Sunday Evening Question: Sticks and Stones...

**Kevo** · 03-11-2007, 10:22 PM

Originally Posted by Free Range Lobster

Howabout...

Some examples?

Other than lobbyists trying to make a buck (which is actually happening in a town here in MA right now)

Seriously, what the fuck are you talking about?

You come out and make up a quote saying that I believe that calling people racial slurs is cool.
-you offer no reasoning for this

I come back and explain that what I said has nothing to do with racial slurs and offer some examples of what I am talking about.
-you still offer no reasoning for your initial comment
-you ask for examples when I just gave them to you

WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?!?! I feel like I am talking to a three year old. Perhaps you would like to offer some sort of explanation for what exactly you didn't like in my first comment, but you are seriously lacking any sort of logical argument.

**Free Range Lobster** · 03-11-2007, 10:24 PM

Originally Posted by Kevo

Seriously, what the fuck are you talking about?

You come out and make up a quote saying that I believe that calling people racial slurs is cool.
-you offer no reasoning for this

I come back and explain that what I said has nothing to do with racial slurs and offer some examples of what I am talking about.
-you still offer no reasoning for your initial comment
-you ask for examples when I just gave them to you

WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?!?! I feel like I am talking to a three year old. Perhaps you would like to offer some sort of explanation for what exactly you didn't like in my first comment, but you are seriously lacking any sort of logical argument.

Ok, you're on fucking crack. people still call police officers policemen. People still call fire fighters firemen. Unless you live in some touchy feely place like... I don't know... Florida or some shit nobody actually give a flying fuck what you call a cop.

Where the living hell are you getting all this "OMG PC POLICE ARE COMING FOR ME" bullshit?

**Hook** · 03-11-2007, 10:25 PM

Political correctness is simply consideration for someone else’s feelings.

People should be allowed the choice whether or not they chose to be considerate.

Anything forced upon people is not going to work. It just angers people to be corrected on their spelling, grammar and racial views.

It’s not hard to figure out when you’re in the presence of racism or just ignorance.

**Hook** · 03-11-2007, 10:29 PM

Psst Likwid lobster.........Fl is far from touchy feely.

unless your Mark Foley

**Kevo** · 03-11-2007, 10:30 PM

Originally Posted by Free Range Lobster

Where the living hell are you getting all this "OMG PC POLICE ARE COMING FOR ME" bullshit?

DID I EVER SAY THAT?

I'm done with this. You still have not offered any reasoning for your initial fake quote.

**Phill** · 03-11-2007, 10:32 PM

Fuck political correctness in the ass. I say what I want bitches. If I cencor myself to protected the "delicate" feelings of others all I am doing is patronizing them which is worse IMO. Besides words are only as offensive as the intent behind them.

**MeatPuppet** · 03-11-2007, 10:36 PM

Originally Posted by BlurredElevens

I'd also like to state that LB seems to think "niggardly" is a racist statement.

hehehe. I was going to say something but he's drunk so I thought I should just let it go

Edit: Sweet! Thanks mrryde.

**WhiteLight** · 03-11-2007, 10:50 PM

Originally Posted by Phill

Fuck political correctness in the ass. I say what I want bitches. If I cencor myself to protected the "delicate" feelings of others all I am doing is patronizing them which is worse IMO. Besides words are only as offensive as the intent behind them.

Sure, if your goal in dealing with other people is one-way communication, go ahead, fire your mouth off at will. In the end, it'll be your loss, because you will miss out on actually making real connections with a range of people. You'll have to just stay in your own safe niche of friends who put up with you.

It's not necessarily about delicate feelings. It's about showing respect, and treating others as equals until they prove they are otherwise.

Words are not only as offensive as the intent behind them, though that plays a part. When you speak to someone, they are not inside your head, so how can they divine your intent?

People only spew slurs because they can get away with it. I'd love to see some of the bad-assed "I'll say what I want, when I want, to whom I want" take that attitude into a situation where they will get their ass beat down.

**powder11** · 03-12-2007, 12:18 AM

Originally Posted by BlurredElevens

Being PC is just being fake.

Fake people offend me much more than insecure racist bigots. At least the racists will be honest with you and let you know where they stand. That means a lot more than a douche who acts like he likes you, when he actually has a deep seated hatred for you.

I guess words only have the power that you give them anyway.

I'd also like to state that LB seems to think "niggardly" is a racist statement.
Just because a word comes close to another offensive word, that doesn't mean jack. It's not my job to teach you the english language. If the word offends you, that's your problem, not mine.

I agree fake people suck, but in what context do you think someone could use the word "niggardly" and it not be offensive in normal conversation? just curious.

**hop** · 03-12-2007, 12:23 AM

Originally Posted by powder11

I agree fake people suck, but in what context do you think someone could use the word "niggardly" and it not be offensive in normal conversation? just curious.

Dude, you wouldn't understand. Blurred can relate like nobody else.

**WhiteLight** · 03-12-2007, 12:35 AM

The word niggardly is not related to the word nigger. It is more akin to the word niggle.

