Politically, I like Joseph Lieberman

[schindlerpiste]

I almost hate to admit it, but the guy is on the ball regarding his thoughts on Iraq (Levin-Reed amendment) and the absurd role of the current state of affairs of partisan politics.

[The Dad]

I would hate to admit that I liked Joe Lieberman too.

He is the Prototypical Nominal Jewish Democrat -- the only reason he's not a Republican is because he knows what they say about us when we're not in the room.

[Benny Profane]

Sorry, but I think the pompous ass can go fuck himself. Arrogant and out of touch with his voters, he's always talking down to me, as though, due to his exalted position, he knows better. Has practically put it that way more than once. And he can't change his position right now - he's too heavily invested in it, just like dumb ass Bushie Boy.

[deliberate]

I get the felling that every single time he opens his mouth he plays devils advocate of any democratic position just to be a huge dick.

[Arty50]

Lieberman is a fucking book burner. Screw that guy.

[RootSkier]

I almost hate to admit it, but the guy is on the ball

You agree with all the neocons, why is this surprising?

[Crass3000]

I almost hate to admit it, but the guy is on the ball regarding his thoughts on Iraq (Levin-Reed amendment) and the absurd role of the current state of affairs of partisan politics.

I agree with you. He's an ounce of sanity in an out of control party. Giving our enemy a game-plan and time-table is about as stupid as telling somebody your in a fight with that you can only take a couple more punches and then you'll be pussing out. It just doesn't make sense but the liberal jack-asses just can't see how stupid they are. I hope the analagy helps but for some reason I know it won't -- you can't teach the blind to see.

But we all know the liberals have a vested interest in Iraq turning out bad. But history will vindicate Bush when shit gets alot worse because we didn't stay and take care of the job.

[montanaskier]

Iraq is the most no win situation ever: leave and Iraq falls further into chaos and all we have done so far trying to get the country right is wasted. Stay and nothing will improve, you can't force a square peg into a round hole, more and more lives and dollars wasted. Makes me want to bite W right in the face.

[Crass3000]

Iraq is the most no win situation ever: leave and Iraq falls further into chaos and all we have done so far trying to get the country right is wasted. Stay and nothing will improve, you can't force a square peg into a round hole, more and more lives and dollars wasted. Makes me want to bite W right in the face.

Well we can agree that Iraq will never be as easy as we hoped and will probably never be a "model" democracy. Probably we should have never got into the mess -- but we're invested now. There are alot of recent reports indicating that things are getting better with the new surge. Sure you can pick or choose who you want to believe but it seems it has been positive so far according to the people with the boots on the ground.

My solution... just take out all the Muslims. It's going to be done sooner or later -- we might as well start now. They've been a pain in the ass for the last few thousand years so if you disagree with me then oh well -- I guess you'ld rather live under their rule. As a country we aren't going to be afforded the opportunity to be nice in war in the future. Things are going to get alot worse in the future -- alot worse. We are the only idiots that fight with a conscience. The Muslim plan in general is to take over slowly but surely like they have in France, etc. They openly admit that. But the only problem is that they aren't worried about diversity. There won't be any diversity once they are in power.

I'm even popping my own popcorn for the douchebag responses.

[Hutch]

My solution... just take out all the Muslims. It's going to be done sooner or later -- we might as well start now. They've been a pain in the ass for the last few thousand years so if you disagree with me then oh well -- I guess you'ld rather live under their rule. As a country we aren't going to be afforded the opportunity to be nice in war in the future. Things are going to get alot worse in the future -- alot worse. We are the only idiots that fight with a conscience. The Muslim plan in general is to take over slowly but surely like they have in France, etc. They openly admit that. But the only problem is that they aren't worried about diversity. There won't be any diversity once they are in power.

Here's my "douchebag response," Crass:

You are absolutely fucking batshit insane.

