anyone have a meniscus REPAIR?

[GoldMember]

Well, tomorrow is surgery day. Saw my ortho Tuesday and he said the tear is a horizontal shear that surfaced toward the interior portion of the cartilage, which is an avascular area of the cartilage; not reparable.

He claims I can probably walk out from the day surgery clinic but to have crutches available. It's all about pain tolerance and, at first with the meds, shouldn't be too painful. Later when the meds wear off, he thinks I might want the crutches for a couple of days. Other than than, he says I should be able to run within a couple of weeks. I just want to get this over with at this point.

[Vinman]

I just had a scope last week to clean up some old cartilage injuries. walked out of the hospital no crutches, no limp by day 3 no meds by day 4. almost 0 swelling at day 7.

you'll be fine, just remember to keep the leg elevated and ice as much as possible for the first 3-4 days. Keep some compression on too. Also be sure to start some quad sets and or straight leg raises ASAP on day 1.

[GoldMember]

Thanks Vinman. Actually, I'm kind of looking forward to this. I'll quit having this annoying pain in my knee and I get to get a bunch of sleep this weekend in between football games on the tube. Plus, it's my last bit of preparation for the ski season!

[0BernhardFranz]

try australian knee clinic or stone clinic in SF they don´t cut but graft in regrown substance also cool NO 5 http www.drzipplius.com showed healing effects bf or http://liwa.funtigo.com or dr.s.franz@t-online.de

[the_burl]

Hi,

I've enjoyed lurking and reading everyone's posts. i had my meniscus repaired on the 23rd of October. I was allowed to put weight on it right away. Now 16 days out it feels pretty good. i still have some swelling but the PT, ice and alleve has been helping. I noticed that i seem to be one of the only folks to have a repair but allowed to put weight on it immediately.

[upallnight]

Hi,

I've enjoyed lurking and reading everyone's posts. i had my meniscus repaired on the 23rd of October. I was allowed to put weight on it right away. Now 16 days out it feels pretty good. i still have some swelling but the PT, ice and alleve has been helping. I noticed that i seem to be one of the only folks to have a repair but allowed to put weight on it immediately.

hey, t_b:
just wanted to wish you the best with your recovery. i think alot depends on your surgeon's preference...but perhaps another factor is that your tear/repair was in a "safer" place. that would be a good thing.

i'm just under 7 months post-op and doing fine. definitely have some pain (ran 5+ miles a few days ago and still have bearable soreness when running) but nothing debilitating. went out and hiked/skied about 1 month ago. i think my knee can do everything, but it will take some time for it to be able to "do everything all day".

i think if you read this thread you'll realize that my best advice is to work hard at rehab...but DO NOT rush or push things too early. it's not worth it as it doesn't really buy you anything.


good luck to you for a speedy recovery!

[the_burl]

Thanks upallnight. I read the entire thread with great interest. Everyone's recovery tips have helped me very much.

[kipfer]

OK...got some more info after my visit with the doc today.

One point that may or may not be of-interest: He is a physician for the US Ski Team (and apparently travels with them to S America). He knows my activity level and level of sports-related aggressiveness re: skiing/climbing/biking, in particular.

First off, there is still alot of swelling in my knee which, to him, is actually good. He said some docs will drain the knee, but he doesn't believe in it. This is causing the limited range of motion -- but my extremely limited range did have him a little concerned.

My particular repair was pretty delicate, even as far as repairs go. There is a chance it may not heal (as with all repairs),and the problem is that you just never know if it healed or not...until it tears again. In that event, the only course of action is to remove it (not what I want).

It's pretty unlikely for anything bad to happen in the first 3 mo as the sutures are really strong in holding things together.

He said that docs have differing professional opinions on the subject -- some say no weight bearing whatsoever, others move to weight bearing pretty quick. His experience in the middle of that range has served his patients well.

That said...as of now (2 weeks post-op), he wants me moving to 50% weight-bearing w/ crutches. At around a month, he will quickly move me off crutches.

No one was concerned with the atrophy (they are confident it will come back and feel there is not much to prevent it at this stage)...and they said that I will get much of my range of motion back with the first 2 P.T. visits.

I'm imaging those 2 PT visits will be pretty rough.

He did still suggest ice and elevation, so I'll stick with that.

His experience suggests that someone with this injury *probably* shouldn't play basketball or soccer if they don't mind giving that up, as he has seen that tends to be much more likely to cause bigger problems. (I have no problem giving up either if it means I can still be hardcore at my chosen sports.)

If all goes smooth, I could be riding a bike on level ground @ 4 weeks...and I would be clear to ski and climb at 3 months.

