Ski Ramblings 2007 (EHPs, etc)

**Professor** · 02-22-2007, 04:22 PM

Okay, here goes. I have had a bunch of people ask why I sold my 193 EHPs so here goes the whole story. Lets start with the skis I bought last year (insert Garth and Wayne flashback sounds)

196 and 194 Squads: I got the 196 proto-Squads first and loved them. They were awesome for soft snow and going fast. Got 30 or so days on them and managed to bend them. Fortunately that was when I got the 194 Production Squads. These things are super burly but a bundle of fun and my "go to" ski. The only problem with them as has been noted by others is that they are NOT a pow ski. They are great until it gets deeper than boot top, then they are just too stiff. They much prefer to go fast and make giant turns. When it gets deep enough that you really cant go fast, they simply wear you out. Also both of these skis are killer on the groomed. Kind of like a wide race ski. They also let me ski fast in less than smooth conditions since they plow through everything (pay attention to that factor for later).

Fast forward to the drought that is the 2007 winter. I buy some 193 EHPs after trying them last spring and loving them. Unfortunately the love affair is short lived. We finally got some deep snow and they ROCK. Tried them on some not so stellar days and hated them. For me they are a quiver ski, period. If I kept them they were going to have a 10 inch rule on them and I was never going to the mountain without my Squads "just in case". Again, in the soft snow they are one of the easiest things I have ever skied. The problem was on those smooth soft days (not deep) they felt way too short and I felt like I was getting tossed around. They tend to want to surf over things instead of "plowing" through (told you to pay attention). They also want to skid the end of the turn on hard pack. I could not get used to having to toss them sideways and slide to control my speed on a groomer. I also found that instead of being able to just nuke back to the top of the tram I had to really pay attention and just had to survive anything that wasnt soft. Instead of relaxing while skiing groomers to the base, I had to watch that I didnt hurt myself or others. Please keep in mind that this is coming from a guy that ENJOYS skiing groomers on my 194 Squads. I like carving big turns or just going straight. Despite the overall length of the Squad and the EHP being close to the same, on hard pack the difference in effective edge and stability is enormous. If I didnt ski Snowbird so much I would have kept the EHP. Even for Alta it would be a better ski than the 194 Squad, but when you can really open it up on firm snow, the EHP just never did it for me. I know that isnt what it is intended for, but that doesnt change that is what I want a ski to do.

Fast Forward a bit more. Being bored and having a bent pair of Proto Squads, I decided to bend them some more. I bent the shovels about 8 inches back and gave the tips some rocker. I also tried to ramp the tail to look like the EHP. I got it done, but the tails broke down. The tails are still attached, but most of the structure failed and where they bend they are flimsy. But I finally skied them anyway yesterday. They simply ski.... short. With the rocker and the tail bend they feel tiny. The tail also washed big time on hard snow when you set an edge. Not what I like a ski to do. It was interesting that you could still actually rail a turn but there was less loading of the ski. I think this is what the Hellbent and similiar skis will be like on hard snow. If the bend in the tail had turned out better, I could see myself actually using these on soft days.

So bottom line. "Pintail" ski designs and I dont get along too well. I like something that skis like a fat race ski. Now if I can find something like that that floats better than the Squads (XXLs, Sumos) then I will likely buy it. I am also intrigued by things like the Hellbents (if they were longer) and Salomon Rockers. I think for those of us that dont want a ski to be easy to "butter", something with more of a traditional shape will be really nice.

So as the ride comes to a stop, all of us here hope you all enjoyed this little ride through Professor's thought process and I hope Ptavv gives those skis a loving home

**mc_roon** · 02-22-2007, 05:22 PM

it really sounds like you should try comis.

**Professor** · 02-22-2007, 06:33 PM

Originally Posted by mc_roon

it really sounds like you should try comis.

I would love to. Too bad they only come in a 186

**marshalolson** · 02-22-2007, 07:59 PM

have you taken a spin on the 193 blowers at all?

**lemon boy** · 02-22-2007, 08:10 PM

I'd bet a dollar that they're too turny/big daddy-ie and not gunny enough for him

**marshalolson** · 02-22-2007, 08:21 PM

doesn't he want a pow ski that doesn't suck on the groomers back?