[Tippster]

Why stop with Muslims? Let's take out the Christians too. Historically they've killed more people in the name of God than any other religion... by far. Then when we're done witht hem we move on to the Hindus. Those dothead fuckers are bound to get all uppity n'shit.

[Crass3000]

Why stop with Muslims? Let's take out the Christians too. Historically they've killed more people in the name of God than any other religion... by far. Then when we're done witht hem we move on to the Hindus. Those dothead fuckers are bound to get all uppity n'shit.

Hindus are on my good list. I don't see them talking about taking over countries and imposing their way of life. In general I like almost all religions in a philosophical way but I'm actually not religious.

[GoldMember]

Get the Sikh's 'cause they're sick and all that too.

Truth is in Iraq, as badass as Saddam was, you really need someone like that to hold order when you've got factional divides like they've got. Now though, there's no going back and trying to find a reasonable solution seems unlikely. The outcome will likely be 3 different nations with the Kurds, Sunnis, and Shiites having their own areas. The real problem is the economics of that division as the Shiites will wind up with the vast majority of the oil resources. Them having all the oil money will only lead to further unrest down the road. That place will likely never have peace so long as religious furvor remains and oil is the monetary commodity it is. Our best bet is to develop alternative fuel sources and not have national interest in the Middle East anymore. That still won't solve the crisis or the fanaticism of the crazies who want to take over the world but we should at least try unhook our own economic interests the best we can.

[Crass3000]

Get the Sikh's 'cause they're sick and all that too.

Truth is in Iraq, as badass as Saddam was, you really need someone like that to hold order when you've got factional divides like they've got. Now though, there's no going back and trying to find a reasonable solution seems unlikely. The outcome will likely be 3 different nations with the Kurds, Sunnis, and Shiites having their own areas. The real problem is the economics of that division as the Shiites will wind up with the vast majority of the oil resources. Them having all the oil money will only lead to further unrest down the road. That place will likely never have peace so long as religious furvor remains and oil is the monetary commodity it is. Our best bet is to develop alternative fuel sources and not have national interest in the Middle East anymore. That still won't solve the crisis or the fanaticism of the crazies who want to take over the world but we should at least try unhook our own economic interests the best we can.

Yep you may be right in the long run. We may have opened Pandora's Box. But the whole 3 different nations isn't going to sit well with the neighbors in the region. I've heard the Turks are already lining up on the border to control the Kurds since they don't want the Turkish kurds and the Iraqi kurds to join up and take their own region. In any case if we don't establish order it's gonna get ugly. I have to agree in hindsight we probably should have just bitch-slapped Sadam instead of taking him out of power.

[GoldMember]

The Turks have been voicing their concerns since the get-go and rightfully so. Also, with a separation of Shiites, their coalition with Iran is inevitable if Iraq partitions. That increases the complexity of the region. The Middle East is a hellhole that has a greater than even chance of really exploding in the future. I have no idea how this all turns out in the end but the longer we have reliance on foreign oil, the more exposed we are. Add to those regional problems our reliance on Venezuelan oil and our stable buddy Chavez and we're very vulnerable to major economic disaster in the future. Our government should be pouring money into sourcing alternative fuels, not placating big oil. Don't elect Texans! (tongue in cheek for those who might want to flame me on that...)

[The Dad]

But we all know the liberals have a vested interest in Iraq turning out bad. But history will vindicate Bush when shit gets alot worse because we didn't stay and take care of the job.

Bullshit on both fronts.

Assuming that you equate "liberal" with the Democratic party, look at how much support this fuckwit got from Congress long after any possible justification for getting into the war had evaporated.

The only groups of people I can think of who have a vested interest in seeing Iraq turn out worse than it was before we went in in the first place are (a) jihadist Muslims, and (b) apocalyptic Christians. Barring catastrophe or Hillary, the Democrats will take over both elected branches of government in a year and a half. They are among the least interested in seeing Iraq take any further turns for the worse, for the same reason that I, as a dog owner, deeply resent having to pick up another dog's shit.

