

**Platinum Pete** · 04-20-2010, 11:52 PM

Originally Posted by Platinum Pete

Anybody running Skyline to the Sea next Sunday?

I did it, my first organized trail run and my first run longer than a marathon - 50km of trails with climbing was way harder than 26.2 miles of road running. Trail running in a crowd made it very difficult for me to find my groove - I never felt like I found my pace. The heat was more of a factor than I anticipated and I didn't deal with it well in the first half, plus my nutrition/hydration strategy was untested and not a good fit. The climbs were steeper and more frequent than the elevation profile showed. Walking climbs was weird, probably hurt me as much as it helped me, but was pretty much unavoidable with the crowds. Everybody was super nice and very cool, the volunteers in particular were really awesome, but everyone including runners and bystanders were cool. The course was gorgeous with a great variety of trail and flora, including humongous redwoods, swimming holes, and views that I would've preferred to spend more time at than run past. I am very happy with myself for completing this event, but now is not the time for me to contemplate doing another or going further - one foot has serious blistering (not a problem while running but I lost a bunch of skin) and my muscles are hammered. Driving from Santa Cruz back to Portland the day after this run in a stick shift Civic was not comfortable. I'm proud of myself and I have huge respect for anyone who runs this distance or longer.