The 300g Touring Binding Thread

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Originally Posted by PeachesNCream

Thanks. I'm leaning alpinist at this point maybe MTN, seem to hit all the boxes

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If you're trying to decide between those two then riser height might make the difference, I know a lot of people don't like that the alpinist doesn't have a very high riser (and if you are skiing boots with meh ROM this will be more of an issue).

FWIW I have some Alpinists on 2000 g skis (HL C132) and they ski very well.


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Originally Posted by PeachesNCream

Thanks. I'm leaning alpinist at this point maybe MTN, seem to hit all the boxes



Do you add a freeride spacer with brakes or do the brakes function as a freeride spacer?

Thanks for the info on din. That seems reasonable. I was thinking of going to a 10 but then was wondering if the lack of elasticity would make it function less than that which had me thinking of going with the 12.

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Brakes would function as a freeride spacer, i think i read a review a while ago that said brakes improve the skiing feel of the alpinist. I just don’t like brakes on my tech bindings or i’d just go with them. L



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Originally Posted by enginerd

I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately too. Three other travel options I’ve been rolling around with less fiddle factor:

1) CAST system - could also modify your resort boots with tech toe fittings. Particularly attractive if you’re married to pivots. Can use any boot if not touring.

2) Duke PT - gives you “real” downhill binding with a pin touring option. Can use any boot if not touring.

3) Vipec or Tecton. Gives you comparatively really good elasticity and lateral release but mandates a touring compatible boot for any trip.

Have you ruled these out for any reason? Just curious for my own thinking as well.


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Of these three, I have tried them all, and I’m convinced that the tecton wins. Easily.

The cast plates can get a micrometer of ice on them and not click into place.

The dukes need a toe shim. Stack height is enormous.

The tectons also need a toe shim, but B and D has some that work great and bring the ramp down to 3 or 4mm.

I’m 165 and I dial it back in the bc, so grain of salt and all.

But they really do ski wonderfully. Easy to use.

Shift would be above the others for me unless every day of the trip had skinning.

The mtn is

Bomber
Resistant to pre releases, because it has very strong toe springs

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Originally Posted by LeeLau

Alpinist brakes are actually fine. They deploy and stow away.

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They deploy but they're so weak they might as well not be there.

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Originally Posted by bean

They deploy but they're so weak they might as well not be there.

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I miss brakes when carrying skis and I know one day I will regret not having brakes when transitioning on a wind hammer ridge top.

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Originally Posted by Cocximus

I miss brakes when carrying skis and I know one day I will regret not having brakes when transitioning on a wind hammer ridge top.

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I know i did regret it.

And I'm embarrassed to say that i even lost a ski when putting it on in a steep couloir when i couldn't top out. And i had to downclimb the entire couloir, in perfect powder conditions!
Since then i have a short cord in my pocket to secure the ski to my belt so i don't lose it when putting it on. Don't use it often, but a few times i was glad i have it. Especially since most of my bc skiing is in couloirs, and often there's a cornice on top, so i end up digging a platform to get ready.

And no, the brake did not stop the ski.

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Originally Posted by frorider

Alpinists are like the Tacoma of bindings, except they sell a billion of ‘em in Europe but not quite as many in the US. The design hasn’t changed other than a larger flange over the toe springs. Despite the huge numbers out there the failure reports are very rare. Both Blister and Outdoor Gear Lab concluded after testing on refrozen or chunky crap that they ski better and with a more damp, elastic feeling than all the others in this general weight category.

But the Tacoma’s seating position sucks for tall guys, and the Alpinist has a heel riser that reflects a Euro / skimo mentality. Our redesigned heel lever will provide two useful positions—a moderately tall position when pins are fwd, and a tall position when rotated. The actual mm heights are being fine tuned with our prototypes. And we are positioning the hole in the lever to enable easier insertion and rotation with any pole, particularly poles with a wide tip.

I’ll list the reasons I’ve concluded this is the best binding in this category in another thread w/ details on our proto results, but let’s not overlook the fact that they cost $200-$250 per pair depending on where you order them from in Europe. Sort of the cherry on top. If you and your SO are into bc skiing, and you have the minimum quiver (3 pairs each), that saves you $1500 vs the other good options.