One question I need to think about is that if I try to reward/motivate myself with a trip to the Southern Hemisphere to ski....is that wise because what if I get injured right away and am 1,000s of miles from home? It doesn't seem like there's a way to "gradually" ramp up and test the repair little-by-little...you just have to get into the bigger stuff and find out what happens.

Hmm.

Thanks for the opinions and information you have posted. I hope this is information someone may find useful.

I definitely feel more at ease after this visit. My head started to spin thinking I was way behind, but now I am reassured just hearing once again about the range of severity, even within this one injury.

Yours sounds a bit like mine. I tore the meniscus loose, both sides right knee,while skiing-(downhill lift served, good timing ). That was 7 years ago. The Doc said that he could try stapling it back into position into blood bearing bone though he had never done that in an old fart like me, or he could remove it. We gave it a go and that knee is still better than the other one that I tweaked skiing in Cortina 40 years ago. I remember being on crutches for about a month with a knee brace limiting movement. The knee brace limiting movement remained on for a longer period after that. I did many reps of tensing the quadriceps against the opposing muscles and had no significant atrophy over the 6 month recovery period. I suppose that nowadays electronic stimulation would be possible. I remember it was a kick to watch the proceedure on their tv screen while they worked on it. Its a shame that you can't see what the endodontist is doing to you during a root canal ,but he doesn't need a monitor.

[0BernhardFranz]

You can do exercises to help keep your muscles in shape with out bending your knee. get on the stright leg raises and quad sets and do as many as possible. see if you can count to a million.

just about everyone who has been through a major knee problem probably wishes they would have done more of these exercises in the beggining becuase your muscles really do dissapear fast.

I went from 79 to 69 kg after injury all legs that disappeared.

[upallnight]

Just a quick update not too far into the ski season.

Early season, I made a few hikes & short descents. Felt good to work out the knee and overcome some mental demons. The knee held up alright on those outings -- but I didn't do any hike more than 1h.

I've skied the last 17 days in a row (tomorrow'll be 18), and I've got a forced day off as I have to leave town for work for a day. The knee is definitely s-o-r-e.

I haven't made it bell-to-bell (not even close), and I've been trying to pace myself. I'm way down in both strength and endurance as far as the knee is concerned. It's definitely frustrating to recognize that I have less control over that leg, and it means I'm shakier all around. Kind of irritating to know you can and have done some stuff, but it's just not possible to do it at the same speed and with the same style as before (not *yet*, that is).

I've been trying to stretch quite a bit, which does help. Usually after getting home I attempt a few single-leg squats. I can't stand back up under my own lower with the knee bent more than 10-15*...it's that fatigued. Sad.

Yesterday, on the first run I already felt the major soreness & fatigue set in; I only lasted <10k vert. When I'm out there, I at least try to go my normal speed, even if I can't do it. Chalky/bumpy snow on big fat boards is definitely alot to ask at this stage.

I try to stay positive and definitely try not to have any voluntary days off
the hill. I think I might have to accept that during this time I may need to
resign myself to taking a few days of the week "easy" and skiing some high speed groomer laps to reduce the chatter and its effect on my knee until it's stronger.

Had I not worked so hard over the summer & fall at rehab, I know I wouldn't even be close to doing what I'm now doing, so I take solace in that.

For now, cranking on the downhill ski on steep, firm snow is really not happening...at least not without major soreness/pain.

It'll all be OK. Just wanted to record some progress for any future viewers of this thread. I'm 8 months post-op.

Off to take some laps...

[upallnight]

(one of) the most painful parts of the day is clicking into my binding. today, i didn't even have the knee strength to step into a DIN 10 binding with the right leg w/o some assistance from the hand.

[beaterdit]

Dude, soreness is to be expected, and getting into the binders is often the worst part. It took me a whole season to do that pain free after my first ACL. Here's to the rest of your season. Just pace yourself. There's alot more skiing to be done yet.

Me, I'm about to resurrect my thread. I had one great day without pain, I skied the next and called it after three [silverton mtn] runs 'cause my knee was sore. It swelled up within a couple hours and two weeks later it's still too painful to ski.
???
Guess I'll be seeing a doc soon.

[booner]

I did mine a few years back. I would suggest taking it slow. Rushing it will get you back out there a little faster, but not that much faster. And you would be increasing your chances of having long-term problems. It seems like the pain will never go away, but it will and that's the time to rehab...of course I'm no doc, but it worked for me and I've never had a problem since.

