Wasatch 08-09 Conditions

[grenalds]

Saw a crown line in Days from what looked like a wind slab that naturaled. Maybe 30-40 cm deep at the deepest, and didn't run very far. But big enough to take someone for a ride.

Nice ob. Any idea when it went?

[skiski]

Skied laps on PC Ridgeline this morning. E faces were a little upsidedown and spongy feeling; N aspects skied better. Didnt find any melt freeze crusts like you guys discribe.

Seriously? No crusts? I am remotivated.
I assume those who found crusts found them in LCC or BCC? Anyone try mill creek? Should I take listen to trackhead's recurring theme and try to go outside of the tri-canyons? That scares me. I heard there are muggers in other mountains.

[skiski]

Got out with Boissal this morn. BCC 7000-9500'. All aspects looked at, and all aspects skied were heinous.

Argenta? (just trying to figure out a pattern to what sucks and what is worth it, as the weekend is upon us).

[zion zig zag]

I don't know what you guys are talking about, we found crust less, creamy-smooth pow on north faces. A little bit of sluffing on steep stuff but otherwise really stable.

Was a little milky:


Since the vis was bad we couldn't get a good scope on our line, so we choose the safe option.


I didn't really get any good pics of skiing as the light was super flat, but it was good. I'll bet it went to mank shortly after we left cause the sun came out strong this afternoon and got HOT.

edit: here is one skiing shot:

[zion zig zag]

The snow went wet quick this morning. Looks like this next week is climbing/biking weather.

[MultiVerse]

Took in the closing day festivities at Alta so not really a BC observation but two pictures from the top of Baldy might be of some interest. White Pine slid across the road, shutting down traffic most of the afternoon and the road finally reopened after 6:00 PM:


And, since it’s been discussed in another thread but not here, the strange orange / yellow snow:

[nieveparasiempre]

We skied the Dresden Face today and triggered a very large wet slide. We got up there later than expected and dropped in around 12:30. We didn't see any indications of instability on the face and watched 2 people ski the NE Couloir on Lone Peak without incident prior to dropping in.

We planned on skiing a NE aspect of the face to minimize the risk of wet activity. We dropped part of a cornice which only produced roller balls. We decided to do a ski cut across the most easterly aspect and hunker down on the NE slope in a safe zone. This produced a small sluff which quickly entrained a large mass of snow and grew to be a fast moving slide approx 200 ft wide and ran 2000 ft. We were able to ski the NE aspect we originally indented to ski without incident.

Pre-cornice drop & ski cut.



Post ski cut



Looking down to the runout zone approx 2000 ft below.



Looking from the Toe up to the ridge.



Debris pile > 10-15 ft deep.



I'm not trying to dick-wave. This would have been an UNSURVIVABLE avalanche. I'm feeling lucky we were not caught in this. In hind sight, we shouldn't have been on the slope that late. The heat alone should have been a red-flag. Though no signs of instability existed on the face, active roller balls were present in the Needle.

Bottom line: falling behind schedule, over confidence from a sick day yesterday, and trying to finish a ticklist lead to a pretty scary situation.
Careful out there folks.

[Xover]

Bottom line: falling behind schedule, over confidence from a sick day yesterday, and trying to finish a ticklist lead to a pretty scary situation.
Careful out there folks.

Good reminders; glad you were able to get these without being caught in that monster. I know you know, but we had 3 little things working to our advantage on Saturday that you guys didn't have yesterday - otherwise I'd have pulled the plug on Saturday and just skied the North Face of East Castle. Again, glad you are ok buddy.

[Trackhead]

You mean a stupid Life Link lexan shovel wouldn't dig through that debris?

[zion zig zag]

We skied the Dresden Face today and triggered a very large wet slide. We got up there later than expected and dropped in around 12:30. We didn't see any indications of instability on the face and watched 2 people ski the NE Couloir on Lone Peak without incident prior to dropping in.

Couple of questions for my further education if you please.