**spindrift** · 02-22-2007, 08:24 PM

Originally Posted by Professor

I am also intrigued by things like the Hellbents (if they were longer)

Got a close up look at some Hellbents yesterday. Someone I know had a pair he'd skied the day before hanging around the shop. I'm not passing any sort of judgment, but whoever it was made the comment that the Hellbents are like soft cooked ramen noodles was not kidding. The tails on those things are eerie flexy soft. Never seen anything like 'em - I bet the tail tips deflect several inches just when you lean the ski up against the wall. Even with "conventional" sidecut, I can't imagine these would ski like anything you'd think of as a conventional ski.

**lemon boy** · 02-22-2007, 08:26 PM

Originally Posted by marshalolson

doesn't he want a pow ski that doesn't suck on the groomers back?

yeah but that doesn't equal turny...blowers have more sidecut than bds and the BDs got the boot for being too turny/easy

**marshalolson** · 02-22-2007, 08:31 PM

hellbents have rockered tails, and are soft as fuck.

though the 189's are more like 194's.

the blower sidecut #'s are misleading though. most of the sidecut is in the tip and tail, and they are fairly straight underfoot. the blowers are also alot heavier and more damp than the 1st gen BD's.

just saying they might be worth a spin if the prof can find some with tele's. plus, they can be had for less than $400 new.

Z · 02-22-2007, 08:35 PM

EHPs are absolutely a quiver ski, I bought them hoping that was not the case. They do ski harder snow pretty well, but no comparison to a ski that it stiff throughout. The soft shovel at the very top is the deal breaker.

**lemon boy** · 02-22-2007, 08:36 PM

Originally Posted by marshalolson

the blowers are also alot heavier and more damp than the 1st gen BD's.

? really? the one guy I spoke to who has blowers thought them even more playful than 05/06 bds which were nowhere near 02-04 bds...oh well the subjective flex monster strikes again.

**leroy jenkins** · 02-22-2007, 09:03 PM

EHPs are odd. I think they need a much stiffer, less ramped tail, maybe a bit more tip rocker, and need to be a bit longer.

Maybe its just my skiing style, but I find these things have the opposite problem of a tip dive. It feels like theres no tail there at all, and you can very easily ending up looking like this"

I am not entirely sure when this pic was taken of me, someone found it on a random site, and sent me a link, but I think I remember some random person snapping a shot of me, that could be this. Regardless, I am pretty sure that this was with a bit of speed, and completly in control. I have never in my life had a problem being too backseat, but these are just a hard ski to stay forwards on.

I look forward to seeing what changes they make with em.

EDIT: cus i wanted to say they still feel stable when doing this/\/\ not out of control at all, just wierd.

**upallnight** · 02-22-2007, 09:28 PM

i need to step in here to the defense of the ehp or, rather, to simply state my perspective.

i've got ~20 days on mine now (= not heavily used), and most of those have actually been on firm days, with some pow days & some cut-up days mixed in. today was a mixture of soft/new, firm/groomed, and melted mash-potatoes in the process of refreezing.

i have to say i really like the EHPs. for me, they power through or over anything in the way. they actually can carve a turn (but a BIG turn) on something groomed, IF you have the patience for it.

the picture above shows someone leaning back, and i don't think you can attribute it to the ski as you probably have plenty of other moments where you are not back seat (and i don't find it a problem to get out in front of them -- but i'm used to having my weight centered).

i really think they are one of the most versatile skis i have ever tried and actually could see someone using them nearly every day @ a resort. i ride 190 gotamas (~25 days so far this season) and g40s (~30 days) most often, but if it wasn't for a wider ski torquing my knee much more (and recovering from a knee injury), i'd ride the EHPs much more.

are they the best ski i've ever ridden in pure pow? on the groomed? in bumps? in mank? in crust? in cut-up snow? in the air?

probably "no" on all accounts... but they are one of those skis that may not finish #1 in any one category but could take 1st or 2nd overall.

caveats: i am riding with AT boots & bindings and am 5'11" <200# including pack.

**marshalolson** · 02-22-2007, 09:33 PM

Originally Posted by upallnight

probably "no" on all accounts... but they are one of those skis that may not finish #1 in any one category but could take 1st or 2nd overall.

i say the same thing about my 120's, which are pretty darn similar to the EHP.

however, the prof kicked bill braskie in the nuts, and just walked away.

**upallnight** · 02-22-2007, 09:50 PM

Originally Posted by marshalolson

i say the same thing about my 120's, which are pretty darn similar to the EHP.

however, the prof kicked bill braskie in the nuts, and just walked away.

have you had more time this year on 138s? any updated comments relative to your 120s?

can i send you my 120s to drill as it seems like it would be faster to send them to you and get them back vs the time it's taking for me to get out the drill on these babies.

