Ski Ramblings 2007 (EHPs, etc)

[Phill]

I would like something similar to a 189 squad or ANT

pretty different skis right there. In terms of flex and tail shape atleast

[Professor]

So.... you're saying your go-to ski in UT is a powder ski, but the EHP (for you) needs too much pow before you bring it out? Did I get that right?

I skied mine today on alot of groomed stuff & they were a blast. I actually find them to be more an all-around ski than a quiver ski... particularly surprising given their width.

Sorry, maybe I should have said they were too much of a "deep day" ski. The Squads rock until it is over 7-8 inches deep. The EHPs seem to perform best when it was MORE than that deep. Sorry, but living in Utah, there is pow and then there is POW

[upallnight]

Sorry, maybe I should have said they were too much of a "deep day" ski. The Squads rock until it is over 7-8 inches deep. The EHPs seem to perform best when it was MORE than that deep. Sorry, but living in Utah, there is pow and then there is POW

Yes... I understand now. Thanks.

Interesting that our experience is so different with them!

Squads + EHPs sound like an ideal 2-ski quiver for you, but it seems that you are searching for something that has the deep-end covered and some overlap (for you) with the Squads.

[Professor]

Yes... I understand now. Thanks.

Interesting that our experience is so different with them!

Squads + EHPs sound like an ideal 2-ski quiver for you, but it seems that you are searching for something that has the deep-end covered and some overlap (for you) with the Squads.

I get the feeling you think I am bad mouthing the EHPs, that is not the case, they are just not for me. The big problem is that even a "deep day" ski at Bird needs to be able to cover 1000 feet of crap/groomer at the bottom of the mountain. That is the only place I did not like the EHPs. Come ski the Bird with a foot of fresh up top and 4 inches of mank at the bottom and you will understand. On a normal year those conditions may never happen, but this year they did and I didnt care for the EHPs under those conditions. No big deal

[upallnight]

I get the feeling you think I am bad mouthing the EHPs, that is not the case, they are just not for me. The big problem is that even a "deep day" ski at Bird needs to be able to cover 1000 feet of crap/groomer at the bottom of the mountain. That is the only place I did not like the EHPs. Come ski the Bird with a foot of fresh up top and 4 inches of mank at the bottom and you will understand. On a normal year those conditions may never happen, but this year they did and I didnt care for the EHPs under those conditions. No big deal

No... I didn't think you were badmouthing them at all -- I was just posting my own impression (which happened to be quite the opposite from yours) so that others could make their own decision after hearing multiple opinions.

I regularly ski a mountain that has 4,000+ vertical with variable conditions from deep pow to hardpack to mank to bumps. More than any ski its size, I felt the EHPs handled it all very well. Just my opinion, and clearly folks have different impressions of the ski. It's all good.

[teambigdave]

Professor
i think the ski you're going to want might be the 192 Bro. super smooth in variable snow and great in powder. i'm going to try to fly to slc this week. you should give mine a ride

[Particle]

sorry -- i wasn't trying to be mean at all (maybe dense) -- i just was looking for more insight.

i thought the sumo had a much different shape/sidecut than it actually does (if squirrel's comment is accurate) -- if it's an explosiv + 3, then things make perfect sense to me. (then again, if it is just an explosiv + 3, i'm not sure why there was a lot of fanfare over it -- was it really just the leather top sheet and short length??) sorry for being slow, but i guess i was not up-to-speed on the sumo.

also, i'd have to disagree with you on any non-traditional ski being "more than a handful" on the lower half of a mountain. i would have agreed with that when the only shape out there was the spat, but after skiing the EHPs for about 20 days and the dp 120s for the past few (and 2nd-hand accounts of other, newer shapes), i respectfully must disagree.

you might want to try one of those shapes if you haven't done so already (maybe you have).

i apologize to all for the apparently obvious question and appreciate the info on the sumo.

^uncunting El Chup's Iggy FFF thread...

UAN, I know what you are saying. I have skied Spats and EHP's, as well as 'hybrids' like the Prophet 130's which have the widest point of the ski approx. 20cm back from the tip, but maintaining a normal camber and sidecut under most of the ski. I have not skied the Lotus 120's yet but I would love to try them out.