What was the snow surface like where you planned to ski? Supportable crust, or still soft?

And understand that I'm not calling you out with this, but did you poke around underneath the surface? Consistent with what was on top? Or wetter?

Did you take a look at the bed surface? Was there any real distinction like where water had seeped to an ice layer? Or was it simply a lot of new wet snow?

I hope the questions make sense cause I've had a few tonight. Wet avalanches are something I'm still trying to figure out, and I think sometimes I don't take them as seriously as I should.

[nieveparasiempre]

You mean a stupid Life Link lexan shovel wouldn't dig through that debris?

exactly what we were thinking!

What was the snow surface like where you planned to ski? Supportable crust, or still soft?

And understand that I'm not calling you out with this, but did you poke around underneath the surface? Consistent with what was on top? Or wetter?

Did you take a look at the bed surface? Was there any real distinction like where water had seeped to an ice layer? Or was it simply a lot of new wet snow?

I'd consider what I ski cut and what we planned to ski as 2 different snow conditions.

Ski Cut: The top 3-4" was a fairly consistent saturation and more dry deeper down. There was no ice layer it failed or ran on as a slab would. Dresden had not slid since the storm so the sluff that was produced from the ski cut entrained more and more "storm" snow as it continued down hill.

Where we skied: Was sloppy corn. A little sticky but hardly produced roller balls. Even though nothing ran on that aspect, we had to traverse under the slide path to get through both chokes. It would have been bad news if it hadn't run yet.

Thinking of how this one started it was really a HUGE wet sluff. It didn't fail on a weak layer like a slab or on the bed surface like the glide avi's you see in Broads. Wet sluffs have a lot of mass that push all the snow downhilll of it along. The bed surface was severely scared and rutted as if a D11 had plowed down it.

So bottom line, my obs were that it was a sluff that went as big as possible, but didn't fail or collapse as a wet slab would. Snow saturation had an even "gradient" going from most wet on the surface to most dry down deep. The failure was limited to storm snow.

Hope that helps. I'm still getting better a feel (and respect) for them as well (obviously).

[Xover]

Hope that helps. I'm still getting better a feel (and respect) for them as well (obviously).

Hey K,

Thanx for not being afraid to ask questions and thanks J for not being afraid to answer his questions.

Both of yous don't have to worry, as I am sure you both know already, that the wet slides and corn slabs are some of the last big pie pieces for worldwide av professionals to figure out with any accurate predictability ... definitely better to error way on the side of caution with this/those things.

I don't know much, but I do know that my experience has taught me to treat these things as more "black and white" than "grey-i can out run it-i'll just go over there to my island of safety" due to their shear weight alone.

NVP, the very detailed (and accurate i'm sure) description you provide above is enough to make my spine tingle with that 6th sense, pull the trigger and bail. It is much to hard to put into words and you, I and ZZZ can talk about it later in tongues (if you so desire); but, inherently to me and my armchair q'bing (as i'm sure you realize now) the line was crossed. i'm so stoked for you and AB that a burial was not involved to compound the issue at hand.

you are a very, very smart and experienced young man with an equally loving wife that i'm sure has and will continue to add an air of poignency to your decisions from the day you said "i do" until "death due you part" and i for one am stoked to be one of your partners and will always, always have you back!!!

thanks for sharing and please continue to do so even when you head to the land of Alto and the Great Pineapple Xpress

[zion zig zag]

yep, thanks for answering my questions, that helps a lot.

Ugh, 45 degrees right now at 9000 ft. I should go back to bed.

[nieveparasiempre]

but, inherently to me and my armchair q'bing (as i'm sure you realize now) the line was crossed.

...with an equally loving wife that i'm sure has and will continue to add an air of poignency to your decisions from the day you said "i do" until "death due you part" and i for one am stoked to be one of your partners and will always, always have you back!!!

Thanx Xover.....my one concern was losing great partners as yourself. And thanx ZZZ for your questions.

