EHP vs Spats: A comparison from someone who has skied both

[upallnight]

meh. I have a very limited vinyl collection, and while I admit that it sounds the best of all my formats, mp3 is far more convenient. There is no way I could listen to music the way i do know via vinyl. Cost is the biggest factor. Storage size is a close second. And who wants to change sides every 25 minutes? Not me. I'd rather just sit on the couch and control my stereo wirelessly.

i'm not arguing convenience -- nothing's more convenient than small files on a portable player.

my point is that quality goes out the window in small increments, and what happens over time is people lose their frame of reference. people growing up on solely mp3s (and not even high quality ones at that -- high bitrates and a good converter) will begin to think of that as the norm or "reference".

it's just sad that people don't demand more -- not ONLY the portability, but also the sound quality. then again, the issue starts with the artists and producers/engineers during the mastering process. they're putting garbage into the chain at the source.

some of the lossless formats have promise and offer more convenience than vinyl. vinyl, though, is a connection to the music. i think the simple fact that it DOES require effort means you need to be in a state of mind to actively listen and participate in the experience.

music has become background noise more and more, and i think sound quality (lack of) is part of the problem. stuff sounds terrible...it's just "missing" something... so we gradually listen to less and less and we're not quite sure why. by "listening less" i mean both in terms of devoting attention to it/getting involved in it as well as listening less often.

anyway...it's a topic for another thread.

mp3s hvae their place for me, but not for really getting into music.

[upallnight]

UAN, does NMP3s mean something to you? If yeah, it's a small internet world. If no, there's someone with your same user name some place.

different person/persona.

type of mp3 encoder?

i'm more interested in FLAC these days.

[pechelman]

not to continue this hijack

but it just has to do with our current culture
everything nowadays is instantaneous
no one has time to sit down and appreciate things anymore

also a big part of the problem too, UAN, is that all these portable electronics sacrafice so much in terms of audio quality for things like longer battery life, fancy LCDs etc etc that even if they had a better source file, it would be garbled by the electronics...but I KNOW Im preaching to the choir here.

also, most of these headphones\earbuds whatever are complete garbage as well.

[upallnight]

^^^^ and few people demand better...and no one will care because there's no longer a basis for comparison.

Back on track: Day #2 on the EHPs was great through pow, cut-up pow, and some groomed (but not terribly firm) terrain. Solid ski.

[WWCD]

Back on track: Day #2 on the EHPs was great through pow, cut-up pow, and some groomed (but not terribly firm) terrain. Solid ski.

What happened? Day 1 review was money. Day 2 review was lacking and lazy. I think we all deman more out of you UAN. But that is why they offer the edit function. I'm going to go to bed and when I wake up, day 2 will be reviewed the way we all know you are capable of doing it.

[mountain_man]

motion seconded, i demand more, being one of the few.

[train07]

Can we PLEASE get back to the vinyl

[Greydon Clark]

this is true -- and what was visible in that shot wouldn't count as quantity, either.

If you didn't buy so many skis you could have bought that Velvet Underground LP on eBay for $150,000. That certainly counts for somthing.

[Dexter Rutecki]

Vinyl sucks. Why listen to record hiss?
Same goes for mp3 compression.
Staying true to vinyl for whatever mystical reason people do is like staying true to cassettes or eight-tracks. Sure, the music sounds different, but what it's offering isn't what you're supposed to be hearing.

[mntlion]

music goes in

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/f...aysprune=&f=11

talk about EHP vs Spats etc goes

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=70816

and thanks for the info. makes me want a pair more and more

[Dexter Rutecki]

Careful or someone might mention pizza, and this will go on for three more pages without a mention of Spats or EHP's.

[snowsprite]

Vinyl sucks. Why listen to record hiss?
Same goes for mp3 compression.
Staying true to vinyl for whatever mystical reason people do is like staying true to cassettes or eight-tracks. Sure, the music sounds different, but what it's offering isn't what you're supposed to be hearing.

Vinyl's got soul! "Landslide" by Fleetwood Mac is just NOT the same without the skip and three loud pops during the last chorus.

You young whipper-snappers just don't get it...

Sprite

[upallnight]

Vinyl sucks. Why listen to record hiss?
Same goes for mp3 compression.
Staying true to vinyl for whatever mystical reason people do is like staying true to cassettes or eight-tracks. Sure, the music sounds different, but what it's offering isn't what you're supposed to be hearing.

Hey Dexter... Bad vinyl sounds B-A-D. It does involve more care and feeding, but "record hiss" is not really inherent to records. I have plenty that play dead quiet. It's really a function of the shape of the stylus and the condition of the record.

On some recordings, I can actually hear TAPE HISS....which, of course, was from the master tape.

It's easy to confuse alot of these things, but I can assure you that vinyl can be well worth the effort when done right. If we're talking about a mediocre system, then CDs are just fine.

[upallnight]

What happened? Day 1 review was money. Day 2 review was lacking and lazy. I think we all deman more out of you UAN. But that is why they offer the edit function. I'm going to go to bed and when I wake up, day 2 will be reviewed the way we all know you are capable of doing it.

well, i had day #3 on 'em. my day 1 impressions are still pretty accurate; if anything, days 2 & 3 had less variability in the snow i skied. i'm not going to write alot more about them until i have more time. i wanted to get some initial impressions to the group right away to satisfy those who have their eyes on a pair, but until i have solid time on them i can't offer much more. 3 days is not THAT much different than 1 day on them.

a couple minor comments:
1) i've definitely hit some rocks; bases seem relatively sturdy, though not the burliest i've seen. the gouges were not quite as deep as i would have expected from what i hit.
2) the bases were totally true as shipped to me. they were relatively thirsty, but definitely nowhere near the driest i've seen from the factory.
3) edges seem OK, though they're not extra wide/thick.
4) lifties like the topsheet. snow hasn't been sticking to them too much (could be the texture). while the topsheets look very durable and inspire confidence, i was able to get a slight nick in one from tossing them with other skis in the back of my truck. i wasn't being careful at all, but it seems that they might look a little stronger than they are. time will tell.

peace.