[BestofShow]

I went under for a medial meniscus repair on 11/14, and made my 1st day out of the season this past Sat. here on the EC, so about 10 weeks post op. I had my acl done 3 years ago, and that managed to stay intact, but the first few weeks were slow progress. Managing to fit at least 5 workouts in a week def. paid off, and I ski'd hard without reserve. Couldn't have been happier.
Rehab started with ROM/strengthening and progressed to agility drills by week 7. I can't express how important flexibility is too (esp the hamstring). I def still compensate slightly to the injured leg, but overall good reactions.
Soreness came with every new exercise introduced, and even during the morning this past sat. A good ice down and stretch after every workout will keep you progressing, but keep in mind too much can be a setback. Overworking and causing extra swelling won't allow the joint to continue strengthening; it will have to recovery from being overworked.
I couldn't have cut it closer, seeing that I am headed to the Vail area on Fri, and then to JH later next week. I dont plan on being able to ski 9 days straight, but certainly won't hold back.

[upallnight]

10 weeks out? Nice, BestofShow! I can't imagine that I would have been able to ski on mine 10 weeks post-op... I was still relegated to the gym.

That said, I'm not 9.5 months post-op/post-injury (had the operation the day after my injury), and I've skied ~65 days so far (max was 31 in a row). My knee swells up nightly and I ice & elevate (& occasionally take some vitamin I). It took me at least 30 days before I started feeling more of the symmetry on snow.

Also, the 2nd batch of 30 days or so have had about twice the amount of skiing in the same amount of time. (I.e., I was able to ride for longer/faster.)

I've also started skate-skiing again after DH skiing. Trying to do that daily for 1-2h to keep things loose.

Hiking/skinning is still a chore (pain).

Hang in there!

[billg69gmc]

My original post was strangled due to log in crap...oh well... the short of it.

Im 2 months post - op, and THEY dont tell you everything you need to know.

If they dont tell you about taking ibuprofen, smack the biotches. My leg from knee down blew up to where I thought i had a clot. basterds.

Dont wait on things... demand the Aircast Cryo/cuff for you knee. It allows you to freeze the shiiit out of the knee and keep swelling down. Changing water out is a breeze.

Purchase compression socks PRIOR to surgery. This will let you keep swelling down as you get up and about to keep you muscles in at least some state of exercise.

[upallnight]

My original post was strangled due to log in crap...oh well... the short of it.

Im 2 months post - op, and THEY dont tell you everything you need to know.

If they dont tell you about taking ibuprofen, smack the biotches. My leg from knee down blew up to where I thought i had a clot. basterds.

Dont wait on things... demand the Aircast Cryo/cuff for you knee. It allows you to freeze the shiiit out of the knee and keep swelling down. Changing water out is a breeze.

Purchase compression socks PRIOR to surgery. This will let you keep swelling down as you get up and about to keep you muscles in at least some state of exercise.

Hey there. Just wanted to offer some encouragement to you. My surgery center gave me the ice pack/water flow thing when I left the hospital; also, they forced me to use compression socks for 2 weeks. I could barely move -- I basically wasn't able to change my own sock for the first 2 weeks due to immobility (and I was on my own at the time).

The nurse expressly told me NOT to take ibuprofen.... and I only later realized (2 weeks later when I spoke to the doctor) how wrong this was.

Eat lots of anti-inflammatory food like canned pineapples. It really does help. Stay away from sugars & salty foods.

I'm at about 9.5 months post-op and am creeping up on 90 days skied, although this is definitely taking a toll on my knee.

Good luck with your continued recovery.

[upallnight]

ok... here's a 10.5-month update.

"swollen" has been my knee's regular state for a while now. i have skied the last 20 days in a row (1 day off before my last streak) and about 90 overall for the season. my skiing has not been at the same level of pre-injury skiing. many days have been partial days, and all my days in the BC have been less than 6,000 vertical.

i finally caved and went to see the doc today. he drained 60 CCs of fluid from my knee and felt that the most likely reason for this is a failed repair.

i have had some grinding sensation when fully extending my knee, and there's definitely been asymmetry in my skiing, but i thought this was normal in the recovery.

i'm on a heavy anti-inflammatory medication right now and will ski for the next week or so. if the swelling returns, i need another MRI to confirm whether they need to cut me open again.

take-aways for anyone reading this (and unfortunate enough to have this knee injury):
1) when you are debating whether to have a removal or repair, know that your recovery from a repair is going to be very challenging;
2) if you select a repair, know there's a good chance of it not working so your PT work may be for naught. (there are reasons to try a repair, but be aware of the downside and likelihood of a less-than-positive outcome when you make your decision)
3) if you get any swelling, definitely go see your doctor ASAP.

i'm pretty hopeful that things may still be favorable, but i'd like others to go into this with eyes open and (i hope) more knowledge than i had at the time of my injury.

[SherpaStyle]

How's it coming? Has it swollen up again? Just curious how your doing after skiing on it this week.