After the fact, I felt guilty, like when I wrecked my dads car 16. But I am willing to agree that the line was crossed and it was an err in judgment on my part. I am a young grasshopper, willing to learn from my mistakes, hopefully, not repeat them and learn from wiser (and most likely older ) partners.

My decisions have always been based on, "If shit hits the fan, will I still be able to see Kristin tonight?" Obviously, I let my tick list cloud my judgment and it coulda cost me...a good wake up call for the rest of the season!

[zion zig zag]

Ugh, 45 degrees right now at 9000 ft. I should go back to bed.

Well, it was worth it. 3000 ft of good corn, started skiing at about 8:15 which seemed about right. Snow in the trees was soft with no evaporative cooling but the open stuff was supportable.

[climbhigh1119]

The objective:



From the top:



The Vor getting after it:



North facing held perfect corn at 10:30 am. I would almost call the top 200 ft. recrystalized windbuffed pow. Due east facing lower down was pretty soggy by 10:45, enough so that it was fun for meadow skipping, but would have been scary if it had been steeper. On the way out at 11:15 northwest facing still hadn't softened sufficiently. We probably could have milked one more run on that aspect if we had time. Overall a beautiful day in the mountains. It isn't quite climbing season yet...

I lost a B&D ski crampon off of the eastern side of the NE ridge on the ascent. If anybody happens to find it, let me know and I'll make it worth your while.

[zion zig zag]

I lost a B&D ski crampon off of the eastern side of the NE ridge on the ascent. If anybody happens to find it, let me know and I'll make it worth your while.

That makes two somewhere in that area then, huh Trackhead?

Looks like a good day.

[the vor]

Great day climbhigh! Like zzz i was pretty worried and not expecting much when i saw the temps in the morning, but there was actually a pretty decent refreeze and good skiing up high.

NE ridge was interesting and fun way up. Climbhigh showin some leg for the ladies.


It's freakin' roasting down low, but is that a powder cloud??


Slayed, also the lucky spot where i found my watch i dropped on the way up.


That's it for me, was a great season. Back to Minnesota and more 80 degree temps. Thanks to you all for the obs, stoke, and skiing with me. See ya next year. Stay safe.

[Christopher3000]

Excellent corn snow by 9 AM on east and south faces and 1130-12 pm on west faces for the last three days. Forecasted temps suggest it might happen again tommorow morning, but it'll be another thin refreeze, which will require early action once again.

Not to point a finger, but avoiding wet activity in the spring is all about being dedicated to a timetable of when you know snow is going to be good skiing, and when it's time to get off certain slopes. Today, corn was going off on cardiac ridge, a slope with a similar aspect and elevation as the Dresden face, at about 840 AM. Today's refreeze was less solid than it has been the last few days, but not four hours less solid. South facing slopes had good skiing at 915, with some southeast facing portions already feeling unsupportable to a skipole stab. In late April here in Utah, I plan on skiing east and south facing slopes by 10 AM at the very latest, west by noon, and north facing slopes by 2. Warmer days, like the last few, require even earlier start times.

I've also learned a valuable lesson from the Dresden Face, although what I learned to respect there was wind. A friend and I were at the bottom of the hypodermic needle when we noticed west winds beginning to transport snow overhead. We figured we had time as winds had been light all morning. We were sheltered from the winds while ascending the needle and continued to the top of the coalpit headwall, although by about halfway up we started to notice the winds, and once on top we were battling strong, steady winds. The top of the headwall was beginning to look scoured, so we began our descent, only to find deep powder with a fresh, one inch deep layer of wind transported snow a couple hundred vert down. Ski cuts didn't produce cracking or sluffing, but we moved quickly off the face and down the drainage as it was evident on top of the ridge that lots of transport was happening all around us and that we'd better not dally in such an avalanche prone area.

