This confirms that Jimmy Carter is relevant...

[schindlerpiste]

I agree with Tippster's post 22; When President Saddam Hussein invaded Saudi Arabia's northern neighbor Kuwait in 1990 during the Gulf War, Saudia Arabia immediately requested the deployment of US troops within the country to deter further aggression. Is that an example of the USA "in their dish"? The United Nations MFO peace keepers...is that the USA "in their dish"? Maybe.
I do believe that the USA wrongfully and brazenly thinks that it has the market cornered on freedom, human rights, etc. However, there is more to it than buying into GOP propaganda. I think that the dems. dropped the ball in the 1990s, and that has a lot to do with the GOPs current hardline tactics. Certainly, there was a breakdown of intelligence and/or deception surrounding the Iraqi invasion. The current administration has done a bad job, no doubt. But, I think that my initial characterization is a simplified and uncomplicated version of reality.

We all have opinions.

[Mcwop]

Boy, did that guy do a great job of fixing his image before he died. Just beacause he talked to China.......

Let's talk to all the dead Cambodians about his "foreign policy".

Or Lyndon Johnson's brilliant foreign policy. So basically, we now we have two sucky President's hailing from Texas, and at least one sucky President from Georgia. That is a total of three sucky presidents. So, now we need a contest to see who sucked the most? If you suck, you suck, and trying to say someone sucks more than you suck is borderline retarded.

[Benny Profane]

Or Lyndon Johnson's brilliant foreign policy. So basically, we now we have two sucky President's hailing from Texas, and at least one sucky President from Georgia. That is a total of three sucky presidents. So, now we need a contest to see who sucked the most? If you suck, you suck, and trying to say someone sucks more than you suck is borderline retarded.

Dude, all that caffiene is too much. chill.

[Grange]

I agree with Tippster's post 22; When President Saddam Hussein invaded Saudi Arabia's northern neighbor Kuwait in 1990 during the Gulf War, Saudia Arabia immediately requested the deployment of US troops within the country to deter further aggression. Is that an example of the USA "in their dish"? The United Nations MFO peace keepers...is that the USA "in their dish"? Maybe.
I do believe that the USA wrongfully and brazenly thinks that it has the market cornered on freedom, human rights, etc. However, there is more to it than buying into GOP propaganda. I think that the dems. dropped the ball in the 1990s, and that has a lot to do with the GOPs current hardline tactics. Certainly, there was a breakdown of intelligence and/or deception surrounding the Iraqi invasion. The current administration has done a bad job, no doubt. But, I think that my initial characterization is a simplified and uncomplicated version of reality.

We all have opinions.

So now its the Democrat's fault the Republicans got us into this clusterfuck? No, you're not political at all.

[schindlerpiste]

If you read my posts, you will note that I disagree with many Republican policies, as well as Democratic philosophy. The way I see it, I call a spade a spade. I don't agree with something just because it is asserted by a political party.

If anything, I tend to side with the Libertarian point of view. But you are right, I am not political, except to say: "Give me an issue...I'll give you a tissue...You can wipe my ass with it." (Lou Reed)

[Cono Este]

In other foreign policy news... The Chinese are now sinking their dollars into private equity while we, uh umm, fight terrorism?

Now those guys are smart.

[flowtron]

We didn't get to this place by worrying about what the rest of the world thought of us. There is a lesson in that.

No shit.

I like how I completely disagree with your overall perspective, yet taken in a certain context, I agree. The Bush admin does not worry about what the rest of the world thinks, and now we are in this sweet place. A lesson indeed.

[MeatPuppet]

No shit.

I like how I completely disagree with your overall perspective, yet taken in a certain context, I agree. The Bush admin does not worry about what the rest of the world thinks, and now we are in this sweet place. A lesson indeed.

"Presidents who seek to change the nation's direction know that they are bound to alienate those who profit from the status quo. Great presidents go ahead anyway. "Judge me," FDR said, "by the enemies I have made." Truman's approval rating at the end of his presidency was down to 31 percent. Look where he ranks now."

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...hlesinger.html

There is no way in hell I am going to go out on a spindly limb and say that Bush is a great president; let me say it again, no...way...in...hell I'm going to make that statement. That's not why I posted this.

