Westworld

[Elkhound Odin]

Mom pulled the box out of the trash. Daughter found it after mom killed her self. Daughter was planning to confront dad about what she saw on the data card. Dad killed her before she had the chance. Oops


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[Dantheman]

So what, Ford is just, like, God now?? He can appear wherever and just like manifest himself into reality when its convenient??

Pretty heavy 2nd to last episode. Is Teddy really dead? One thing I love/hate about this show - death is never final.

He seemed to have some God-like abilities over non-woke hosts when he was in The Cradle. Now he can (or could) only appear to or control Bernard. Even then, this episode showed that his control over Bernard is not absolute, or at least he wants Bernard to think that for now. His appearance to Maeve was a pre-recorded message of sorts.

With The Cradle and all the backups gone, if that bullet destroyed Teddy's control unit he should be dead-dead. He also seemed pretty dead when he was floating in the lake in Ep. 1. But, yeah, it's definitely not certain.

Here is why I think William is a robot:
He should be dead. He was shot how many times? And now he's riding around like there is nothing wrong with him. Other hosts (Delores, Teddy, etc) have been shot and seems just fine. Only people really seem to die from gun shots. Maive should be dead as well. She is so wounded that she can't move, but she's still operating.
The human detector thing showed Bernard as human in episode one. So there is something about certain robots which get around that device.
When Ford told William the maze was not for him, it might have meant William was a robot that should not become self aware. (it might break him, like Delos)

He was shot probably 5-6 times, though mostly to limbs and non-vital areas. The Ghost Nation tended to him a bit, and Emily had been working on him for an unknown period of time with a high-tech med kit similar to the one he used on himself after the Gala Massacre. So, it's not totally implausible that he's human, still alive, and in relatively decent shape despite the GSWs.

The hosts seem to be programmed to "die" if they detect what should be a fatal wound, but it's just for show and they can be woken up or kept "alive." Hence why Maeve is still alive. For the hosts, anything short of destruction of the control unit appears to be "merely a flesh wound." Though, there is the cortical fluid issue Bernard struggled with and it's not clear exactly how that works.

Did they actually use the neck detector on Bernard? I recall the DNA scan thing in the lab with the drone hosts, but don't recall them using the neck scanner when he wakes up on the beach. Likewise, there was the scene at the Mesa where Charlotte gets neck-scanned, but shit happens before they get around to scanning Bernard.

Help a brother out: the Profile card that Ford gave William - are those made for the upper rite in preparation for the final upload?? William's wife hides the card in the music box, and the card then shows up in the daughter's bloody "dead" hand - so the daughter was BSing dear old Dad about tossing the box and then not being able to find it? Really not sure what it may mean but it sure doesn't add up.

The implication I got was that Mom had secretly rescued the music box from the garbage and kept it hidden for years, then Emily found it when going through her things after her death. That was pretty clearly how William interpreted it, though the door is still wide open for this to be Ford fucking with William and it really is all part of Ford's final game. Or, maybe Ford tipped off Emily to the existence of the card or gave her a copy at some point. Ford pretty clearly doesn't give a single fuck about human lives at this point, so his final game very well may have included William actually killing his daughter.

The book William hid the card in was Slaughterhouse Five, an anti-war scifi novel told in non-linear order through flashbacks and time travel. The main character is named Billy Pilgrim, who is held captive in a slaughterhouse during the fire-bombing of Dresden, and later has a son named Ford.


ETA: Based on the finale preview, my prediction about Logan's non-death appears to be the gift that keeps on giving.

ETA2: Shit, Odin beat me to the punch on the music box explanation.

[Lindahl]

What did mom and daugh see on the card? I didn’t really understand what was on the screen. Just that William is a bit delusional and crazy, going on host killing sprees?

[PB]

I'm assuming the card profile exposes his darkness, but that seems too one dimensional - perhaps that the hosts are also starting to produce viable biological offspring (Bladerunner 2049 ripoff). Yep, ridiculous hypothesis cuz ........
imma geezer.

[Dantheman]

What did mom and daugh see on the card? I didn’t really understand what was on the screen. Just that William is a bit delusional and crazy, going on host killing sprees?

Remember, everything guests do in the park is recorded, everything. That card contained a complete record of every horrific, depraved thing he had ever done there. The scene in Season 1 where Logan wakes up to scores of murdered and disemboweled hosts? That was on there. Repeatedly raping and murdering Dolores, killing Maeve and her daughter, shooting Lawrence's wife in the head, all on there and more. Hence, Ford's comment to William that his exploits in the park didn't paint a very flattering self-portrait. Yeah, they were all robots, but that distinction didn't matter much to William's wife.

[Flyoverland Captive]

...perhaps that the hosts are also starting to produce viable biological offspring (Bladerunner 2049 ripoff).

The new opening credits, with the baby in them, seem to indicate that this is correct. Charlotte might be Maive's daughter...

[neckdeep]

There is one big problem you are overlooking with the idea of hosts reproducing. HOSTS DON'T AGE!!!!! Duh. They don't grow. It's not clear if they even need food or oxygen to function. Exactly how would gestation and postnatal development work for a "species" that doesn't grow? I believe the child image references the "birth" of artificial intelligence.