[upallnight]

How's it coming? Has it swollen up again? Just curious how your doing after skiing on it this week.

i was on a heavy anti-inflammatory for 7 days. at first, my knee felt great (well, at first it actually felt terrible due to the residual effects of the needle). i was able to walk down stairs without pain and bend quite a bit. i guess the swelling had crept up on me gradually so that i didn't realize how severely i was impaired.

i had a few great days skiing (my instructions were to go bash it around).

a week later i had some minor swelling which was a likely indicator that the repair failed (so much so that the surgeon feels and MRI is unnecessary). my knee is basically a time-bomb, and in a matter of time it will lock up (/if the tissue flips like it did during the first tear).

i've still been getting out daily, but the pain is returning. something's not right. to say that i was disappointed to hear i need more surgery is an understatement -- particularly after the difficulty in rehab'ing this injury. it's hard to accept that it was all for nothing and that all the days of enduring pain that i thought were helping make me stronger meant absolutely zilch.

i need more answers from the doctor about recovery time, expected ROM, and more details around some "lifestyle" changes he casually mentioned but did not expand upon. a meniscectomy, as he told me went i first went in, is the first step in the end of your knee. this is the justification he used for trying to save the tissue and try a repair.

i've got to make an appointment for surgery. i've got 103 days on snow... so maybe i'll ski another week and call it quits for the season...and begin rehab/focus on the future.

if this surgery could make me get back to 2005/06 form, i would be ecstatic. i've been in pain every day of this ski season and have skied some lines i wanted but never in the style i liked. very frustrating.

how are you coming along?

[SherpaStyle]

Damn! Sorry to hear that. I hope surgery/recovery goes better this time. I know a lot of people who ski w/o a meniscus, so maybe it wont be as bad as he's making it out to be.

I'm doing pretty well. I still haven't really started PT (except leg lifts, quads sets, etc.) due to current ROM, but I'm going back next week. I'm at 70 degrees now, so I feel good about that. It doesn't hurt much, just when I am going up/down inclines/stairs. It looks like I'm going to work in dispatch for at least the beginning of fire season and then I'll probably go to the district and work on an engine/helicopter when I feel up to it. I'm pretty psyched on that b/c I would have been stressing if I had gone back to the shot crew. I'm still attached to the crew and can go back whenever I want, just detailing for awhile. I'm definitely going to benefit in the long run because I'm getting a lot of training that I haven't had time to get on the shot crew. The paychecks are going to hurt though.

[upallnight]

hi, sherpa--
from what i hear, short term implications of not having a meniscus are minimal -- but long-term it means an accelerated path to arthritis. we shall see, i guess!

going down stairs, i find, is the toughest thing and the last thing to ever feel good. glad you are psyched and doing well.

sometimes these injuries give us a chance to focus on or get strong in other areas of life -- at least that's how i try to get through it.

[drmark]

I know that people freak out when the conventional wisdom is defied.

Dr. Donald Shelbourne in the Am. J. of Sp. Medicine, in late 2006 published a ten year follow up of a large number of people who had a bucket handle tear of the medial menisus removed and they were compared to those who had a meniscal repair by quantative X-ray evaluation of the joint space.

There was no signifigant difference. To me, that means that doctors and patients have sure put in alot of unnecessary efforts.

[Vinman]

bummed for you UAN ++ vibes and wishes for a speedy recovery on the next go round.

[upallnight]

I know that people freak out when the conventional wisdom is defied.

Dr. Donald Shelbourne in the Am. J. of Sp. Medicine, in late 2006 published a ten year follow up of a large number of people who had a bucket handle tear of the medial menisus removed and they were compared to those who had a meniscal repair by quantative X-ray evaluation of the joint space.

There was no signifigant difference. To me, that means that doctors and patients have sure put in alot of unnecessary efforts.

This is good information to have. Thank you, Dr. Mark. My hope is that patients who have a repair as an option see this thread and can make an informed decision. At the time of my injury, I was in pretty intense pain and had to make a decision quickly; I found little meaningful information on meniscus repairs w/o associated ACL injuries, so I had to trust in my doctor. Perhaps knowing about that study would have made for a different decision.

It is hard to think that the difficult recovery from that was for nothing, but I guess that's part of life.

bummed for you UAN ++ vibes and wishes for a speedy recovery on the next go round.

THanks, Vinman. I appreciate all the contributions you make to this forum and how you help folks out. I'll recover, I'm sure -- and get back to 100% (or beyond!).

These kinds of setbacks test our character and mind. Forced time indoors can be uncomfortable for all us uber-active people...but it's also a good opportunity to develop other areas of ourselves. I'll take it as a good opportunity for me.

Gotta go order a bike trainer now....