It runs in the family

**summit** · 05-13-2007, 09:27 AM

RIP McKay... condolences to his family.

Condolences to the Millers for having to suffer such a person in their family.

Kenney can burn in hell as a murderer.

Props too Floyd... it took balls to stop and try to help instead of running away.

Originally Posted by Cliff Huckable

1) What "IT" runs in the family?

2) "Authorities said Floyd was justified in shooting Kenney" - that is just fucked up. WHat is this the Wild fucking West? So, if I happened by andf saw this Floyd guy shoot Bode's cousin is it OK for me to shoot Floyd?

Kenny shoots a cop and runs him over. Floyd stops to help the cop. An armed Kenny is still there. Floyd orders to Kenny to drop his weapon, but he refuses.

A murderer with a gun, who will not drop it, is a deadly threat and that justifies the use of deadly force.

**Jer** · 05-13-2007, 09:33 AM

Originally Posted by Cliff Huckable

2) "Authorities said Floyd was justified in shooting Kenney" - that is just fucked up. WHat is this the Wild fucking West? So, if I happened by andf saw this Floyd guy shoot Bode's cousin is it OK for me to shoot Floyd?

Oh for fuck's sake.

The usual douchebags crying about how The Man is out to get them.

Maybe the guy shoulda used a tazer. Unless of course Kenney was on PCP.

Oh my God! They killed Kenney! You bastards!

**trainnvain** · 05-13-2007, 10:23 AM

You can officially fuck off with that thread title.

**Trackhead** · 05-13-2007, 10:50 AM

Please remind me, who pulled the trigger first?

That's what I thought.

**Blurred** · 05-13-2007, 10:54 AM

What a crazy fucking story.

Sounds like the two of them had an ongoing personal feud, making this scenario unique in itself.

**hemas** · 05-13-2007, 11:30 AM

Vibes for the McKay family...

As for Kenney, well DUI's should be shot.

**brice618** · 05-13-2007, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by MeatPuppet

Then you are guilty of fuzzy perception and incorrect valuations.

To judge a person based on their race or sex can lead to horrible atrocities, as you allude to. But to refuse to judge a person based on their actions leads to the same place.

It is not only proper, but necessary, to judge a person based on their actions and the choices they make.

Maybe if people had been a little quicker to judge others based on their actions, the word "Holocaust" wouldn't carry the horror that it does today.

To make no judgment is just as bad as making a judgment for the wrong reasons.

I have been trying to put that into words in these threads for so long. That was a great post.

**Cliff Huckable** · 05-13-2007, 12:48 PM

TrackPuppetMeatHead: You're getting things confused - I'm not defending the guy who killed the cop.

There are two issues, indeed two crimes, here:

1) The shooting of Cpl. Bruce McKay.

2) The shooting of Liko Kenney.

Either you believe in the rule of law, or you don't.

This passer-by is not a police officer. His son is not a police officer. Therefore they have no business picking up police officers' guns and shooting people.

Nevermind that their "assessment" of the situation is a civilian, or amateur, assessment - they should NOT be acting as police officers.

In that situation, their duty as citizens is to report what they've seen to the police - and that's it.

They took the law into their own hands, and killed a man. Whether that man is guilty of crime has nothing to do with it. Those passers-by are not qualified, and have not been given the power and authority by the state, to decide whether or not anyone should lose their life.

Over a couple hundred years the legal system has been developed and refined. It is as it is for good reason.
Allowing citizens to make spur of the moment judgments on some stranger's life is to operate as if there is no legal system at all.

Do you really want to live in a society where the rule of law is optional?

Do you think you're somehow exempt from being judged a similarly by some passer-by? And don't tell me you wouldn't break the law or be in such a situation - you don't actually have to be a threat, you only have to be a threat in the mind of the untrained passer-by.

**summit** · 05-13-2007, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by Cliff Huckable

This passer-by is not a police officer. His son is not a police officer. Therefore they have no business picking up police officers' guns and shooting people.

He doesn't have to be a police officer to defend a fallen man, officer or citizen, from his attacker.

If you see some dude raping a 10 year old girl in the alley, you don't have to be a sworn officer of the law to intervene.

If you see some dude shoot and run over another dude, you don't have to be a sworn peace officer to intervene.

But you had better act within reason and the law. And these folks did. And the authorities think so too.

Nevermind that their "assessment" of the situation is a civilian, or amateur, assessment - they should NOT be acting as police officers.

In that situation, their duty as citizens is to report what they've seen to the police - and that's it.