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Any update on this mod Fro? Seems perfect for what I'd want.

I'd also go for an aftermarket high riser option on my multiple pairs of Alpinists if it because available. I think they ski great (without brakes or freeride spacer) and have had no usability or durability issues, but when combined with boots without great ROM and a steep skin track, I could use a higher riser.

For folks concerned about losing a ski during transitions, I like the B&D leashes. They're long enough that you never need to remove them unless you're booting, and if booting, just remember to attach the leashes to your boot before doing anything else. The one downside to the long leash is that the coils get a bit stretched out on cold days, but it's never caused an issue for me.

Fitting leashes on Alpinist is a little tricky, but I use zip ties that function as a breakable link + locking, flexible key rings and that works great to be able to swap the leashes across multiple pairs of bindings.

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Originally Posted by Skeeze

(...)

Fitting leashes on Alpinist is a little tricky, but I use zip ties that function as a breakable link + locking, flexible key rings and that works great to be able to swap the leashes across multiple pairs of bindings.

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I think I have an idea of what you're saying but by any chance do you have a picture of the assembly? I've been trying to figure out a way to make it easier to swap my B&Ds

For BND leashes on Alpinists, I used some ~2mm cordelette I had laying around. Easy peasy


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Posted in gear swap as well, but the new mtn summit is available from alpine options now https://alpineoptions.com/sa2435100/...RoC5DMQAvD_BwE

I’m currently running a Ski Trab vario.2 toe(for the riser) and a Kreuzspitze sctt heel on the 14mm adjustment track. It fits in a dynafit mount pattern, has some adjustment, has huge climbing riser option for the heel, and I added a universal free ride spacer on my wide skis even though I probably would have been fine without it.

Weighs less than 200 grams with leash attachment, screws, and heel riser IIRC, and I could trim even more weight with a titanium U spring. But more importantly it’s a zero ramp angle binding so my touring and alpine skiing feels as close as possible.

The only problem is having to piece it together instead of buying a complete binding.

Saw a deal and went Alpinist instead of MTN. Here is the link ($299.99 CAD) https://www.sapvelogare.com/fr/marker-alpinist-12.html

Worth it over MTN's metal/higher risers? I'd love to go Trab or ATK but those are both $100+ more at least. Going on QST Echos for low tide touring and long days.

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Originally Posted by tupp_

Saw a deal and went Alpinist instead of MTN. Here is the link ($299.99 CAD) https://www.sapvelogare.com/fr/marker-alpinist-12.html

Worth it over MTN's metal/higher risers? I'd love to go Trab or ATK but those are both $100+ more at least. Going on QST Echos for low tide touring and long days.

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I prefer the alpinist over the mtn for sure. Skis noticeably better, basically the same weight. The single riser can be annoying sometimes vs having two, but with the right boots it doesn’t make that much of a difference to me


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Do you have the height of the boot sole at the heel when clicked in?

Looking to add some freeride spacers and want to make sure I can get the right height.

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Originally Posted by tupp_

Do you have the height of the boot sole at the heel when clicked in?

Looking to add some freeride spacers and want to make sure I can get the right height.

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I don’t but an al05 fits under my heel with ~2mm of room from the lowest setting. Al07 did not fit


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Originally Posted by tupp_

Saw a deal and went Alpinist instead of MTN. Here is the link ($299.99 CAD) https://www.sapvelogare.com/fr/marker-alpinist-12.html

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Any way to get these shipped to US? I can only select Canada for country at checkout.

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Originally Posted by Cocximus

I miss brakes when carrying skis and I know one day I will regret not having brakes when transitioning on a wind hammer ridge top.

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The brakes literally pass through each other without resistance. Not helpful for shouldering, plan on needing a ski strap to keep them together. Which you should have several of.

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Originally Posted by bean

Any way to get these shipped to US? I can only select Canada for country at checkout.

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I’m messaging them on FB right now to see if I can talk them into this.

If a Canadian mag could broker a deal, I’d spring for that too

https://www.oliunid.com/marker-alpin...alpinismo.html

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Originally Posted by bean

Any way to get these shipped to US? I can only select Canada for country at checkout.