**marshalolson** · 02-22-2007, 10:03 PM

the 120/dynafit setup is going to be so retarded. you will dust everyone. up and down.

yeah, i'll write some stuff up at some point. i just don't want to come off as self-serving.

**upallnight** · 02-22-2007, 10:15 PM

i have to admit that i was SHOCKED at how light the 120s were compared to another (shorter, narrower) dynafit setup i took out last week. if i had not been lazy in the mounting, i would have taken 'em out and likely sank less + gone faster on the way up and had more fun in variable conditions on the way down.

providing information with meaningful comparisons is not self-serving... it is more a community service.

no one expects any ski to be *everything* to all skiers, so i think the most valuable parts of reviews are knowing the reviewer's experience & preferences + hearing information relative to other skis. you've got alot of that expereince, so it's appreciated when you share.

peace.

**soul_skier** · 02-22-2007, 10:37 PM

Originally Posted by Professor

I would love to. Too bad they only come in a 186

When they come in a longer length, I'll buy the first pair. I personally am praying for a 196....

**serge944** · 02-22-2007, 10:56 PM

Yeah, the short length is the deal breaker for me on the comis. But then, you have to consider the surface area of these skis - more than dp lotus 138s, or any mass production ski I can think of, for the matter!

Seems like lots of people ski them in my area so hopefully I'll get a chance to try them out someday.

**Professor** · 02-23-2007, 03:11 PM

Just wanted to take a break from digging out the broken water pipe that has kept me from skiing today.... Marshal, I have considered the Blowers. But everyone I have talked to either loves soft skis and loves them or owns them and hates them because they are too soft. Too bad, cuz they are cheap and the dimensions arent too bad. Just need a bit more beef from what I understand. As for the 196 Commis, let me know when that happens and where to get in line

Oh and a bit of an edit here. I hope I didnt sound like the 193 EHP wasnt a fun ski. It was a riot in certain conditions, but just too much of a quiver ski for me. Despite owning a bunch of skis, Utah is usually the place where your "go to" ski is a powder ski. The EHP was just too much of a quiver ski for me. I honestly thought about keeping it just for deep days and places like Alta or Powder Mountain, but I couldnt afford keeping them and buying something that was more what I wanted. Hope that clarifies things.

**Phill** · 02-23-2007, 03:19 PM

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=77649

hey, I think im in pretty much the same boat as you now. I dont know if youve tried them, but the xxl's are really nice with a similar (but smaller) feel with a lot better float. They are just outside my price range though, maybe in yours....

edit: id go against the blowers if I were you. Not a charger, more of a cruiser, i reviewed them here

**shirk** · 02-23-2007, 03:48 PM

Legend Pro XXL

See powder11's comments on them. He skis them at Blackcomb in everything and charges on them.

**Professor** · 02-23-2007, 04:36 PM

Thanks for the XXL comments, but I already knew that they would be a good option. Problem was that my deal on them fell through AFTER I sold my EHPs

Anybody want to help a brother out?

Edit: Also looking for 190 Sumos if anybodys got them left. Or 198 AK XW would be good

**nest** · 02-23-2007, 06:48 PM

Hey. Kind of off topic but am considering buying some BDs with the mounting plate taken off and am wondering about the "turny" coments from prof (according to lemon boy). I would like something similar to a 189 squad or ANT (not having tried either one but having read reviews) and was expecting the older style BD to fall in this category, ie stiff but managable, ideal to use as an every day ski in LCC. If someone who has skied it without the plate could elaborate I would greatly appreciate it.

**upallnight** · 02-23-2007, 07:11 PM

Originally Posted by Professor

Oh and a bit of an edit here. I hope I didnt sound like the 193 EHP wasnt a fun ski. It was a riot in certain conditions, but just too much of a quiver ski for me. Despite owning a bunch of skis, Utah is usually the place where your "go to" ski is a powder ski. The EHP was just too much of a quiver ski for me. I honestly thought about keeping it just for deep days and places like Alta or Powder Mountain, but I couldnt afford keeping them and buying something that was more what I wanted. Hope that clarifies things.

So.... you're saying your go-to ski in UT is a powder ski, but the EHP (for you) needs too much pow before you bring it out? Did I get that right?

I skied mine today on alot of groomed stuff & they were a blast. I actually find them to be more an all-around ski than a quiver ski... particularly surprising given their width.