A few friends had been hoping to ski the coalpit headwall that day but had turned around after skiing into hogum because they were concerned about the winds. They opted to ascend back into maybird for a run out the aprons, and turned around at the obelisk to watch my partner and I reach the top of the headwall amidst a cloud of drifting snow. Although we didn't know it as we hunkered down and prepared to descend the coalpit headwall, about five minutes after we topped out, my wiser friends watched the hypodermic needle and the entire dresden face shed its layer of wind drifted snow, which, like your wet sluff, entrained all the snow downslope of it. One guy had his camera out and took a picture of the massive powder cloud the slide produced; it filled the bottom of hogum fork. Apparently within a half hour of that event, little and main chute on Mt Baldy at Alta ran naturally, as did pipeline chute at snowbird and other high altitude north and east facing shots.

Anyways, that was a long-winded way of confirming, as it has now been well noted in this thread, that something like a wet sluff or a natural release within wind-transported snow is a much more effective lesson on a slope that is steep for its entire vertical drop, like the Dresden Face, the S face of Superior, or Stairs Gulch, than it is on a slope like Cardiff Bowl, Two Dogs in upper Days Fork, or other slopes that begin at a considerable pitch and then quickly mellow out. A deliberate slope cut at 1230 yesterday afternoon on NE facing Two Dogs would have pulled out a dribbler than ran a third of the way down the slope and then stopped, without scaring anybody but hopefully discouraging a descent. Your slope cut on the Dresden Face, one of the largest peices of steep snow in the Wasatch, produced what was essentially an unexciting result on an exciting pitch.

[Xover]

I love that this thread hasn't been added to for 5 days and is on Page 4 .... by the time most of you see this thread it will be way to late anyway ... but if you do happen to see it in time, don't ski tomorrow, it will suck .... instead stay in the valley and go biking, do yardwork, work on your golf stroke, go to the climbing gym, etc.

obs for those still checking (which won't be TH and all His Lambs, uh I mean Sheep): riding is very good to excellent for anytime of the season. [Mr. Obvious]best to find slopes with a smooth base underneath that withstood last weeks heat onslaught and didn't slide[/Mr. Obvious] On the skin up, it was noted that below about 8.0k to 8.5k, the underlying pack has not frozen enough to comfortably "lock up"; this was also felt on the way down as well. Above that, not locked up either, but wasn't gonna release or move on way down. On way down, I hate when the late April snow gets all up in my face every turn; dammit, I ski to see Even though plots showed winds blowing, where I was at from about 7.6k to about 10k, nothing was even soft slabbing up - not much was even sluffing. Sun poked out for a little around 5:30'ish, but it was already low enough in the sky and cold enough to not mank stuff up on North, East and West aspects.

P.S. Tomorrow a.m. will suck and be very, very cold for this time of year; best to stay in bed

[Johnny Deep]

Twas nice to be out in winter again!

[MultiVerse]

Dammit! I went to bed too early to read Xover’s post and instead skied from about 6:00 AM until shortly after 1:00 PM, but, fortunately it was soooo good the WHOLE time… just; FKNA, like a return to midwinter skiing after yesterdays “January” storm.

From across the way, Alta was getting hammered… almost like they were still open only with snowboarders too.

[SPREAD EAGLE]

Spring skiing in the Warsnatch makes me...HAPPY!!!

One of many reunion tours with Otter and Campbell up LCC

SICK day today we skied SSE and South at dawn from Little Soup with variable .5" - 16"+ depth crystal like POWDAH!

I am logging this as the second best pow day I had all season - No joke

I heart the Wasatch



(and to those whom don't like name dropping lines - kiss my ass)

[pointedem]

How did North above 9k hold up?

[Xover]

^^^ not sure; we were off of North by about 10'ish; it was warming up though. My gut tells me with the "slowly" (for this time of year) warming temps + cloud cover later today = anything not on a shady aspect will be mank.

just turn your brain on, their are plenty of shady, north facing long shots out there that will be good to very good for the next few days ... enjoy.

p.s. if you can combine said above with wind protection, you will score some crack