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Originally Posted by Blaster

https://www.oliunid.com/marker-alpin...alpinismo.html

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I actually want the 8, which is over $250 shipped from there but would be $200 from the previously-linked site. I don't really even need them at the moment but for $200 it's a no-brainer to put on the shelf for the future.

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Originally Posted by SupreChicken

I’m messaging them on FB right now to see if I can talk them into this.

If a Canadian mag could broker a deal, I’d spring for that too

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I’d get in on this too.


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They are willing. 380 cad shipped ($281 US). It’s…an ok deal. @peachesncream - where are you located? I could order 2 and priority mail a pair your way

Ok, finally did some legit touring on my Moment Voyager XIIs. Paired with WNDR Vital 100s and Fischer TransAlps.

I don’t have a ton of experience in this binding category. But so far, the Voyagers are my favorite all around touring binding to date.

Super easy to step into the toes. Binding delta feels right without shims for me (unlike the Xenic). One clean release when I was fucking around skiing switch at the resort for a fitness lap, appropriately so. Otherwise retention was perfect and power transfer felt good on three days of touring in the San Juans last week. Brake retention/release button also performed perfectly, as did the risers.

I guess the downside is the price. But very happy with them otherwise thus far.

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Yep I’m with you. FYI the Voyager lineup has the toe shim built in. It’s a 6.5 or 7 mm heel/toe drop.

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Originally Posted by SupreChicken

They are willing. 380 cad shipped ($281 US). It’s…an ok deal. @peachesncream - where are you located? I could order 2 and priority mail a pair your way

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Not sure what happened with this but Im in Vancouver and can help out if needed. Happy to forwardthem wherever. Ill also be travelling to Oregon and Kansas over the next month which may be cheaper to ship from.


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its not 300 grams, but the marker cruise is starting to land now. Stated weight 475, looks like no brakeless version is avialable and it's hard to tell if they're easily removable. 25mm of adjustment, 2 risers, independent lateral and vertical release adjustment. Fills a weird niche in the market but it makes sense for marker's lineup i guess

https://markerbindings.com/en-us/p/c...-bindings-2024

Marker Alpinist leash from fleebay for $17 shipped plus whatever tax your state collects.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/28536612754...sAAOSwf9lkpYWj

Any issues or concerns with using a Kreuzspitze RS-A as a do everything touring binding? I've been on MTNs for years with no issues but I am curious about dropping 150+ grams per foot. Not intending to use this setup inbounds except when exiting the ski area, but I do tend to ski aggressively with beefier touring boots (hawx/maestrale) and am not gentle on my gear.

Am I courting disaster by considering a race(ish) binding to save weight, or is the consensus that I should just get a MTN/Alpinist and get in better shape to offset the heavier binding? If its relevant, it'll be going on a 103 underfoot carbon touring ski.

I’ve settled somewhere in the middle of those two concepts. I like having an adjustment plate to loan skis or use different boots, and the tall riser is nice more often than I’d like to admit, despite preferring low angle skinners. I do have back and hip problems though, high riser may not be a necessity for you.
I don’t think there’s a tremendous safety difference, as long as the toes are strong enough. I’m currently a big fan of Plum Oazo’s. Two risers, adjustable BSL, great toepieces. Also, the heel is big enough to twist easily for flat mode. I have ATK race heels and they are a bitch to turn sometimes.


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Originally Posted by riff

I’ve settled somewhere in the middle of those two concepts. I like having an adjustment plate to loan skis or use different boots, and the tall riser is nice more often than I’d like to admit, despite preferring low angle skinners. I do have back and hip problems though, high riser may not be a necessity for you.
I don’t think there’s a tremendous safety difference, as long as the toes are strong enough. I’m currently a big fan of Plum Oazo’s. Two risers, adjustable BSL, great toepieces. Also, the heel is big enough to twist easily for flat mode. I have ATK race heels and they are a bitch to turn sometimes.


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I second this sentiment. I also have the Plum R170s and its worth the extra grams for the Oazos to have a bigger heel piece to turn with your hand with ease. The R170 can be tough to turn in the field.