(Which, I suspect, Lemon Boy might very well have known; and, by adding it to his list, was just tweaking our noses.)

Edit: For any word-wonks among us, the word's origins are discussed here:

http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-nig1.htm

**Blurred** · 03-12-2007, 12:39 AM

Originally Posted by powder11

I agree fake people suck, but in what context do you think someone could use the word "niggardly" and it not be offensive in normal conversation? just curious.

The word has never been used as a racist term. Like I said, it's a word that has NOTHING to do with the word nigger.

nig·gard·ly /ˈnɪgərdli/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[nig-erd-lee] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective
1. reluctant to give or spend; stingy; miserly.
2. meanly or ungenerously small or scanty: a niggardly tip to a waiter.
–adverb
3. in the manner of a niggard.

Like I said, simply because a word sounds like another, it's not offensive. Those who don't know it's meaning is a product of ignorance, and their fault if they find it offensive, not mine.

Do women get offended when the British say the word can't?

Maybe even Hop can figure that one out.

**MeatPuppet** · 03-12-2007, 12:45 AM

Originally Posted by powder11

I agree fake people suck, but in what context do you think someone could use the word "niggardly" and it not be offensive in normal conversation? just curious.

You probably couldn't, but...

"Niggardly is a word synonymous with stingy and miserly, and a niggard (noun) is a miser. They are both derived from the Old Norse verb nigla, meaning "to fuss about small matters". (The English word "niggle" retains the original Norse meaning.)"

The fact that some(many) would be offended by the use of this word is an example of the misplaced, hyper-sensitive ignorance that the PC movement has produced.

I'm not saying that this is horribly or has any appreciable effect to our ability to express ourselves. But it is unnecessary friction, and I'm not sure how our society is served by it.

**WhiteLight** · 03-12-2007, 12:53 AM

Originally Posted by bklyn

If Pakistani people do not want to be called Paki, for example, or X people do not want to be called Y, why is that seen as a burden? No sarcasm intended, only genuine curiosity.

What is it about this aspect of "Political Correctness" that people find so objectionable?

I'll take a swing at the question.

A few possible answers:

- Some people think that showing consideration for others is a sign of weakness. If you are top dawg, you don't have to pay heed to those around you, right? What they don't realize, of course, is that kindness and generosity of spirit is a sign of strength. Their loss.

- Some people have bought into the myth of the Rugged Individual, who lives outside Polite Society. Ok, that's fine, if you are living out in the boondocks, and not interdependent on others. But if you are posting to this forum, chances are, you are hooked into civilization. And if that is the case, you do NOT have the luxury of pretending your well-being is not linked to that of others. You might wish that were the case, and maaaybe you can get away with it while you are young and strong, but wait until you are old, disabled, or otherwise not a fucking Ayn Rand sociopathic self-absorbed fuck. (Sorry for the mini-rant.)

- Some people have never left the small pond they grew up in. If any one of these tough-talkers were to do some serious international travelling, where they found themselves further down in the pecking order, they might realize that it is best to mind one's mouth.

- Insecurity. Have you ever noticed how people who really have it together, are the top cat in their field of endeavour, are rarely blowhards? People who have it going on know the value of working with others, of thinking about the other guy, vs. insisting on some limiting "right" to be an asshole.

**powder11** · 03-12-2007, 12:54 AM

your right about the definition B11. however, many people relate it to the other word. knowing that, why would you use that word in normal conversation? just not to be fake? I think most people choose to use PC terms not because they want people to think highly of them, but instead they think highly of whom they're speaking to. its obvious you dont give a fuck and I bet thats been a limiting factor in your life.

**Lone Star** · 03-12-2007, 02:37 AM

in principle, fuck PCness. but as I have gotten farther away from Texas, I realize things that had no mean or hateful connotation (in my naive? perception, perhaps) can be hurtful to folks who are from outside that sphere. even if it's not meant that way. I remember a particular instance when I usedq the phrase "indian giver" about half a dozen years ago and got a tongue lashing that quite honestly, shocked me. To me, it was nothing but a colloquialism, but it was taken as a slur and the reaction reflected that. Without really knowing how people of other locations and cultures perceive foreign dialects and manners of speaking, it's difficult to even know HOW or WHEN or with WHAT speech to be sensitive.

Most people could probably stand to be more sensitive.

But, most people could probably stand to grow a thicker skin.

ANyone see the recent South Park? Pretty funny- and relevant to this discussion.

**lemon boy** · 03-12-2007, 07:47 AM

powder11: how could I use the term niggardly in normal conversation and not sound fake? Well excuse me but some of us have working vocabularies and are not afraid to bust out the word that best convey a meaning without like, you know like saying he was all like not uhhhh like generous and shit like you know?

And yes B11, I do know what the word niggardly means and used it as a prime example of PC run amok, when the PC vigilantes in the end extract their pound of flesh in the complete absence of any legitimate claim to being offended and rather as a way to simply cover their complete ignorance and disregard for words and their meanings.