I posted this quote to point out that a presidents popularity is no indication on how history will judge him. All we know is that he has made some very bold moves and it isn't looking that great right now. But neither you nor I know how history will judge him. Sitting around and saying that "history will judge him in this way or that way" is not letting history judge him. It's making a judgment right now.

I would say the same thing about any president regardless of party affiliation.

Do you think that the 71% of the population who disapproved of Truman said "He's a great president, but I disapprove of the way he is running things"? LOL! They said the same things about him that people are saying about Bush, namely, that he is a terrible president.

Nation building is not something that can be started and completed in two terms of a president. His time in office will be judged by what comes afterwards, and unless you are professing supernatural insight into the future, both you and I will have to wait and let history judge him.

"It ain't over till it's over"
-Yogi Berra

[flowtron]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say Bush is a crappy president, his administration sucks and history will agree. I have a feeling its only gonna git worse for the ole boy and his whole posse. FOIA's a bitch. Redactions be damned!
If I'm wrong, in 30 years I'll buy you a beer.

Lets not talk about "nation building", that gives me the creeps.

[MeatPuppet]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say Bush is a crappy president, his administration sucks

I'll move over and make room for you on that limb. Although I think you will go further out on that limb than I will.

and history will agree.

Bwhahahahaha!

If I'm wrong, in 30 years I'll buy you a beer.

Deal.

Lets not talk about "nation building", that gives me the creeps.

It doesn't give me the creeps, I just think it's...I'm searching for a word: shortsighted, maybe. A sustainable nation reflects the values of the people who live within it's boarders. Fundamentalist Muslim values do not lend themselves to democracies. Especially when you have waring factions within the same borders. I think it's doomed to fail, but nothing new happens until something new happens...

[Benny Profane]

I just listened to the Fresh Air podcast of last Wednesday, 5/16, an interview of Charlie Savage, a Pulitzer winning legal reporter from the Boston Globe. He talks about Monica Goodling, the woman who worked under Gonzales at the Justice dept, quit, and refuses to testify in front of congress. Scary stuff - in short, Pat Robertson's law school, (Regent), from which she graduated, has 150 employees in the Bush adminastration. A law school that begins classes with 10 minutes of praise Jesus shit. And is laughed at in the world of legal scholars.

I bring this up, because sometimes I think this is why Iraq exists. To divert attention away from us getting raped.

[natty dread]

Scary stuff - in short, Pat Robertson's law school, (Regent), from which she graduated, has 150 employees in the Bush adminastration. A law school that begins classes with 10 minutes of praise Jesus shit. And is laughed at in the world of legal scholars.

Just when you think you think that Bushworld can't get anymore absurd, you hear this. 150 employee from a fake law school...
I go out on that limb with you flowtron.

[MassLiberal]

Dude, That limb has been broken due to heavy traffic. Bush is the worst thing to ever happen to the United States. Who ever follows has a lot of hard work to clean up, and I'm not sure it is entirely possible.

[Cono Este]

Dude, That limb has been broken due to heavy traffic. Bush is the worst thing to ever happen to the United States. Who ever follows has a lot of hard work to clean up, and I'm not sure it is entirely possible.

Maybe I should go on a diet?

[flowtron]

It doesn't give me the creeps, I just think it's...I'm searching for a word: shortsighted, maybe. A sustainable nation reflects the values of the people who live within it's boarders. Fundamentalist Muslim values do not lend themselves to democracies. Especially when you have waring factions within the same borders. I think it's doomed to fail, but nothing new happens until something new happens...

If nation building is what this whole debacle is evolving into, the only choice is partition. Retaining the same ruler-straight lines created by European powers in a different century and trying to make it work by throwing more of our troops into harms way is never going to work. Unfortunately, partition and its potential aftermath do not lend themselves to the resounding "military victory!" that this administration seems to be looking for.
You have a good, brief definition of a 'nation' in your 2nd sentence, I think theres nations to be had there, but its going to take some epic diplomacy, not a military victory.

I think Fundamentalist Muslims love democracy, look at Hamas, look at whats occuring in Turkey.