MSM & Glucosamine / Chondroitin for dogs?

[XtrPickels]

Our Golden loves to run and every so often gets a little arthritic.
Today she is especially limpy and she seems to be going downhill.

I've read the reviews on here
(http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=69509)
(http://tetongravity.com/forums/showt...hlight=aspirin)

It seems that anecdotally glucosamine and chondroitin are helping. After going to the store today, I came back with more questions.

Hutash has mentioend 500/ 400mg for Gluc to Cond, any other thoughts there?
Also, how about MSM? I've read that its seems to work (again anecdotally) with both humans and pets, but for those in the know... what do you know?

(for future searches: Dog Dogs Arthritis Limping Joints)

[lobstahmeatwad]

hyaluronic acid it's like pure chicken/fish cartilage.

[mb2778]

I really like that this is in tech talk. I don't know much about which product is best, but I do know that you can save yourself a buttload of money by giving her glucosamine meant for humans (and not bothering to buy the dog-specific kinds). They're exactly the same, one's just a lot more expensive. Either way, good luck! My labs been battling his genetically awful joints for the last few years and glucosamine seems to be the only thing that works. Purely conjecture, but I've always figured that having him swim instead of run is easier on his joints b/c of the lack of impact so whenever possible I take him swimming instead of running (or at least running on soft ground), maybe give it a try and see if she gets less arthritic after?

[Stikki]

NutriVet Hip&Joint Vet Strength has been absolutely amazing for my parents dog. Their dog has 2 blown acl's and could barely walk, effects took about 6-8 weeks to start to show. After 8 months he can now run and jump. Vet is shocked something off the shelf of Petsmart works better than the high priced stuff he pushes.

[bmg97]

I really like that this is in tech talk. I don't know much about which product is best, but I do know that you can save yourself a buttload of money by giving her glucosamine meant for humans (and not bothering to buy the dog-specific kinds). They're exactly the same, one's just a lot more expensive. Either way, good luck! My labs been battling his genetically awful joints for the last few years and glucosamine seems to be the only thing that works. Purely conjecture, but I've always figured that having him swim instead of run is easier on his joints b/c of the lack of impact so whenever possible I take him swimming instead of running (or at least running on soft ground), maybe give it a try and see if she gets less arthritic after?

I have to agree with the swimming thing. My dogs use the pool more then I do. I have been trying different things for my lab and none seem to work all that well. What products are you using ?

[JET123]

Agree with mb2778...

Have had several Danes all on G&C & it did wonders! Also used the human stuff from the local grocery store to help with costs (they were Danes after all, 130lbs, 170lbs, 205lbs). Only did so after discussing it with my Vet...

[ExoticSkis]

We had a very old and arthritic dog who responded amazingly to glucosamine...gave him another two years of pain-and-stiffness-free romping before he gave in to some other body failures...I am a believer in glucosamine for dog joint aches and stiffness. I can't remember the brand name...but standard-issue veterinary forumula you can get through petmeds and other on-line sources if you don't want to purchase refills from your Vet.

I have whooped knees (not injury induced, but due to genetic ailments) that absolutely ache big-time. Several years of low-dose glucosamine (for people...not the doggie formulas) orally for me actually reduced the daily aching...didn't help the excercise-induced acute pains, but definitely reduced the daily soreness..

I give a thumbs up to glucosamine for dogs based on how our old dog responded! Your mileage may vary.

[2FUNKY]

I have a Chocolate lab and have been giving him Chondro/Gluco for 5 years now. I lighten the dose in the off season to every other day for servings but come 1month prior to hunting season, he sees about 80 days afield hunting waterfowl and upland, I up the dose and maintain that dosage throughout and 1 month post season. I have noticed a big difference in recovery time and endurance in the field. Like any supplementation, I remove this from his diet for 3 weeks then start it again, some will argue the need for cycling but I notice in myself and my dog it does make a difference. I also feed him Purina ProPlan or One which has Chondro/Gluco in it in small amounts. You also need to give the combination of Chondro AND Gluco for them to work effectively. Oh yeah, I just give my dog the Human stuff, not the dog specific, same shit just less money.

[mb2778]

As far as what I give my lab, I just grab a bottle of gluc. at the local G&C or pharmacy. This wasn't my idea, my vet was actually the one who told me I was wasting my money by buying dog ones. The only thing I do is try to compare between the available brands to choose whichever one has fewer added ingredients that don't actually help.

Like any supplementation, I remove this from his diet for 3 weeks then start it again, some will argue the need for cycling but I notice in myself and my dog it does make a difference.

What exactly is cycling supplements supposed to do? I've never heard of this for humans or dogs...