**Free Range Lobster** · 03-12-2007, 07:59 AM

Originally Posted by Lone Star

in principle, fuck PCness. but as I have gotten farther away from Texas, I realize things that had no mean or hateful connotation (in my naive? perception, perhaps) can be hurtful to folks who are from outside that sphere. even if it's not meant that way.

And most of Texas is the middle of bumfuck nowhere.
Ever swing towards Alpine? I've heard people openly comment that "that was the first n****r they've seen in a month!" Man thats mightly cultured of them.

I remember a particular instance when I usedq the phrase "indian giver" about half a dozen years ago and got a tongue lashing that quite honestly, shocked me. To me, it was nothing but a colloquialism, but it was taken as a slur and the reaction reflected that.

If you were saying it in jest, that was a pretty extreme response.

Without really knowing how people of other locations and cultures perceive foreign dialects and manners of speaking, it's difficult to even know HOW or WHEN or with WHAT speech to be sensitive.

So just don't use anything that could be construed as being "un-PC" when you're not in a familiar location? I mean its not that hard.

Most people could probably stand to be more sensitive.

But, most people could probably stand to grow a thicker skin.

The beauty of this being, people can do what they want, they can be offended by what they want.

Queue PC BS: Maybe if people weren't such assholes or ignorant towards other people this world might be a slightly better place.

**Tippster** · 03-12-2007, 08:03 AM

I have decided that everyone who calls me a "Cracker" gets called a "Spearchucker." There was a guy who asked me "What the fuck are you looking at, Cracker?" while I was walking through a park here in DC. He was just trying to break bad in front of his friends. I paused, smiled, and answered "Cracker? Just one funny looking Spearchucker, I guess." They stared at me for a moment, started cracking up, then offered me a beer. (The reason why I was looking at them in the first place, wondering if they were going to get busted for an open container in a 1 block square park in the middle of town at noon on a Wednesday.)

**Free Range Lobster** · 03-12-2007, 08:13 AM

Originally Posted by Tippster

I have decided that everyone who calls me a "Cracker" gets called a "Spearchucker."

Ok cracker.

**Jer** · 03-12-2007, 09:26 AM

Is the word "douchebag" offensive? Because this is a real douchebag thread.

**powdercow** · 03-12-2007, 10:19 AM

Everyone who really like racism raise your hand. Everyone who enjoys bigotry and genuinely wants their children to grow up in a world where ancestry is how people are measured please stand up.

Nobody? Well Then I guess we are all on the same team.

The question now becomes: Is this “pc experiment” that we are trying working? Is it getting us closer to our goal of a more humane, peaceful, harmonious world, or is it possible that like the “war on terror” it is actually exacerbating the problem it seeks to solve.

I don’t claim to have done an exhaustive study but in my limited experience the latter is true. I would love to hear others experience with this, because if I am wrong, and it is working then it’s surely worth any inconvenience it causes.

One last thought is that history has shown that the worst way to cure a social ill is to push those who exhibit it to the fringes of society. Maybe it’s time we try something else.

**road trip** · 03-12-2007, 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by bklyn

Some people outside these groups seem to want to reserve the right to use these words, whether or not they may be offensive to others. Is this automatically evidence of racism/sexism/homophobia? How else would you categorize it?

If Pakistani people do not want to be called Paki, for example, or X people do not want to be called Y, why is that seen as a burden? No sarcasm intended, only genuine curiosity.

You know, I think Lemon Boy hit the nail on the head. There are really only two motives for people to use offensive words: biggotry or ignorance.

If one doesn't know that a word is offensive and uses it, you can typically tell by the way a person says it which way he is leaning. For my example, one of my college roommates explained to me that "Oriental" might be construed as biggoted by some "Asians" because it was a word that was put upon the people of the "Far East" by Europeans (which doesn't explain why "Asian" is okay, but I digress). I had no idea until he told me, and was appreciative of it. That said, it isn't a very charged word and even knowing that, my girlfriend who *is* Asian prefers the term Oriental. Go figure.

If one knows that a word is offensive and uses it... well, what other explanation can there be?

Me, being a very curious individual... often hedge my conversations carefully when being inquisitive. I like to learn about other cultures and other people different than me and, thankfully, have that opportunity now where I live and work. I have many friends of wide ranging backgrounds - Middle Eastern, Indian, Asian (of multiple countries), West African, East African, etc.. and when I read something interesting, or just have a question, they know where I'm coming from and help me learn. But at one point, I was much more naive, and ended up insulting people when I didn't intend it. It's been live and learn and I got a late start growing up in that rural and isolated corner of New Jersey (in all seriousness).

**powndnstein** · 03-12-2007, 11:07 AM

In matters of speech i would have to say that pc is a simple form of censorship and that what truly matters in speaking and conversation is not the word or words, but rather one's manner, attitude, and tone of voice, as an example a person could say "good morning Mr. Jones" in such a way that it actually means "fuck you."