I found the EHP's manageable on the bottom of the mountain. They are WORLDS better than a Spat or similar true reverse camber ski on variable/hardpack/groomer terrain, but still not great. They were kinda shifty - even one of the 4FRNT guys told me about crashing hard on some flat groomers due to that very issue. I really like the EHP and would probably consider a pair next year, depending on how the other skis like the Rocker and Hellbent, etc., look. I think a big issue with Prof is that he teles, so that shifty/not-quite-reliable stability at speed on hardpack is even more exaggerated than on alpine.

A big part of the issue here is just the ability to lay a ski over, and just RAIL a turn all the way through without fear of it washing out in the tail, which is what the EHP wants to do at the end of a turn. They are great skis, I like them a lot, but they aren't for everyone.

[Phill]

UAN: professors dislike of the EHP is NOT a personal attack against you, stop acting like it.

[pechelman]

They are great skis, I like them a lot, but they aren't for everyone.

not to put words in his mouth, but I think UAN would be the first person to agree that no one peice of gear is for everyone.

i think hes just trying to fully understand the prof's decisions since they seem to have opposite opinions of the same ski.

Ya know, like the saying goes, the best way to defeat your opponent is to understand how he thinks. Well, I dont know if thats a saying at all, but you get what im saying.

UAN: professors dislike of the EHP is NOT a personal attack against you, stop acting like it.

hes not, see above


edit: to add, I think this is a great discussion. The skis Im most interested in now all seem to be the EHP193/DP120 shape with a bit of tip rocker.

[Particle]

The skis Im most interested in now all seem to be the EHP193/DP120 shape with a bit of tip rocker.

Me too. I'm also really curious about a reverse camber/normal sidecut ski as well. Next year should be interesting (seeing as how I somehow missed ALL the demos this year...grrr).

[upallnight]

UAN: professors dislike of the EHP is NOT a personal attack against you, stop acting like it.

WTF are you talking about, son?

sorry in your world that questions and exchange of information constitute an attack. people learn from this stuff. if you have nothing to learn, move on.

[upallnight]

I found the EHP's manageable on the bottom of the mountain. They are WORLDS better than a Spat or similar true reverse camber ski on variable/hardpack/groomer terrain, but still not great. They were kinda shifty - even one of the 4FRNT guys told me about crashing hard on some flat groomers due to that very issue. I really like the EHP and would probably consider a pair next year, depending on how the other skis like the Rocker and Hellbent, etc., look. I think a big issue with Prof is that he teles, so that shifty/not-quite-reliable stability at speed on hardpack is even more exaggerated than on alpine.

A big part of the issue here is just the ability to lay a ski over, and just RAIL a turn all the way through without fear of it washing out in the tail, which is what the EHP wants to do at the end of a turn. They are great skis, I like them a lot, but they aren't for everyone.

i can see that someone on tele gear would put more pressure on the front of the ski (with the rear leg), and that would be super-squirrelly.

not really sure how the EHPs would cause someone to beater on flat terrain -- they are NOTHING like spats, as you know, and while not railing every groomer by working the ski from tip to tail, they are far from unstable. that sounds like a freak occurrence to me.

thanks for the reply. the real question was that prof was selling the EHPs because they were a "quiver ski" for deep days and the squad was for everything else. so, the decision to buy a sumo surprised me, as that seems like another quiver ski. they are big and soft (no? maybe that's what he wants...but someone who genuinely loves the 19x squads seems unlikely to want a soft ski) and (to me) seem like even more of a quiver ski.

again, thanks for the reply. i was mainly trying to understand the logic of trading from one quiver ski to another. the stuff about wanting the FFFs also confused me as i don't think i've ever heard someone debating between 260 flex 190 FFFs & a sumo -- the seem like polar opposites.

[Phill]

WTF are you talking about, son?

sorry in your world that questions and exchange of information constitute an attack. people learn from this stuff. if you have nothing to learn, move on.

Just saying that you seemed really agressive in response to each one of the proffessors posts. however I apreciate the learning, am sorry for being a tool, please ignore me and carry on.