They took the law into their own hands, and killed a man. Whether that man is guilty of crime has nothing to do with it. Those passers-by are not qualified, and have not been given the power and authority by the state, to decide whether or not anyone should lose their life.

See above... they have no legal duty to anything, even make a report. They did make a report though. The son called on the police officer's radio while the father moved to protect. They were then apparently under threat by a MURDERER HOLDING A GUN. They reacted appropriately.

You are always granted the authority to self defense.
"Life, liberty, persuit of happiness."

Do you really want to live in a society where the rule of law is optional?

They obeyed the rule of law. Society is full of sheep, sheepdogs, and wolves. Not all the sheepdogs need to have badges. It appears that you would have everyone be a sheep.

Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! I refuse.

Do you think you're somehow exempt from being judged a similarly by some passer-by? And don't tell me you wouldn't break the law or be in such a situation - you don't actually have to be a threat, you only have to be a threat in the mind of the untrained passer-by.

I expect that if anyone, passerby, police officer, etc, saw me shoot a police officer and run him over with my vehicle, and I had the gun I murdered the officer with and was in a threatening position, and I was ordered to drop said gun and I refused, I expect to take fire.

**MeatPuppet** · 05-13-2007, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by Cliff Huckable

There are two issues, indeed two crimes, here:

In that situation, their duty as citizens is to report what they've seen to the police - and that's it.

They took the law into their own hands

Do you really want to live in a society where the rule of law is optional?

You are mistaken and you don't seem to understand your right or duties as a citizen of the United States.

"cit·i·zen's arrest (sĭt'ĭ-zənz)
n.

An arrest made by a citizen, for whom legal authority arises from the fact of citizenship, rather than by an officer of the law."

http://www.answers.com/topic/citizen-s-arrest

Do you really want to live in a society where nobody will attempt to stop a crime they see in progress or come to the aid of a fallen law enforcement officer?

**CRACKER** · 05-13-2007, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by Cliff Huckable

TrackPuppetMeatHead: You're getting things confused - I'm not defending the guy who killed the cop.

There are two issues, indeed two crimes, here:

1) The shooting of Cpl. Bruce McKay.

2) The shooting of Liko Kenney.

Either you believe in the rule of law, or you don't.

This passer-by is not a police officer. His son is not a police officer. Therefore they have no business picking up police officers' guns and shooting people.

Nevermind that their "assessment" of the situation is a civilian, or amateur, assessment - they should NOT be acting as police officers.

In that situation, their duty as citizens is to report what they've seen to the police - and that's it.

They took the law into their own hands, and killed a man. Whether that man is guilty of crime has nothing to do with it. Those passers-by are not qualified, and have not been given the power and authority by the state, to decide whether or not anyone should lose their life.

Over a couple hundred years the legal system has been developed and refined. It is as it is for good reason.
Allowing citizens to make spur of the moment judgments on some stranger's life is to operate as if there is no legal system at all.

Do you really want to live in a society where the rule of law is optional?

Do you think you're somehow exempt from being judged a similarly by some passer-by? And don't tell me you wouldn't break the law or be in such a situation - you don't actually have to be a threat, you only have to be a threat in the mind of the untrained passer-by.

Just admit dood your a COP HATER!

**Trackhead** · 05-13-2007, 01:16 PM

Originally Posted by Cliff Huckable

TrackPuppetMeatHead: You're getting things confused - I'm not defending the guy who killed the cop.

There are two issues, indeed two crimes, here:

1) The shooting of Cpl. Bruce McKay.

2) The shooting of Liko Kenney.

Either you believe in the rule of law, or you don't.

Agreed on point one.

Disagree on point two being a 'crime'. I see your point on citizens practicing vigilantism, but in this particular case, I think it was warranted. That, of course, is open to interpretation. Hence the nature of this thread.

I feel black and white interpretation doesn't work here. Some shades of grey would should be considered.

**summit** · 05-13-2007, 01:19 PM

Originally Posted by answers.com

United States

All states other than North Carolina permit citizen arrests if a felony crime is witnessed by the citizen carrying out the arrest, or when a citizen is asked to help apprehend a suspect by the police.

hmmmmmm

**greg** · 05-13-2007, 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by MeatPuppet

Then you are guilty of fuzzy perception and incorrect valuations.

To judge a person based on their race or sex can lead to horrible atrocities, as you allude to. But to refuse to judge a person based on their actions leads to the same place.

It is not only proper, but necessary, to judge a person based on their actions and the choices they make.

Maybe if people had been a little quicker to judge others based on their actions, the word "Holocaust" wouldn't carry the horror that it does today.