Ok sorry everyone but finally providing an update on my side project of a killer heel elevator that IME turns the Marker Alpinist into arguably one of the two or three best in this category…and at $270 when ordered from Yurp, the best value.

Pic 1: Our CNC’d final prototype on the left vs the stock riser on the right:
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Pic 2: tallest position (28.5 boot)
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Pic 3: medium position
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We’ll provide more information (e.g. dimensions and preorder details) in a separate new thread. As with my World Famous Strap Off product ;) this is a labor of love for me that I don’t make money from…but Collin, my friend & Director of Manufacturing, certainly deserves to make a small profit :cool:

So for now I just wanted to announce after much testing and refinement we arrived at a final prototype (thx everyone for the DM’s and patience). For an extra 9 grams or so, you get an actually useful Medium heel riser height (equal to the ‘Tall’ stock riser position!) for moderate to somewhat steep skin tracks, and you get an awesome Tall position for steep skin tracks that feels incredibly stable thanks to the flat shelf design and product stiffness. Rotating the binding via pole tip or by hand is greatly improved too.

Collin will help fill in the details but he thinks $49.95 plus shipping is doable.

So keep an eye out for that Preorder thread. Pls don’t clutter up THIS ‘300 g’ thread or my PMs with preorder requests. But as the main designer and tester I’m happy to answer your other questions here.

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^^^that is fucking awesome!! Loved the way the Alpinist skied, but hated the finicky low floppy risers.


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Originally Posted by hick

^^^that is fucking awesome!! Loved the way the Alpinist skied, but hated the finicky low floppy risers.


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A million users and Blister and Outdoor Gear Lab agree with you. Having a zero gap heel piece and a reasonably elastic (and reliable) toepiece is the key. I’m stoked this heel riser project worked out.

Reminds me—Yes we designed it to create a more positive positioning. Of course even the stock Alpinist riser is less floppy than the Salomon Mtn, but we tried to improve it further.

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Originally Posted by frorider

So keep an eye out for that Preorder thread. Pls don’t clutter up THIS ‘300 g’ thread or my PMs with preorder requests. But as the main designer and tester I’m happy to answer your other questions here.

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Hell ya,

One question is what metal did you use? And is it any harder or softer than the stock riser? One of the issues with the first gen alpinists was that they used a straight steel bar for the spring to hold the heel riser in position. That bar was a good bit harder than the stock aluminum heel riser so after a medium amount of use would wear a grove into the heel riser, lose the spring pressure, and go all flaccid. The 2nd gen of the alpinist have an s shaped bar that you can see in your last photo to avoid this.

6061-T6 aluminum for the protos; production will be an anodized version for addl hardness. I and my test crew tour a lot, so I feel pretty good about the net improvement in ‘positive engagement’, but IME it helps to smear a dab of grease in there occasionally to reduce wear.

In the preorder thread we will discuss the DIY home installation process. It’s not difficult but we’d like to see shops stock the product to provide another installation option.

That is nice! I do not plan to run Alpinists any time soon, but still appreciate the effort. Ideally a solution involving not having to svivel the heel to unlock two modes would have been ideal, but it probably adds a lot of complexity to make it work.

I know I am hardly the first one to run this setup, but this is what I have planned for my two main pairs of touring skis this coming winter: Vario.2 toes and ATK R/FR w/Freeride spacer heels. I am admittedly pretty excited to try the combo. The stock vario.2 heels skied fine and the lack of risers weren't much of an issue, but more is better, as are brakes :)
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Hell yeah frorider - please cross-post the thread link here whenever it goes live!

A tricky binding question:

My beloved, and ancient, Protests have Sollyfit plates, and I've been skiing them with Solly Drivers and Dynafit Radicals. And yes, one of the heels broke (roof came off), but luckily on the last climb of a Japan holiday, and a Voile strap saved the day.

I'm now unsurprisingly wary of going anywhere with those bindings, but my options seem limited. Skis are already drilled for the Drivers, so can't really do inserts for those and new touring bindings.

Would the best way be to buy some Kreutzspitze heels and plates, and keep the Radical toes?

Plates:
https://skimo.co/kreuzspitze-adjustment-plates