[Z]

So went billygoating today. pillow drops and 20ish footers. $$$$. Landings were flat, but these things like to stomp. Perfect flex and the tail feels great. IMO this is the best part about this ski, stiff tail. Especially for a pow ski. If you are hucker and want a pow ski these are money.

I've never skied reverse camber anything so this is my main observation and it absolutely blowing me away....Skiing pow, especially pow with some "energy" (recycled around here lately), these skis give back. You can get the energy from turn to turn like you were on a racecourse/groomer. This feels un.fucking.real. So pick up some speed angulate/drop your hip all that BS and give the ski some push into the snow, then push off and unweight...you actually catch air on the way to next turn. Weightless type feeling. So this is hard for me to explain but this one things makes these skis head and shoulders in pow above anything I've ever tried. Turns deep spaced trees into a Fkn GS course. Im still getting used to this feeling and trying to "harness" it, but I can't say enough.

Also, skied bumps and steep chalky snow. Bumps are not a big deal (short running length on hardpack/my BDs sucked more in bumps). Kinda cool how well they skid, the tail loves to release, but will still hookup fine on groomers (with speed.)


So that's all I got. Feel I should contribute to anyone thinking about these seeing as I started the useless thread....

[upallnight]

Agree with Z's comments about being able to bounce from turn to turn at speed on hardpack or chalky snow. Pretty cool.

I might take exception with Z's earlier comment about EHPs vs Spats in trees given that he hasn't been on Spats, but otherwise my experience fully agrees with what he's feeling.

Haven't hucked anything worth mentioning in them and not seeing it in the near future given how the knee's feeling...but this *is* a fun ski.

Oh...did some hop turns on steep stuff and the ski did surprisingly well for it's width and weight. Once it's on-edge, it's bomber, but the transitions are obviously more dramatic simply due to the swing weight. Spats would not nearly be as secure in that terrain.

On a few fast, untracked lines (not light snow), these were $$$.

[Long duc dong]

Very thorough review. Thanks, and looking forward to more info.

[taynton]

You guys are certainly feeding the stoke about these skis, awesome review. The 190's look very tempting right now. I would go for the 193's but these would have to be the powder/ big mountain side of my soon-to-be two ski quiver, and the 40m radius is a bit big for what I want them for (also what is keeping me shy of the 188 Bros).

Would either of you be able to say how they compare to say a LP in sub-ideal conditions (ie crud, avi debris)? Where you you place them in terms of stiffness in the "Recommended Skis and Bindings" list?

[pechelman]

Whats keeping you away from the 188 bros?
Their radius is not 40m.
Closer to 34-35

[upallnight]

hey, taynton --
please keep in mind that the EHP 190 is quite different from the EHP 193; any comments here about the EHP 193 may not apply to the 190. The 190 is a rebadge version of a different 4frnt ski (the VCP 190, if I'm not mistaken).

it's a different ski from any traditional sidecut ski that i've personally been on. in a sense, it combines some of the best of traditionally-shaped skis with the best of "newer" shapes.

hard to estimate the stiffness as the camber is not quite the same as a traditional ski. i wouldn't describe it as "stiff", but the tail certainly is stiff enough to give you some pop when you load it in a turn. the tip's stiffness is stiff enough not to get too deflected in crud and debris (i skied cut-up, heavy pow and some debris from a small slide the other day), but you can't load it in a turn the way you can an LP or explosiv due to the lack of camber.

i'm a little hesitant to rate it on a normal scale (maybe someone else will take that stab), but so far it hasn't left me wanting for any additional stiffness.

if you're not going for the 193, then i think there's a world of possibility for you in addition to the 190s.

[Bullet]

You guys are certainly feeding the stoke about these skis, awesome review. The 190's look very tempting right now. I would go for the 193's but these would have to be the powder/ big mountain side of my soon-to-be two ski quiver, and the 40m radius is a bit big for what I want them for (also what is keeping me shy of the 188 Bros).

Would either of you be able to say how they compare to say a LP in sub-ideal conditions (ie crud, avi debris)? Where you you place them in terms of stiffness in the "Recommended Skis and Bindings" list?

As UAN stated the 190 is a different ski. I can't give you a comparrison to the LP but I can to the Big Daddy. They are just a bit stiffer than the Big Daddy.

The 190 is as stable as the Big Daddy in just about anything. It has good engergy and carves well. I skied it in chopped up Mammoth wind-blown crud and on the groomers. It is a very stable feeling ski. There's no tip flap and it engages the turn easily. Holds a good edge, and is nimble enough for negotiating tight chutes.

My only complaint with the pair I used was they were mounted for Big Mountain Freeride mode - meaning nearly centered mounted. There was about as much tip out in front of me as a pair of 179s - which for me isn't enough. If I were to buy a pair of the 190s, I'd mount them maybe 3cm back from the last line. If they came in a 193/4, I'd buy them as well as the EHP. The two pair make for a mighty fine quiver. The 190 for around the resort and the EHP for everything BC and powdery.