dog work!

**yabyum** · 12-19-2006, 07:39 PM

Any body have any copies of the first buried people drills for a rookie dog? Went up mill creek and had some folks bury my ass, the dog found me but would not dig! she is young and wild and thinks it is great fun!!

**AltaPowderDaze** · 12-19-2006, 10:29 PM

try burying a toy of his/hers. that should prompt some digging. tug and praise are rewards for a find.

btw, you are supposed to dig the hole a day in advance and allow ~10-20 min for scent rise.

**yabyum** · 12-19-2006, 10:44 PM

Heading up Wed. to dig out 5-6 holes W/ high pressure in place they should be good well past the weekend!

**Trackhead** · 12-19-2006, 10:50 PM

PM Redskea for beta.

She works with dogs professionally.

**nesta** · 12-21-2006, 07:02 PM

how old is the dog? what breed? The lack of digging indicates a lack of prey drive, so this needs to be built. Schutzhund can be beneficial, and there are other methods to develop prey drive and pursuit.
As for searches you start with master runaways, hide in one of 6-9 holes or quincies (mounds of snow hollowed out-resembling igloos) with assistant holding dog on lead. Once you are hidden, have assistant release dog while saying "search" but in a tone of voice unlike all other commands. If you and your dog have a good bond she will immediately race to find you. Have rag reward ready on your person. Can begin with hole unblocked or blocked up ( sometimes depends on strength and timidity of the pup) When dog finds you, praise enthusiastically with "good search dog, wow what a search dog" etc, actually pretty well raving loony drill is best (onlookers should be about to call the people in white coats with straitjackets), while at the same time present rag with gloved hands, holding on the ends, and then give good tug of war, keeping rag low and side to side, not up & down and don't let dog have it while pulling away from you, only while coming in to you. Progress to having the dog screened where she doesn't see where you're going, then you go away, but assistant goes in the hole while you come back to her and then get her to search for stranger, who must be well-versed on what to do when found. When the dog digs through blocked up entrances to holes or quincies, stay out of the dog's bubble but encourage to dig. Things like "who's in there?, get him out of there" etc. Don't enter the dog's "bubble" until your quarry has had a good rag with the dog, then you can get in there and rag her and perform the raving loony drill again. Keep switching holes with progression to stranger runaways, 2 people in holes, nobody in holes, but person in shallow grave (completely covered) near holes or quincies. Eventually you can go to articles, but this depends a lot upon age of the dog and endurance. You want to avoid having the dog track the live quarries. But as pups they need to get the association of finding people under the snow is about the greatest thing ever in the world.
This is just a verybrief look at things. Every dog is different. The best thing to do if you're serious about training a dog to become an avalanche rescue dog is take a course. Above all, proceed slowly. You have to know how to read your dog, when she's powering down, interest vs indication, and there's a lot of things you have to know in advance and nip in the bud during the puppy phase in order to avoid problems in the future. Always keep things lively and fun, if you're frustrated or discouraged, the dog will pick up on that, so end your training session pronto if things aren't going well- never lose your cool. Always set the pup up for success and make sure the training session ends with success, and at the same time keep things short and snappy , particularly with obedience work and all training in the early stages. Once a dog is soured on searching, nothing will turn that around. Good luck!

**yabyum** · 12-22-2006, 05:11 PM

Thanks for the beta, the dog is a 13 month old heeler bitch @ 44 lbs. I have to ski or hike with the dog every day to wear her out, she has a ton of energy, and like the herder breeds needs a job! We did lots of hide and seak with some scent work. I have Sandy Bryson's book. I will try the running and me hiding this weekend. I am keeping this at a fun level for the dog, and she loves to play these games. I do not plan to take the dog "pro" but to have a somewhat trained dog I can tour with (shorter trips). As I mentioned she is a herder, and I have seen border collies pick this up...because they need a project

Hope to have some success and have some fun doing it! again thanks for the beta

**eirikainersharp** · 12-23-2006, 11:58 PM

Nesta, thanks for the informative post - I've been thining of doing this too for the last year or so and that was a good summary - I couldn't find Sandy Byrons book on Amazon (I assume you are talking about search dog training) where did you pick it up yabyum?

**nesta** · 12-26-2006, 09:26 PM

you're welcome for the beta- and believe me this was a very condensed summary. Eirik, have you considered joining CARDA? Or are you too just looking for a dog to tour with? There's information at www.carda.bc.ca that can guide you in whether you and your dog have the prerequisites for becoming involved.

**yabyum** · 12-28-2006, 12:48 PM

Eirkainersharp! I got the Bryson book 10 years ago, and it was hard to find then, in these days of amazon, ect. you should be able to find it or something as good. Good news Nesta, took the dog up the local canyon and she found me, completly buried in a shallow hole

(12-14 inches of snow on top) nothing like getting dug up and swapping spit with yer dog!!!

