Mom pulled the box out of the trash. Daughter found it after mom killed her self. Daughter was planning to confront dad about what she saw on the data card. Dad killed her before she had the chance. Oops
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Mom pulled the box out of the trash. Daughter found it after mom killed her self. Daughter was planning to confront dad about what she saw on the data card. Dad killed her before she had the chance. Oops
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He seemed to have some God-like abilities over non-woke hosts when he was in The Cradle. Now he can (or could) only appear to or control Bernard. Even then, this episode showed that his control over Bernard is not absolute, or at least he wants Bernard to think that for now. His appearance to Maeve was a pre-recorded message of sorts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diamond Joe
With The Cradle and all the backups gone, if that bullet destroyed Teddy's control unit he should be dead-dead. He also seemed pretty dead when he was floating in the lake in Ep. 1. But, yeah, it's definitely not certain.
He was shot probably 5-6 times, though mostly to limbs and non-vital areas. The Ghost Nation tended to him a bit, and Emily had been working on him for an unknown period of time with a high-tech med kit similar to the one he used on himself after the Gala Massacre. So, it's not totally implausible that he's human, still alive, and in relatively decent shape despite the GSWs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elkhound Odin
The hosts seem to be programmed to "die" if they detect what should be a fatal wound, but it's just for show and they can be woken up or kept "alive." Hence why Maeve is still alive. For the hosts, anything short of destruction of the control unit appears to be "merely a flesh wound." Though, there is the cortical fluid issue Bernard struggled with and it's not clear exactly how that works.
Did they actually use the neck detector on Bernard? I recall the DNA scan thing in the lab with the drone hosts, but don't recall them using the neck scanner when he wakes up on the beach. Likewise, there was the scene at the Mesa where Charlotte gets neck-scanned, but shit happens before they get around to scanning Bernard.
The implication I got was that Mom had secretly rescued the music box from the garbage and kept it hidden for years, then Emily found it when going through her things after her death. That was pretty clearly how William interpreted it, though the door is still wide open for this to be Ford fucking with William and it really is all part of Ford's final game. Or, maybe Ford tipped off Emily to the existence of the card or gave her a copy at some point. Ford pretty clearly doesn't give a single fuck about human lives at this point, so his final game very well may have included William actually killing his daughter.Quote:
Originally Posted by PB
The book William hid the card in was Slaughterhouse Five, an anti-war scifi novel told in non-linear order through flashbacks and time travel. The main character is named Billy Pilgrim, who is held captive in a slaughterhouse during the fire-bombing of Dresden, and later has a son named Ford.
ETA: Based on the finale preview, my prediction about Logan's non-death appears to be the gift that keeps on giving.
ETA2: Shit, Odin beat me to the punch on the music box explanation.
What did mom and daugh see on the card? I didn’t really understand what was on the screen. Just that William is a bit delusional and crazy, going on host killing sprees?
I'm assuming the card profile exposes his darkness, but that seems too one dimensional - perhaps that the hosts are also starting to produce viable biological offspring (Bladerunner 2049 ripoff). Yep, ridiculous hypothesis cuz ........
imma geezer.
Remember, everything guests do in the park is recorded, everything. That card contained a complete record of every horrific, depraved thing he had ever done there. The scene in Season 1 where Logan wakes up to scores of murdered and disemboweled hosts? That was on there. Repeatedly raping and murdering Dolores, killing Maeve and her daughter, shooting Lawrence's wife in the head, all on there and more. Hence, Ford's comment to William that his exploits in the park didn't paint a very flattering self-portrait. Yeah, they were all robots, but that distinction didn't matter much to William's wife.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindahl
The new opening credits, with the baby in them, seem to indicate that this is correct. Charlotte might be Maive's daughter...Quote:
Originally Posted by PB
There is one big problem you are overlooking with the idea of hosts reproducing. HOSTS DON'T AGE!!!!! Duh. They don't grow. It's not clear if they even need food or oxygen to function. Exactly how would gestation and postnatal development work for a "species" that doesn't grow? I believe the child image references the "birth" of artificial intelligence.