[upallnight]

Just saying that you seemed really agressive in response to each one of the proffessors posts. however I apreciate the learning, am sorry for being a tool, please ignore me and carry on.

if you are correct in that i seemed aggressive, i apologize to those involved. that is not my intent. i just wanted to understand the situation and learn from it, myself. having more information helps me talk about these skis, as when i ride them i tend to get many questions. if i can add some other opinions to my own first-hand experience, i can give better advice to people in the future.

i don't think that electronic communication does a great job at communicating tone as we really don't hear the inflection in someone's "voice", and readers have to guess as to the intent. i should have been more explicitly inquisitive if there is any doubt of my meaning.

[Z]

WTF are you talking about, son?

sorry in your world that questions and exchange of information constitute an attack. people learn from this stuff. if you have nothing to learn, move on.

Your input is great UAN, don't stop posting it.


Personally I've found the EHPs to be sketchy when taking serious speed over heavily cutup snow/hardpack. The tip is just too long and soft (at the very top) to deal with serious speed in those conditions. They just get knocked around. I really noticed coming into the runout at Telluride at about 40. I was just holding on while the tips almost hit my knees, while on my FFLs or Elans, I could have busted through it with some GS turns (I think). Granted, my EHPs have seen lots of days, and the tips are slightly more rockered and a bit softer I think.

Still, because it's so stiff underfoot you can technique out/overpower the tip deflection in most situations. However comps are not most situations, and that's where I realized the true limitations of these skis. But they really kill it in almost all situations, and ski somewhat short compared to other skis I've skied (Big daddies, 192 Elan 777s<----SICK by the way). That said for skiing fast in pow and stomping airs to pow, they just plain rule. The sidecut allows you to actually put the ski on edge and "carve" in certain types of pow, then pop to your next turn like a race ski on a groomer. Unreal.

I orginally bought EHPS cause I thought they could do absolutely everything. They can't really do that for ME. Im really not a quiver person as I like to really get to know a pair of skis so they are predictable in all situations...

The real place EHPs shine is stomping airs in pow. Especially the deep stuff. When you get that tip floating, it's not going ANYWHERE. And when you land something, there is enough pressure on it to rise to the surface immediately - and that means 4 point landings in pow. $$$


2 cents deposited.

[upallnight]

^^^^ Good info.

Yeah, a comp situation is cool because you're really likely to redline a ski and assess it's capability at the margins of its performance.

What will you compete on in the near future?

I found them to flot over cut-up stuff pretty easily at speed, although the stuff I was on may not have been as cut-up and/or maybe have been softer (less set-up) than what you were dealing with. I agree with you on "carving" in pow and, fortunately, have not seen the ski change for the worse in my 20 days on them.

I have only 2 days on the 120s (and different bindings), but I have found some differences, and some cases where I prefer the 120s. It is hard for me to review a ski when all I'm skiing is pow, as pow is so easy to ski. I like to put a ski in challenging places/conditions to really compare it to other experiences. I will post more info on the 120 when I feel like I have something worthwhile to say and not just off-the-cuff.

[Z]

^^^^ Good info.

Yeah, a comp situation is cool because you're really likely to redline a ski and assess it's capability at the margins of its performance.

What will you compete on in the near future?

I found them to flot over cut-up stuff pretty easily at speed, although the stuff I was on may not have been as cut-up and/or maybe have been softer (less set-up) than what you were dealing with. I agree with you on "carving" in pow and, fortunately, have not seen the ski change for the worse in my 20 days on them.

I have only 2 days on the 120s (and different bindings), but I have found some differences, and some cases where I prefer the 120s. It is hard for me to review a ski when all I'm skiing is pow, as pow is so easy to ski. I like to put a ski in challenging places/conditions to really compare it to other experiences. I will post more info on the 120 when I feel like I have something worthwhile to say and not just off-the-cuff.

Probably elan 777s, but i'd like some squad 89s. I think the 120s get the nod for how light they are, as long as they improve the topsheet durability a bit. Otherwise EHPs are some of the burliest skis I've ever been on. Last time I checked I think they only have 1 small edge compression, and they've seen alot of rocks. Even landed a 20 footer to rock and they didn't flinch. Did that on my big daddies and they exploded.

My perfect quiver would be Squads, Elan 777s, and lotus138s (or something similiar). Starting to see the no sidecut in pow light...


Edit- the "cut-up" stuff im talking is pretty setup or windpacked stuff. Can be blown through with a stiff ski, but deflected a bit with the EHPs. EHPs own lighter cut-up stuff, or cutup pow.