History will show that Bush invaded a failed country, ruled by a power-hungry madman, for no legitimate reason. And my bet is that history will show that, in his wake, he will have left a failed country, ruled by a different power-hungry madman, probably al Sadr. The cost of this misadventure in blood and treasure is quantifiable. The damage it has done to our standing in the world is unimaginable.

[stupendous man]

My solution... just take out all the Muslims.

That kind of intolerance belongs in...jihadist Iran. Get out of here hater.

[Crass3000]

Bullshit on both fronts.

Assuming that you equate "liberal" with the Democratic party, look at how much support this fuckwit got from Congress long after any possible justification for getting into the war had evaporated.

History will show that Bush invaded a failed country, ruled by a power-hungry madman, for no legitimate reason. And my bet is that history will show that, in his wake, he will have left a failed country, ruled by a different power-hungry madman, probably al Sadr. The cost of this misadventure in blood and treasure is quantifiable. The damage it has done to our standing in the world is unimaginable.

At this point in politics the democrats are bottom-feeding off the bad news in Iraq. The "independant" media constantly reports one-sided reports on the war meant to sway the public away from all the good happening in Iraq. The liberal machine has everything to gain politically from the war in Iraq going south. Assuming things stay as they are the Democrats will surely take power which is what the politicians want -- I am not really talking about your everyday democrat but the politicians. The democratic politicians will be packing their bags if we could pull off a good result in Iraq. Thus their jobs depend on it. So thats why you here all the idiots telling our enemy when we want to pull out, how we are going to do it, etc. The Democrats are basically giving them our game plan which nobody who is serious about winning anything does -- much less war.

To sum it up... Politicians want power. War in Iraq keeps tanking == democrats gain more power. Not too hard to understand but it is hard to understand how they could be so unpatriotic as to give our game plan to the enemy. If you want to debate policy behind closed doors during a war thats good and should be done. But yelling out the game plan borders on treasonous.

Secondly... As far as Bush goes... History will see him as somebody who saw the problem and went after it. They will recognize that he made plenty of mistakes but give him credit for trying to confront a crisis that will ultimately get worse (much like social security that he tried to reform). People in the future are going to be pissed that the Islamic problem was not persued with more vigor and will see him as somebody who fought against public opinion to try to bring a better resolution for generations to come. People in the future will look at Dems and see that they hid their tail between their legs like they always do and didn't have the stomach to do what needed to be done.

To top it off the Dems still have the excuse they like to use that Bush created hate for America where it didn't exist. I think you may want to watch some videos from the past to see how we have been loved for the last 3 generations at least and welcomed with the tired "Death to America' slogan.

[rideit]

But history will prove Bush to have been a pathetic fucktard when shit gets alot worse because he didn't understand anything about the job, and listened to nitwits like rummy and wolfy.

Fixed it.

[mrryde]

But history will vindicate Bush when shit gets alot worse because we didn't stay and take care of the job.

you can't possibly believe this

[Crass3000]

you can't possibly believe this

I know it's hard to think about sticking it out when things aren't going good but we really don't have much of an option. I at least think history will be dissappointed in our generations for not taking care of the problem with a little more vigor and less politics.

[rideit]

I at least think history will be dissappointed in GW and the neocons for fucking up the 'problem' even worse, with little more than vitriol and absolutely no view of geopolitical blowback.

Everything you spew needs fixing, apparently.

[The Dad]

So to clarify: "the problem," as you see it, is "the Islamic problem"? And Bush "went after it" by invading Iraq?

I just want to be sure I understand your construct.

[rideit]

Iraq, the formerly secular nation, that is NOW profoundly Islamic?
That one?

[Crass3000]

Everything you spew needs fixing, apparently.

All I can say is you know how I think and hopefully I'm wrong. Maybe the future won't be as nasty as I envision. Hopefully you're right.