Thanks guys I feel like this thread is a crucial part of my understanding/enjoyment of this show..
Oh, so now we have to be all sciencey ?? So let's just call it self-replication (Von Neumanny shit, no biology) and leave it at that.Quote:
Originally Posted by neckdeep
Was trying to catch up the other day, and it just went off on some half hour tangent with ANOTHER backstory to ANOTHER fucking robot. Don't care. bye bye.
^^ what, the indian? I kind of liked that episode..
Here we go, Season 2 finale!
After this, its the doldrums of summer television :frown: I usually cancel cable till football starts up again
Put me in the "hosts aren't having babies" camp.
tgr profile edit....
location: The Valley Beyond
may my wife never know the foul, depraved things I say to Siri.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantheman
I got so bored.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diamond Joe
Big reveal after the credits to confirm on thing I said earlier. The finale left me more confused about the multiple time lines in this wacky show. Which Delos security team at what time and which Bernard. I’m going to have to at least watch the first episode because I think there was a gaping disconnect with the end on the beach
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ThisQuote:
Originally Posted by Elkhound Odin
what the fuck. I can't tell if I like this show or I fucking hate it, I keep watching hoping it will become clear but I don't know. Hale is Dolores now?? I fucking HATE that character (Hale). Not psyched she's made the switch from the main antagonist to the main protagonist :cussing:
No boobies. Boooooo
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Let's not downplay Bernard's tits. We saw those.Quote:
Originally Posted by detrusor
Fairly certain that Dolores as Hale remade herself as Delores proper again. Since we know that there can be multiple copies of the hosts she now has a second copy of herself in Hale's body to give her any access she wants into Westworld Corp to help her in her plans to sabotage everything. The William thing at the end is probably in the future as he died from all of his wounds and they are doing the same tests they did to his father in law. I really liked the show and don't need total clarity. I really think a 3rd season would be jumping the shark. I was surprised that Maive could not offset the program that caused everyone to kill each other.
But why bring William back in that same bullet ridden, ragedy ass body???? and then, a billion other rage-inducing questions.
Lots of great dick though......Quote:
Originally Posted by detrusor
I give up on this show, have last 2 episodes on my DVR and keep putting them off for other shows.
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Yeah, I pondered that for a while as I drifted off to sleep and then I hit on this: the Forge is where William's fidelity test loop reaches its conclusion because that is when he died. He never got out of the Forge. That's the limit on his scanned behavior so that's where, in the future, his recreated consciousness gets evaluated for it's "fidelity."Quote:
Originally Posted by PB
Why this test? We see the ruined Forge that William enters looks abandoned so maybe it's long past when AI defeated humans. The Host version of his daughter tells him it has been a serious passage of time and many tests. Perhaps the post credits scene is a future AI trying to replicate humanity. Trying to regain something that was lost? Maybe humans went the way of the Neanderthal. In the future world of Hosts, the situation of the park would be reversed. A Westworld type of park for AI would be a place where AI could visit to experience a recreated humanity.
That's all I got. That episode is up there with the infamous finale of The Prisoner.
You are number 6Quote:
Originally Posted by neckdeep
The writers have figured something out with nonsequential plotlines as a remedy to the binge watching culture of today. Now you have to rewatch a season at a time to have any idea what's going on
Finally got to watch the finale. That was epic. Loved it. Too late now to expound on all this, though.
no its not. expound away!Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantheman
Sorry, I meant it was 11 pm and I was very tired. Sooo....Quote:
Originally Posted by Diamond Joe
Timeline/synopsis of events in chronological order, AFAICT:
Dolores/Bernard scene is well in the past, a flashback. Dolores tells Bernard that after 11,xxx tries (compared to the 149 with James Delos, holy shit!) they finally created a perfect copy of Arnold. Except, he was too perfect and always ended up killing himself just like the real Arnold did. So, they tweaked him a bit and named him Bernard, an original creation. This foreshadows Forge Logan's speech about humans being simple creatures bound by their code and destined to make the same choices over again.