[Professor]

Jesus Fucking Christ! I get more feedback than Brittany Spears shaving her head

OK, here goes one more time. Yes, the Sumos may be softer than 194 Squads. However with the shape and a touch of camber they should be able to carve a turn to scrub speed on funky groomed/packed snow. That is the only thing the EHP would not do for me. Yes it will turn. But its shaped does not allow you to just turn (not slide) to control your speed on hard snow. This may be no big deal for some, but I do not want or like to skid a turn to slow down. I have been controlling speed with turns, when necessary for WAY too long. The EHPs shape, and long shovel and ramped tail simply would not do what I wanted. I hope the Sumos will. On days that arent deep and you can carry speed I will still be on my Squads. And before anybody says it (and "yes" I have had a few beers).... you are either full of shit, or dont know what you are talking about if you think you can ski fast in 20 inches of untracked blower. Not an attack on anybody, but I see it coming. As for UAN, it is all good, but the EHPs make the lower mountain more work than I want. Therefore I am trying something with shape and no reverse camber and simply FAT. I will let you know how it works out. Now Particle...stop posting on the intertube and go to bed. You have skiing to do this week

[marshalolson]

hey there grumpy pants

anyhow, the AK XW is not avail till august.

[upallnight]

And before anybody says it (and "yes" I have had a few beers).... you are either full of shit, or dont know what you are talking about if you think you can ski fast in 20 inches of untracked blower.

seconded... if the angle's under 40. i basically had to straightline a few spots today on a 120mm-waist ski through deep untracked, or i wasn't going anywhere.... that is, until the roll-over and i could "plane" above the pow at speed.

[upallnight]

Therefore I am trying something with shape and no reverse camber and simply FAT. I will let you know how it works out.

can we enter a pool for the # of days it takes for the sumos to wind up on gear swap???

(seriously: i hope they work out for you, but it will still surprise me if a 19x squad-lover finds long-term satisfaction in a sumo.)

[Professor]

hey there grumpy pants

For the record, only my wife gets to call me that Thanks for checking on the skis. I broke down and ordered some Sumos to get me through this season.

As for the Sumos, if they can truly carve a high speed turn on a groomer without a fight, they will be fine for deep days and smaller mountains. Again, that is the only issue I had with the EHPs. So I guess we will see....

[upallnight]

Probably elan 777s, but i'd like some squad 89s. I think the 120s get the nod for how light they are, as long as they improve the topsheet durability a bit. Otherwise EHPs are some of the burliest skis I've ever been on. Last time I checked I think they only have 1 small edge compression, and they've seen alot of rocks. Even landed a 20 footer to rock and they didn't flinch. Did that on my big daddies and they exploded.

My perfect quiver would be Squads, Elan 777s, and lotus138s (or something similiar). Starting to see the no sidecut in pow light...


Edit- the "cut-up" stuff im talking is pretty setup or windpacked stuff. Can be blown through with a stiff ski, but deflected a bit with the EHPs. EHPs own lighter cut-up stuff, or cutup pow.

the ehp construction seems pretty burly to me, too, although i have put far less strain on them than you have.

i skied my 120s on a few "aggressive" lines (meaning i didn't baby them and skied some lines where i knew i'd likely hit rocks beneath the surface -- sometimes you just want to f-ing ski where you want to ski, whether it's a brand new set of boards or rock skis on your feet) and they fared pretty well.

can't speak to the long-term, of course, but those were encouraging initial results.

the 120s w/ dynafits are RETARDEDLY light. it could be the ultimate soft snow touring setup for me.

[marshalolson]

prof: ps: lemon boi is brining some lotus' with tele for you 2 to demo.

have at it. just remember the shovel in the new ones is a bit stiffer than the demo ones, and some other minor weird shit i can talk about after you 2 beat the piss out of them for a while.

[Professor]

prof: ps: lemon boi is brining some lotus' with tele for you 2 to demo.

Yeah, I know..... actually I have to turn off my computer since he just showed up and I need to go mount some skis before tomm

Oh and for the rest of you.... go to bed and stop worrying about what skis I like. After all, I think Rossi is going to sell MAYBE 2-3 pair of 194 Squads this year, but I love mine