To make no judgment is just as bad as making a judgment for the wrong reasons.

i see you are supporting my argument.

**TJ.Brk** · 05-13-2007, 03:44 PM

Originally Posted by Cliff Huckable

TrackPuppetMeatHead: You're getting things confused - I'm not defending the guy who killed the cop.

There are two issues, indeed two crimes, here:

1) The shooting of Cpl. Bruce McKay.

2) The shooting of Liko Kenney.

Either you believe in the rule of law, or you don't.

This passer-by is not a police officer. His son is not a police officer. Therefore they have no business picking up police officers' guns and shooting people.

Nevermind that their "assessment" of the situation is a civilian, or amateur, assessment - they should NOT be acting as police officers.

In that situation, their duty as citizens is to report what they've seen to the police - and that's it.

They took the law into their own hands, and killed a man. Whether that man is guilty of crime has nothing to do with it. Those passers-by are not qualified, and have not been given the power and authority by the state, to decide whether or not anyone should lose their life.

Over a couple hundred years the legal system has been developed and refined. It is as it is for good reason.
Allowing citizens to make spur of the moment judgments on some stranger's life is to operate as if there is no legal system at all.

Do you really want to live in a society where the rule of law is optional?

Do you think you're somehow exempt from being judged a similarly by some passer-by? And don't tell me you wouldn't break the law or be in such a situation - you don't actually have to be a threat, you only have to be a threat in the mind of the untrained passer-by.

How in the fuck was it a crime to stop that guy. He just killed a cop. He had a gun. He knew his life was basically over. If that man hadn't of killed him I can see this guy taking alot of other people out because he has nothing to fucking lose.

He would have killed others. Get it. He would have killed others. He was drunk and had a gun, and already killed/murdered a public servent. Not just killed but murdered and mutilated a the poor Police officers body when he ran over it. Repeatedly from what I've heard.

The man stopped Bode's cousin from killing/murdering other poeple. Frankly they should give the guy a medal.

And you are a asshat

**Trackhead** · 05-13-2007, 03:56 PM

Hey Greg,

Tell me what value the cop killer had to offer to society after he had gunned down, killed, and ran over a cop?

Is your happy little Euro community going to nurture him back to a loving, productive life here on earth? Is he a budding flower, waiting to bloom in your mind? Do you see lost potential in his death?

Sorry, I don't. I see a very disturbed individual who was of no value to society. Someone who has no respect for life, or others. This is not to say I'm glad he's dead, I would have rather seen him sent to prison for life. To suffer in misery for the pain he caused. His death was too convenient for him.

There is no happy little rehab here, Mr. Euro. Just a dead human being who did not at all deserve it (the cop).

**jfost** · 05-13-2007, 05:38 PM

yes, but are cops are better than regular humans? Certainly they are better than petty drunken criminals, but what about doctors, nurses, teachers? Are cops better than those people too?

**Dexter Rutecki** · 05-13-2007, 05:51 PM

Originally Posted by Trackhead

Now all the cop haters can SUCK A FAT DICK! Gee, where are you now? Fucking COCKROACH killed a cop. Are you happy?

Yeah, this makes all cops heroes. Check out those fucks in LA who beat the unarmed, nonviolent demonstrators...or the cops in NYC who fuck up anyone who fits the right profile...or cops anywhere else, for that matter.

**Trackhead** · 05-13-2007, 06:43 PM

Originally Posted by Dexter Rutecki

Yeah, this makes all cops heroes. Check out those fucks in LA who beat the unarmed, nonviolent demonstrators...or the cops in NYC who fuck up anyone who fits the right profile...or cops anywhere else, for that matter.

So you're no different than the racist down the street you so despise, generalizing all cops. Guess what, when I was 16, I got robbed at gunpoint by two non-caucasion folks. It wasn't a very pleasant experience. Do I now hold a grudge against all of that ethinicity? Hell no! See, I'm smarter than that. Apparently you are not.

Keep the hypocrisy flowing strong.

**powder11** · 05-13-2007, 07:04 PM

Originally Posted by Trackhead

Sorry, I don't. I see a very disturbed individual who was of no value to society. Someone who has no respect for life, or others. This is not to say I'm glad he's dead, I would have rather seen him sent to prison for life. To suffer in misery for the pain he caused. His death was too convenient for him.

I agree. the kid was fucked in the head and pretty much on a crash course with prison. the passer by who shot him did everyone involved a favor. Id also like to comment that the cop probably could've saved his own life by not trying to play Wyatt Earp with a known dangerous person and simply waited for back up to pick the kid up. anyway you look at it sucks the cop was killed and by no means was this kid justified in his actions.