Skip to pre-present, Dolores, Bernard and William meet at the Forge. William blows his hand off, Dolores and Bernard enter. They jack into the Forge, Forge Logan gives his story, Dolores reads the code of a bunch of humans, including Charlotte Hale and Karl Strand. They unjack and Dolores tries to destroy the whole thing. Bernard "kills" Dolores, successfully stops the data deletion but can't stop the flooding.
Outside, the door to the host paradise world has opened but most hosts are killed by Clementine's virus code before they can enter. Hosts that do make it through have their code completely transferred to the paradise world, hence the comment several episodes back where the Delos tech says that many of the recovered host control units are completely wiped. Bernard pulls the encryption key which closes The Door and he ascends to the surface as the Forge floods. It's revealed later that he put the key in Dolores' head and took her control unit with him. At the surface, Elsie grabs Bernard as they GTFO with water rapidly rising.
They return to the Mesa, Elsie sits Bernard down, then confronts Hale who kills her before Elsie can reveal that Bernard is a host. Bernard realizes that everything Ford said was correct and goes searching for Ford's code that he deleated. Ford appears to Bernard and, seemingly, instructs him to build a Halebot. It is strongly implied that some of this work had already been done at some time previously when Ford was controlling Bernard. Halebot is given Dolores' control unit, and since Dolores had read Hale's file in the Forge she could impersonate her perfectly. Halebot Dolores also now knows Karl Strand better than he knows himself. Halebot Dolores kills human Hale and leaves the park after making a plan with Bernard to infiltrate Delos and return.
Off camera and not well explained, Bernard sets it up so that when Delos returns and attempts to transfer the guest files out of the Forge, they will instead transfer the host files (it is strongly suggested later that this somehow includes the hosts who did not make it through the Door). Finished, Bernard heads to the beach where, like Dolores last season, he realizes that the Ford that has been talking to him since Elsie was killed is actually his own inner monologue. He is now fully conscious. He scrambles his memories so they won't betray the plan when Delos returns and lays down on the beach. This is where we find him at the start of Ep. 1.
Skip to present, Strand, Hale and the Delos tech take post-beach Bernard back down into the Forge. They find the key in Dolores' head, access the system and start the data transfer. Bernard's memories unscramble enough to recall what he did, and he apologizes as Halebot Dolores kills Strand and Delos guy and "kills" Bernard. Halebot Dolores redirects the data transfer to a new location, heads back up, sees William in a medic tent, has her talk with Stubbs where it is revealed with 99% certainty that he's a host, and she leaves the park with several control units in her handbag. One is presumably Bernard, the others are unknown. Maeve, Hector and Armistice are presumably ressurected by Felix and Sylvester.
*Sidebar--It looks like the neck scanner thing only checks for the explosive charge hidden in most host's cervical vertebrae. Halebot was constructed without one and thus passes the scan, and so would Maeve, Bernard and others.*
Skip to near future. Dolores has made her way to Arnold's former home, which was presumably kept by Ford. There, she has recreated her own body, Bernard and possibly bodies for all the control units she left with. Arnold's home may also be the location of the hosts' paradise world, but that is speculation. She leaves Bernard to his own choices, he knows her plan and is free to try to stop her or not.
Post-credits scene skips to far future. William never entered the Forge after blowing his hand off. He was likely picked up after the Clementine massacre when everyone was bugging out to escape the flood. Remember, they made a point of showing him at the medic tent on Halebot Dolores' way out, so he didn't die inside The Forge. Also, the entrance to the Forge was swarming with people shortly after Bernard and Dolores entered, yet William is shown entering all alone. His host copy is being tested for fidelity where his scanned behavior ended, except it is now decades or more into the future. Everything that happened to William this season happened to real William, but his host copy may have repeated it all countless times over. Why are they testing his host copy? An easy answer would be that he wanted to die completely, so the hosts who now control the world want to punish him by making him live with his terrible self forever. That's probably too easy, but what else it could be is pure speculation. I don't have a clue.
