This confirms that Jimmy Carter is relevant...

[Cliff Huckable]

This can only mean Carter has credibility.

Seriously, what is the case FOR Bush?

Before Bush

The regular disagreements and disputes, but there's a general world-wide respect for the USA. Seen as a world leader.


Under Bush

USA feared, but not respected. Seen as dishonest, short-sighted, and neglectful even of its own citizens' well-being and rights.

[deliberate]

Carter is such a troll

[MeatPuppet]

If there was ever a case of the pot calling the kettle black, it's Carter calling Bush a bad president.

Oh, and BTW, foreign police should never be determined by how popular it will make us on the world stage. Like it or not, we are the 800lb gorilla. We didn't get to this place by worrying about what the rest of the world thought of us. There is a lesson in that. We forget it at our peril.

[Jumper Bones]

Why did this need a new thread? Or will you continue to blow Carter in an endless string of new threads? Seems to me the other one would have worked just fine.

[schindlerpiste]

Carter was, and always will be, the poster boy for the left wing. While a great humanitarian, he was sooo bad at running this country, and soooo wrong for the job at the time he was in office, that he had to call someone out before he dies. Having said that, Bush IS not one of the great leaders of the free world. Although he inherited a very bad situation (on many fronts), to call him anything better than a disappointment would, IMHO, be an unfair characterization. He has lost the confidence of the people. He has made many mistakes. He demonstrates poor leadership.

I liked Guilliani's Thursday speech. Is this country ready for a divorced President? Will Gore enter the ring? Stay tuned...

[TNKen]

What did Carter learn while elected?

How to use a hammer and nails. Nothing more. Go figure.

Ken

[haydukelives]

well, he did set a precedent for expresidents to keep shooting their mouth off after leaving office, and clinton has upped that considerably. in the good old days, we never had to hear these jerks forever.

[AsheanMT]

Carter is the mang!! He tried to legalize pot and he's one helluva good negotiator.

[BLOOD SWEAT STEEL]

If there was ever a case of the pot calling the kettle black, it's Carter calling Bush a bad president.

Oh, and BTW, foreign policy should never be determined by how popular it will make us on the world stage. Like it or not, we are the 800lb gorilla. We didn't get to this place by worrying about what the rest of the world thought of us. There is a lesson in that. We forget it at our peril.

Well put. Quoted for posterity.

[Steven S. Dallas]

Maybe the best ex-President ever, but not a great President by any means.

[MassLiberal]

If there was ever a case of the pot calling the kettle black, it's Carter calling Bush a bad president.

Oh, and BTW, foreign police should never be determined by how popular it will make us on the world stage. Like it or not, we are the 800lb gorilla. We didn't get to this place by worrying about what the rest of the world thought of us. There is a lesson in that. We forget it at our peril.

That's oversimplifying it a bit, don't you think?? Sticking to the caveman view of foreign policy doesn't cut it any more. Military might no longer is a determining factor in international affairs, in order to get things done in an increasingly interdependent world requires a hell of a lot of soft power, and President Shit for Brains has completely and thoroughly destroyed any soft power that we had.

Take Wolfowitz's imminent resignation from the world bank. He is being forced out from the World Bank under the guise of "mishandling personnel" ie, his girlfriend situation. Now I hate Wolfowitz, but under every indication, he was doing a good job at the Bank, he was committed to its mission and was working hard to change the way it dealt with corruption. However, 90% of World Bank Staff were opposed to his appointment as President, and that opposition was a direct result of the arrogance which permeated the Administrations foreign policy. And now, he is being removed, that's but one of thousands of examples of how the loss of US SOft power hurts not only us, but the world.

[Benny Profane]

Yea, let's bring back 21% interest rates!

But at least the clown drunk in that family wasn't in the White House.

[grrrr]

The wrong president for the time, but better by far than the one we have now.

And he's right - Nixon was much better at foreign policy than Bush.

[hutash]

Oh, and BTW, foreign police should never be determined by how popular it will make us on the world stage. Like it or not, we are the 800lb gorilla. We didn't get to this place by worrying about what the rest of the world thought of us. There is a lesson in that. We forget it at our peril.

No it is not a popularity contest, but good foreign policy should get us the respect of other countries, which is something we are sorely lacking at the moment. No we didn't get into the mess by worrying about other countries opinions, but maybe we should have, and then we wouldn't be in this mess.

I do not have a problem with Carte calling Bush's foreign policy bad, it is, was Carter's better, probably, but it still wasn't great.

[MeatPuppet]

That's oversimplifying it a bit, don't you think??

Of course it is.

I'm not saying we should act like an 800lb gorilla, doing whatever we want-to hell with everybody else. I am pointing out that we came to where we are by following our internal compass, not by winning popularity contests.

I completely agree with you about the interdependency that exists and is growing in todays world. But sometimes there are things that need to be done that won't make us popular with the rest of the world, and it will be years before we realize any benefit from them. So judging any elected official by what the rest of the world thinks of him right now, today, is shortsighted and inaccurate.

As far as Wolfowitz, I haven't been following this closely, but he does seem to be getting the shaft for reasons other than those stated. It could very well be a result of anti America/Bush sentiment. But we have to accept the fact that the only people who will support and approve of our policies are those who's values and goals line up with ours. Which means that there will always be those who don't like us. We can't use others opinions as a sounding board to determine the soundness of our policies or our leaders.