**yabyum** · 12-28-2006, 02:45 PM

Several copies in amazon starting @ 13.00$ ....Gawd the 'net is a beautiful thing! regards yabyum

**eirikainersharp** · 01-10-2007, 12:35 AM

Originally Posted by nesta

you're welcome for the beta- and believe me this was a very condensed summary. Eirik, have you considered joining CARDA? Or are you too just looking for a dog to tour with? There's information at www.carda.bc.ca that can guide you in whether you and your dog have the prerequisites for becoming involved.

I've been thinking about joining CARDA, there's a couple of CARDA dog's out here in Golden and I've been really impressed with them. I plan on getting a new pup and starting work with it next fall but I'm alitle uncertain about breeds. Do you know how husky/malamutes work as search dogs? I am guessing not as well as a hunting dog retriever, lab, shepard etc.

**nesta** · 01-18-2007, 10:33 AM

Talk to Kyle Hale in Golden, he's VP of CARDA, a beginner instructor and handler of some great GSD's. I would stick to male pure bred dogs for avalanche rescue work. Personal preferences are Labs, Golden Retrievers, GSD, Malinois, Border Collies, NS Duck Tolling Retr. There are plusses and minuses for all these breeds, especially if you're a first time handler. If that's the case I think you're better off with a Golden or Lab.

**eirikainersharp** · 01-18-2007, 01:41 PM

I know Hale and his dogs. I didn't know he was such a bigshot in CARDA though.

**Redskea** · 02-14-2007, 02:06 PM

Female crossbreeds can also be good work dogs!

**smalls** · 02-14-2007, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by Redskea

Female crossbreeds can also be good work dogs!

that's good to hear. i'm currently training my border collie/aussie shepherd bitch, and everyone i've talked to has been saying that male purebreds are pretty much the way to go. she's making good progress and absolutely loves searching.

**Redskea** · 02-16-2007, 08:36 PM

In NZ everyone has black lab females, and swear that's the only way to go.
In Canada everyone has Male shepherds and swear its the only way to go.
Here (

) everyone has male goldens and swears......

Desire to work/play is more important than the gender/breed/race/national origin of the dog or handler despite the very strongly held opinions of some (but not all) organisations.

(yeah, I had a horrible day at work to day, discrimination blows.)

**Free Range Lobster** · 03-20-2007, 05:58 PM

Originally Posted by Redskea

Desire to work/play is more important than the gender/breed/race/national origin of the dog or handler despite the very strongly held opinions of some (but not all) organisations.

Just thought I'd drag this to the top.
There's no discernable difference according to gender/national origin. (I'm NOT going to go into breed as there ARE certain breeds that show much higher play/prey drive than others.)

This debate has been dragged up on BELG-L (belgian shepherd e-mail list) about a hundred thousand times and proven completely wrong. (There's atleast 4 dogs (2 male/2 female) that came from my monster's breeder that are equally strong SAR dogs.)

**Redskea** · 03-21-2007, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by Free Range Lobster

Just thought I'd drag this to the top.
There's no discernable difference according to gender/national origin. (I'm NOT going to go into breed as there ARE certain breeds that show much higher play/prey drive than others.)

This debate has been dragged up on BELG-L (belgian shepherd e-mail list) about a hundred thousand times and proven completely wrong. (There's atleast 4 dogs (2 male/2 female) that came from my monster's breeder that are equally strong SAR dogs.)

I posted that when I had just been banned from taking my (operational for 4 years) dog on the hill due to those issues.
After 'negotiations' I was allowed to do a 'test', where my foreign, female, black hairy mongrel preoved she was a good search dog anyway!
Now we are allowed to work togther again I am less bitter and angry!

You are right though, some breeds/mixes are better than others.

**KungFu Eddie** · 07-28-2007, 07:40 PM

Dogs are on the way out for avalanche work. CARWA (Canadian Avalanche Rescue Walrus Ascociation) is the way of the future. It was established last season at Lake Louise and they are doing great work.

**taz** · 07-29-2007, 05:05 AM

Originally Posted by smalls

that's good to hear. i'm currently training my border collie/aussie shepherd bitch, and everyone i've talked to has been saying that male purebreds are pretty much the way to go. she's making good progress and absolutely loves searching.

you have one smart dog on your hands. the plus is the australian shepard has Dingo in them so you know they can drag humans (dingo's got my baby). The australian sherpard can get a little ankle nippy but you'll find that will just pull those not behaving, into the lift lines fine. blue dog, "way back" "push up"