[Diamond Joe]

Thanks guys I feel like this thread is a crucial part of my understanding/enjoyment of this show..

[PB]

There is one big problem you are overlooking with the idea of hosts reproducing. HOSTS DON'T AGE!!!!! Duh. They don't grow. It's not clear if they even need food or oxygen to function. Exactly how would gestation and postnatal development work for a "species" that doesn't grow? I believe the child image references the "birth" of artificial intelligence.

Oh, so now we have to be all sciencey ?? So let's just call it self-replication (Von Neumanny shit, no biology) and leave it at that.

[stuckathuntermtn]

Was trying to catch up the other day, and it just went off on some half hour tangent with ANOTHER backstory to ANOTHER fucking robot. Don't care. bye bye.

[Diamond Joe]

^^ what, the indian? I kind of liked that episode..

Here we go, Season 2 finale!

After this, its the doldrums of summer television I usually cancel cable till football starts up again

[Dantheman]

Put me in the "hosts aren't having babies" camp.

[ill-advised strategy]

tgr profile edit....

location: The Valley Beyond

[ill-advised strategy]

Yeah, they were all robots, but that distinction didn't matter much to William's wife.

may my wife never know the foul, depraved things I say to Siri.

[stuckathuntermtn]

^^ what, the indian? I kind of liked that episode..

Here we go, Season 2 finale!

After this, its the doldrums of summer television I usually cancel cable till football starts up again

I got so bored.

[Elkhound Odin]

Big reveal after the credits to confirm on thing I said earlier. The finale left me more confused about the multiple time lines in this wacky show. Which Delos security team at what time and which Bernard. I’m going to have to at least watch the first episode because I think there was a gaping disconnect with the end on the beach


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[Diamond Joe]

The finale left me more confused about the multiple time lines in this wacky show.

This

what the fuck. I can't tell if I like this show or I fucking hate it, I keep watching hoping it will become clear but I don't know. Hale is Dolores now?? I fucking HATE that character (Hale). Not psyched she's made the switch from the main antagonist to the main protagonist

[detrusor]

No boobies. Boooooo


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[Sirshredalot]

No boobies. Boooooo


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Let's not downplay Bernard's tits. We saw those.

[Ski to Be]

Fairly certain that Dolores as Hale remade herself as Delores proper again. Since we know that there can be multiple copies of the hosts she now has a second copy of herself in Hale's body to give her any access she wants into Westworld Corp to help her in her plans to sabotage everything. The William thing at the end is probably in the future as he died from all of his wounds and they are doing the same tests they did to his father in law. I really liked the show and don't need total clarity. I really think a 3rd season would be jumping the shark. I was surprised that Maive could not offset the program that caused everyone to kill each other.

[PB]

But why bring William back in that same bullet ridden, ragedy ass body???? and then, a billion other rage-inducing questions.

[AK47bp]

No boobies. Boooooo


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Lots of great dick though......

I give up on this show, have last 2 episodes on my DVR and keep putting them off for other shows.




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[neckdeep]

But why bring William back in that same bullet ridden, ragedy ass body???? and then, a billion other rage-inducing questions.

Yeah, I pondered that for a while as I drifted off to sleep and then I hit on this: the Forge is where William's fidelity test loop reaches its conclusion because that is when he died. He never got out of the Forge. That's the limit on his scanned behavior so that's where, in the future, his recreated consciousness gets evaluated for it's "fidelity."

Why this test? We see the ruined Forge that William enters looks abandoned so maybe it's long past when AI defeated humans. The Host version of his daughter tells him it has been a serious passage of time and many tests. Perhaps the post credits scene is a future AI trying to replicate humanity. Trying to regain something that was lost? Maybe humans went the way of the Neanderthal. In the future world of Hosts, the situation of the park would be reversed. A Westworld type of park for AI would be a place where AI could visit to experience a recreated humanity.

That's all I got. That episode is up there with the infamous finale of The Prisoner.

[BeardedClam]

Yeah, I pondered that for a while as I drifted off to sleep and then I hit on this: the Forge is where William's fidelity test loop reaches its conclusion because that is when he died. He never got out of the Forge. That's the limit on his scanned behavior so that's where, in the future, his recreated consciousness gets evaluated for it's "fidelity."

Why this test? We see the ruined Forge that William enters looks abandoned so maybe it's long past when AI defeated humans. The Host version of his daughter tells him it has been a serious passage of time and many tests. Perhaps the post credits scene is a future AI trying to replicate humanity. Trying to regain something that was lost? Maybe humans went the way of the Neanderthal. In the future world of Hosts, the situation of the park would be reversed. A Westworld type of park for AI would be a place where AI could visit to experience a recreated humanity.

That's all I got. That episode is up there with the infamous finale of The Prisoner.

You are number 6


The writers have figured something out with nonsequential plotlines as a remedy to the binge watching culture of today. Now you have to rewatch a season at a time to have any idea what's going on

[Dantheman]

Finally got to watch the finale. That was epic. Loved it. Too late now to expound on all this, though.