[MeatPuppet]

No it is not a popularity contest, but good foreign policy should get us the respect of other countries,

Not at all. Borders exist for a reason. The people who reside within their respective borders hold values that are distinct from the people who reside within other borders. That means that there will be competing interests in world affairs. When that happens, I expect our leaders to look out for our interests, at the expense of other nations interests if necessary. That's what we elect them for. Of course we should try to find solutions and make policy that is beneficial to all. But sometimes that is not going to be possible so we can't use others disapproval of our policy as an indication of it's value.

[grrrr]

We can't use others opinions as a sounding board to determine the soundness of our policies or our leaders.

Horseshit. We can and should. A "sounding board" does not imply that opinion is the final determinant, but it is a way to judge what impact our policies will have.

The opinions of others do not need to drive foreign policy, but looking at the implications of those policies on our situation in the world is essential. Let's face it, it was the actions of this nation in the Mideast, at least in part, that prompted the hatred that became the Sept 11 attacks. Bulling our way through the china shop of the world is a great way to make more enemies.

Regardless of world opinion, this administration has been a foreign policy disaster.

[MassLiberal]

I'm definitely not saying that should be the sole determinant of our foreign policy. But we can't act in a manner which shreds our traditional ties, either.

This administration doesn't know how to play the game. Instead of advancing a principled foreign policy, we isolated ourselves internationally by withdrawing from or breaking countless foreign treaties, and then chastised the world when they would not play along with our policy agenda. The result is that we went from being admired, but feared, to being seen as dangerous.

[schindlerpiste]

Horseshit. Let's face it, it was the actions of this nation in the Mideast, at least in part, that prompted the hatred that became the Sept 11 attacks.

I don't see it this way. The Islamic extremists hate us, and want to kill us because of our freedoms (i.e. religious, political, gender and race based). They want us dead because we are free to choose whether we go to church, or temple, or neither. They want to kill us because we are free to choose whether a woman, or man, or black, or white person will have an impact on the policies of this nation. They want us dead because we think differently than they do.
Terrorist attacks against the USA did not start in this country on 9/11/2001, although many seem to think they did. The World Trade Center was bombed in 1993. Remember the USS Cole? IMHO, 9/11/2001 could have been avoided, if the politician heeded the warnings of the 1900s. They didn't, so America paid the price.
The extremists hate us, and it has nothing to do with oil; it has to do with our beliefs, and way of life.





ML: Today, I agree with you.

[Tippster]

If Carter is "irrelevant" why bother responding at all?

[Tippster]

I don't see it this way. The Islamic extremists hate us, and want to kill us because of our freedoms (i.e. religious, political, gender and race based). They want us dead because we are free to choose whether we go to church, or temple, or neither. They want to kill us because we are free to choose whether a woman, or man, or black, or white person will have an impact on the policies of this nation. They want us dead because we think differently than they do.
Terrorist attacks against the USA did not start in this country on 9/11/2001, although many seem to think they did. The World Trade Center was bombed in 1993. Remember the USS Cole? IMHO, 9/11/2001 could have been avoided, if the politician heeded the warnings of the 1900s. They didn't, so America paid the price.
The extremists hate us, and it has nothing to do with oil; it has to do with our beliefs, and way of life.





ML: Today, I agree with you.

Sorry, but you're wrong. They hate us because they see us as occupying the Holy Land when we had troops in Saudi Arabia. They see us as an Imperial Power trying to force our will on them. They literally see themselves as freedom fighters for their way of life.

The US, both by happenstance and by coercive action, is enculturating the world. Kids in Mongolia wear Levis, ferchrissakes.

[Tippster]

Continuing - kids in the jungles of Borneo listen to Madonna (or whatever now.)

Make no mistake - the forces behind the Jihadists are fundamental religious zealots - only different from the falwells of this world in their willingness to advocate violence as a means to an end. They don't care about whether or not we are trying to give them a better life, make the seven seas safer (the Cole) or were fucking invited in by the Govt. (Saudia Arabian bases.) They see us as an enemy because we impede their power over their sheeple.

Is it our way of life? That's waaaay too simplistic. It is something Politicians spew, yet not one Middle East expert will corroborate that (believe me, we tried.) They bomb us for the same reasons Timothy McVeigh bombed us - as retalliation for a perceived attack/insult/whatever. They have no army, hell, they're not a Government. There is no avenue to strike back (outside of calling Boycotts on US goods.)

[Hutch]

The Islamic extremists hate us, and want to kill us because of our freedoms (i.e. religious, political, gender and race based). They want us dead because we are free to choose whether we go to church, or temple, or neither. They want to kill us because we are free to choose whether a woman, or man, or black, or white person will have an impact on the policies of this nation. They want us dead because we think differently than they do.

It has nothing to do with US military bases in Saudi Arabia, the CIA's meddling in their nations' internal affairs, US companies raking cash from their natural resources, and the US complicity in the post-WWII redrawing of the borders in the middle east (i.e. Israel)?

Respectfully, I think you are just buying the GOP propaganda here without considering the history. If we weren't in their dish all the time, they wouldn't have an axe to grind with us, IMO.

[Benny Profane]

And he's right - Nixon was much better at foreign policy than Bush.

Boy, did that guy do a great job of fixing his image before he died. Just beacause he talked to China.......

Let's talk to all the dead Cambodians about his "foreign policy".

[RootSkier]

The Islamic extremists hate us, and want to kill us because of our freedoms

Come on, try to think clearly now. It's OK to use your brain.