Overall I thought the finale wrapped up the multiple timelines we've had this season pretty well. A lot of questions were answered despite necessarily leaving quite a bit open for the next season. Like last season, I'll bet that a full rewatching of this season will reveal numerous clues that are obvious in hindsight. I thought Maeve's story got short-changed a bit, but she'll be back. I know I'm forgetting some stuff but it's getting late again. Over and out.
It turns out Lisa Joy has done several interviews since the finale where she is surprisingly forthcoming with answers. They're worth reading. Highlights include:
-The whole season has indeed been two timelines plus flashbacks.
-No multiple Bernards.
-Nothing about the scar on Bernard's head. I'm pretty sure this was just a continuity error.
-William survived but never entered The Forge. Everything that happened to him this season happened to his human self. Post-credits scene is his copy quite some time into the future.
-Maeve isn't going to stay dead.
-S3 will take place mostly in the real world, but Westworld will still feature prominently and the other parks will be revealed.
-Stubbs is a host, though he probably doesn't know it.
-People waaay overthink this show.
https://www.thewrap.com/westworld-se...hale-lisa-joy/
http://www.wired.co.uk/article/westw...-joy-interview
https://deadline.com/2018/06/westwor...ew-1202416356/
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/li...ason-3-1122744
Strange, because I thought it was horrible and it convinced me that even if there is a season 3, I'm sure as shit not watching it. I hate when writers and directors try to get too "creative" with multiple timelines and overlapping stories, to the point where it doesn't make any sense and it takes away from the overall show. Oh well, up until that it was a pretty great HBO series.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantheman
Yeah, I thought Season 1 of True Detective totally sucked, too.Quote:
Originally Posted by smmokan
So I finally finish season 2, wondering why I did all the way, and now I read all this stuff on the web that tries to explain this shit, and think, really? The worst response is, oh, this show requires a little thought, its not going to be easy. Fuck that. What a self indulgent mess that must have cost tens of millions. I blame video game culture for permeating Hollywood. Somebody must have thought this would make a great interactive game to capitalize on. Is there one yet? I don't give a fuck. Somebody go back to school and learn to tell a coherent story.
Really bad acting too. That's proven every time Hopkins or Harris appear on screen, and I think, oh, good acting all of a sudden. Those guys can look good spewing such sophomoric dribble. Most of the other dialogue is downright embarrassing at times. This show is proof that the new studio system in Hollywood of Netflix/HBO/Amazon/AMC and a few others has drained the talent pool dramatically, and we get incoherent, poorly acted and horribly written but incredibly well produced stuff like this. Too bad.
I agree with you that the story is lacking. I disagree on the acting though: I think the performances by the main characters are mostly good. Whether it's worth dealing with an incoherent story to enjoy some really beautifully shot stuff is kind of a matter of taste.Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny Profane
I also don't think it's any sort of new phenomenon or indictment of modern-day Hollywood. We've been getting high production value shows that try to be mysterious and thinky since at least The Prisoner. Some are more successful than others at pulling it off. It's hard writing this kind of story when you don't know how many seasons it will run when you start!
Here we go...
Are the rest of the mcpoyle’s gonna be there?
Attachment 316881
Ssssssooooo?????????
I'm confused by the lack of feed back on season 3, so I'll step into the breach: it be good. Dolores is da shit.
Man, Dolores kicking ass. Maive ‘ain’t far behind.
So far, season 3 is excellent. Much more fluid than the early episodes of season 2.
S3E5 was cheap and badly presented. Very disappointed. Beginning to question some of the casting choices, as well as the writing decisions.
Good show. Not the best. But good.
Worst
with or without driver
car
chase
ever
central theme=trippin??!?!?
V. Cassel, A. Paul not up to the task
M. Lynch just needs to disappear