[DougW]

We had a very active butthead dog that got a lot slower with age. Put him on ASA coated and he was fine. Switched to a product called Recovery. It was a powder with MSM and glucosamie ( plus Vit C & E plus special stuff). Worked as well as ASA. Then switched to gluc and MSM in pill form as was a lot cheaper. I was on powder stuff for a while and it ( I think ) sped up my recovery for a minor MCL.

[2FUNKY]

As far as what I give my lab, I just grab a bottle of gluc. at the local G&C or pharmacy. This wasn't my idea, my vet was actually the one who told me I was wasting my money by buying dog ones. The only thing I do is try to compare between the available brands to choose whichever one has fewer added ingredients that don't actually help.



What exactly is cycling supplements supposed to do? I've never heard of this for humans or dogs...

Your body will eventually get used to any supplement limiting the effectiveness of the supplement. If you go off the supplement for a couple weeks, then back on them you will notice a difference how your body process the supplement.

[hutash]

Some glucosamine products are good, and some are worthless, unfortunately it is nearly impossible to tell except by trial and error. Since these are food-additives there is no labeling requirements, so anybody can bottle it and sell it. There are plenty of products on the shelf that have little or no glucosamine in them. I stick with the nutramax brand for people or dogs (exact same product, but in different bottles), plus the dog ones from Nutramax have a favored option, which makes giving it daily much easier.

It appears that about 2 out of 3 people respond to glucosamine to some (usually small) degree, and I would say it is similar in dogs. If it helps great, but I think most people think it works better then it really does, at least when testes objectively, not subjectively.

[schwerty]

I've got a lab that's showing signs of arthritis, plus she's a Lyme carrier. Our Vet has recommended an injection called Adequin. The guys swears by it.


Any opinions Hutash?

[bennettc14]

We used to give my Black Lab glucosamine every once and a while when she was in her teens. Couldn't really tell if it helped or not but she was an awesome athletic dog her whole life (over 14). Glucosamine was highly recommended to use by other people. As I see look at it, prob couldn't hurt.

[hutash]

I've got a lab that's showing signs of arthritis, plus she's a Lyme carrier. Our Vet has recommended an injection called Adequin. The guys swears by it.


Any opinions Hutash?

It is good stuff, but a little spendy. May or may not be better then glucosamine. Being a Lyme carrier doesn't mean much, just that she has been exposed to a spirochete type bacteria in the past. Give a good glucosamine product a try (I use Dasaquin), then Adequin if no response)

[schwerty]

Thanks Hutash!

[SterlingSpikeDancer]

Hutash, I have used Adequan in my 15 yo Aussie (who has a repaired R cruciate) and my 9yo black lab. It helps on both of them, and (if you can get the deal) I have tried some IV legend on the lab too. As far as oral supplements go, I could not agree more. Until the FDA steps in and makes some consequences by ditching the "nutraceutical" label, there is going to be more crap than good out there. The whole glucosamine/chondroitin thing was discovered by someone who noticed that the native New Zelanders who lived oceanside didn't have nearly the amount of arthritis in their elders. The reason? Green-lipped mussels (I wish that I could make this shit up). When they were broken down, they were found to contain glucosamine and chondroitin. More recent research (and my current understanding of GI physiology) has shown that the source of the G & C is the important part...ie, get it from a fish source (shark cartilage or, you guessed it Green Lipped Mussel (perniculus, I think) for the beneficial effects of Omega-3 and Omega-6 fatty acids). Some of this science has helped my dogs even more than the injectable meds in the form of Hills Perscription diet J/D. When the injectable meds helped a little, the J/D got the lab jumping up and down on furniture and beds and riverbanks like he was a puppy again. Anecdotally, a similar product called Platinum Performance is the ONLY oral supplement that has made a lick of difference for me personally (6'2", 250lbs of skier/biker/volleyball player...arthritis waiting to happen). That is my whole spiel on the stuff and how/what I think works. Just in the humble opinion of a horse vet (who gets to inject all kinds of joints!). I also feed my pooches fish oil capsules, the human kind from Costco (goes along with the Omega-3 and Omega 6 fatty acids helping.) Good luck keeping the older doggie athletes happy and healthy.

[hutash]

^^^I pretty much agree with all you wrote, but the bottom line is most of it is anecdotal evidence. It would be nice to see some good quality research into these products, and their various formulations. But as long as people are allowed to sell all this stuff with out any regs. nobody is going to. Why spend a ton of money and find out your product maybe worthless, when you can sell a ton of it a reap a huge profit.

I have use J/D on a bunch of dogs with very mixed results, same with all the OTC products. Some work for any given dog, but I certainly don't see anything stand out as superior. Except NSAIDs, that shit can work wonders in the right circumstances.

I find mussels to be one of the erotic of foods, but some how green lip mussels just ruin that visual

[DougW]

If going to give powder you might think about going to a horse store. On weekend was in one with wife. they had a pail fo MSM for $20 , I think it was for 1 kg pail, for glucs, same pail was $40.