**Cliff Huckable** · 05-13-2007, 07:26 PM

Originally Posted by TJ.Brk

How in the fuck was it a crime to stop that guy. He just killed a cop. He had a gun. He knew his life was basically over. If that man hadn't of killed him I can see this guy taking alot of other people out because he has nothing to fucking lose.

He would have killed others. Get it. He would have killed others. He was drunk and had a gun, and already killed/murdered a public servent. Not just killed but murdered and mutilated a the poor Police officers body when he ran over it. Repeatedly from what I've heard.

The man stopped Bode's cousin from killing/murdering other poeple. Frankly they should give the guy a medal.

And you are a wonderful chap, wot, wot

I wish you had been there with the cop before he chased the car. You could have said, "Listen to me! I've got powers - special powers! By chasing this car a series of events will unfold that will result in your death!"

If only you and your clairvoyance had been there to save the day.

**Cliff Huckable** · 05-13-2007, 07:41 PM

Originally Posted by MeatPuppet

You are mistaken and you don't seem to understand your right or duties as a citizen of the United States.

"cit·i·zen's arrest (sĭt'ĭ-zənz)
n.

An arrest made by a citizen, for whom legal authority arises from the fact of citizenship, rather than by an officer of the law."

http://www.answers.com/topic/citizen-s-arrest

Do you really want to live in a society where nobody will attempt to stop a crime they see in progress or come to the aid of a fallen law enforcement officer?

Do I really want to live in a society where nobody will attempt to stop a crime they see in progress?
I WANT to live in a society in which people will, using common sense as to the danger to themselves and others, attempt to stop a crime in progress.

Do I really want to live in a society where nobody will come to the aid of a fallen law enforcement officer?
I WANT to live in a society in which people will come to the aid of a fallen law enforcement officer.

Do I really want to live in a society in which people think "coming to the aid of a fallen law enforcement officer" means grabbing his gun and killing someone?
No. To me "aiding" does not mean substituting yourself for the fallen law enforcement officer, it means summoning help. And it does not mean that if your son is summoning help you can substitute yourself for the fallen law enforcement officer.

Here's the rest of the citizen's arrest outline.
I don't see anything there that OK's the use of deadly force.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizen's_arrest#United_States

All states other than North Carolina permit citizen arrests if a felony crime is witnessed by the citizen carrying out the arrest, or when a citizen is asked to help apprehend a suspect by the police. The application of state laws varies widely with respect to misdemeanor crimes, breaches of the peace, and felonies not witnessed by the arresting party. Note particularly that American citizens do not have the authorities or the legal protections of the police, and are strictly liable before both the civil law and criminal law for any violation of the rights of another.[6] In the United States, the police do not have to determine the legality of the citizens arrest and this practice has been greatly criticized.[citation needed]

North Carolina General Statutes do not provide for citizen arrest, but instead provide for detention by private persons.[7] These statutes apply both to civilians and to police officers outside their jurisdiction. Citizens and police may detain any person who they have probable cause to believe committed in their presence a felony, breach of the peace, physical injury to another person, or theft or destruction of property. The key distinction between an arrest and a detainment is that the detainee may not be transported without their consent.

**Cliff Huckable** · 05-13-2007, 07:45 PM

Originally Posted by Trackhead

Agreed on point one.

Disagree on point two being a 'crime'. I see your point on citizens practicing vigilantism, but in this particular case, I think it was warranted. That, of course, is open to interpretation. Hence the nature of this thread.

I feel black and white interpretation doesn't work here. Some shades of grey would should be considered.

We still disagree, but I appreciate what you're saying.

**TJ.Brk** · 05-13-2007, 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by Cliff Huckable

I wish you had been there with the cop before he chased the car. You could have said, "Listen to me! I've got powers - special powers! By chasing this car a series of events will unfold that will result in your death!"

If only you and your clairvoyance had been there to save the day.

You are still an Asshat that ripped off the reall "Cliff Huckstable's" handle in here. So there Cop hater

**iceman** · 05-13-2007, 08:10 PM

Originally Posted by BlurredElevens

What a crazy fucking story.

Sounds like the two of them had an ongoing personal feud, making this scenario unique in itself.

dingdingding

This isn't about cop haters and law lovers, it's about a personal relationship that got WAY out of hand. Now both of them are dead, I guess it stops here.

edit: Oh yeah, and a sincere "Fuck You" to Dan for his stupid fucking thread title.