The 300g Touring Binding Thread

[LeeLau]

Edit. No they didn’t.

Yup. Still 8mm delta

[PeachesNCream]

Need some input on finding a 300 gram-ish touring binding. I've been touring for a few years but have been using hybrid bindings as I venture into the resort a decent amount. Looking to pair this binding with an alpine binding (probably pivot) and a 2000g ski for a travel ski. I'm not super sensitive to ramp angle but I'd prefer something relatively flat and I'd prefer not to deal with spacers esp while traveling. I don't think these will get a ton of use, maybe 3-5 days a year, but I am larger at 6'3 200lbs. And I'd prefer not buy the most expensive binding.

Alpinist, MTN, and Raider seem to fit this criteria, maybe Trab has something in there. I'm new to this world so correct me if I'm wrong. Alpinist brakes are finicky? MTN has kind of a high ramp. And Raider is kind of expensive. Thoughts?

Also I usually ride ~11 din on my alpine clamps. Most pin clamps have a 10 or 12 offering, do you generally run higher or lower on pins?

[enginerd]

I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately too. Three other travel options I’ve been rolling around with less fiddle factor:

1) CAST system - could also modify your resort boots with tech toe fittings. Particularly attractive if you’re married to pivots. Can use any boot if not touring.

2) Duke PT/Shift - gives you “real” downhill binding with a pin touring option. Can use any boot if not touring.

3) Vipec or Tecton. Gives you comparatively really good elasticity and lateral release but mandates a touring compatible boot for any trip.

Have you ruled these out for any reason? Just curious for my own thinking as well.


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[PeachesNCream]

I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately too. Three other travel options I’ve been rolling around with less fiddle factor:

1) CAST system - could also modify your resort boots with tech toe fittings. Particularly attractive if you’re married to pivots. Can use any boot if not touring.

2) Duke PT - gives you “real” downhill binding with a pin touring option. Can use any boot if not touring.

3) Vipec or Tecton. Gives you comparatively really good elasticity and lateral release but mandates a touring compatible boot for any trip.

Have you ruled these out for any reason? Just curious for my own thinking as well.


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Yep, muddled over these quite a bit. I think these would be great setups if you were thinking of doing sidecountry or the tours were going to be small when traveling. I rarely do sidecountry and my tours are usually lots of elevation with people that are slightly fitter than me so the substantial weight savings is worth it for me.

Also these hybrid binding setups are spendy. Almost the same price to buy a simple 300g binding and alpine binding

[tupp_]

FWIW I have given up on hybrid setups. They don't do anything well and are expensive.

After skiing Kingpins (>100 days), Shifts (5 days) and Tectons (~20 days) I just can't get over the fiddle factor for resort. I think its important to think critically about what kind of travel you are doing and either run binding inserts or bring dedicated setups.

For travel, I would consider only CAST/Duke PT on a pow ski. Then have a dedicated <300gm binding on a touring rig for huts/high alpine/etc. Hence why I'm looking at MTNs.

For MTN Summit - does anyone know if there is heel "forward pressure"?

[MagnificentUnicorn]

^^What is the fiddle factor with Tectons? Curious, I’ve probably got over a hundred days on my pair with a combination of straight touring, sidecountry laps and just lift served. I don’t see what would be the fiddle factor.


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[sweatypowderpig]

i'm struggling to identify the benefits of this new Summit 12 binding over the MTN.
Seems it's just a couple of mm higher overall (no delta change) and has subbed in plastic for some of the aluminum?

[enginerd]

if you were thinking of doing sidecountry or the tours were going to be small when traveling.

Yeah, exactly what I was thinking. Definitely a quiver setup.

lots of elevation with people that are slightly fitter than me

Totally agree. This is definitely the realm of dedicated lightweight setup.





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[enginerd]

Dupe

[EricB]

i'm struggling to identify the benefits of this new Summit 12 binding over the MTN.
Seems it's just a couple of mm higher overall (no delta change) and has subbed in plastic for some of the aluminum?

https://wildsnow.com/33691/salomons-...-a-first-look/

The chart shows the addition of "autoflex" aka elastic travel.

[tupp_]

^^What is the fiddle factor with Tectons? Curious, I’ve probably got over a hundred days on my pair with a combination of straight touring, sidecountry laps and just lift served. I don’t see what would be the fiddle factor.


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I find they make a lot of noise (perhaps just my specific boot) while skiing, and are very sensitive to snow in the heel piece.

Out of the 3 bindings I mentioned they are the best of the bunch.

[tupp_]

https://wildsnow.com/33691/salomons-...-a-first-look/

The chart shows the addition of "autoflex" aka elastic travel.

Yes, this is the feature I am wondering about.

[LeeLau]

Need some input on finding a 300 gram-ish touring binding. I've been touring for a few years but have been using hybrid bindings as I venture into the resort a decent amount. Looking to pair this binding with an alpine binding (probably pivot) and a 2000g ski for a travel ski. I'm not super sensitive to ramp angle but I'd prefer something relatively flat and I'd prefer not to deal with spacers esp while traveling. I don't think these will get a ton of use, maybe 3-5 days a year, but I am larger at 6'3 200lbs. And I'd prefer not buy the most expensive binding.

Alpinist, MTN, and Raider seem to fit this criteria, maybe Trab has something in there. I'm new to this world so correct me if I'm wrong. Alpinist brakes are finicky? MTN has kind of a high ramp. And Raider is kind of expensive. Thoughts?

Also I usually ride ~11 din on my alpine clamps. Most pin clamps have a 10 or 12 offering, do you generally run higher or lower on pins?

Alpinist brakes are actually fine. They deploy and stow away. They're quite flat when mounted brakeless and even with a brake they don't have much ramp. Can't recall ramp off top of head but believe it's 2mm delta. MTN has 8mm ramp which is in the middle. Don't know anything about ATK

At 200lbs and touring 3 -5 days a year (and no offence but I bet these are short tours) just get CAST.

FWIW I have given up on hybrid setups. They don't do anything well and are expensive.

After skiing Kingpins (>100 days), Shifts (5 days) and Tectons (~20 days) I just can't get over the fiddle factor for resort. I think its important to think critically about what kind of travel you are doing and either run binding inserts or bring dedicated setups.

For travel, I would consider only CAST/Duke PT on a pow ski. Then have a dedicated <300gm binding on a touring rig for huts/high alpine/etc. Hence why I'm looking at MTNs.

For MTN Summit - does anyone know if there is heel "forward pressure"?

There isn't. It's set up as a 4mm heel gap.

^^What is the fiddle factor with Tectons? Curious, I’ve probably got over a hundred days on my pair with a combination of straight touring, sidecountry laps and just lift served. I don’t see what would be the fiddle factor.

It's the same as with any tech setup. Getting into the pins is the fiddle factor. I agree with you but that;s what people struggle with

i'm struggling to identify the benefits of this new Summit 12 binding over the MTN.
Seems it's just a couple of mm higher overall (no delta change) and has subbed in plastic for some of the aluminum?

6 mm higher front and rear on top of ski. Some plastic at toe mount vs alu to save weight. 50mm bsl adjustment over 30mm adjustment. No replaceable heel prongs for RV setup. Not really much material substantive change

[LeeLau]

Yes, this is the feature I am wondering about.

Can't figure that out. From Evo (https://www.evo.com/en-ca/discover/ski/gear-preview) :while Salomon’s Autoflex system moves the binding with your ski, creating dynamic response on the snow suited to freeriding pursuits.:. I'm guessing it's the way the brake is mounted perhaps to allow the ski to flex more naturally?

Using the Summit vs the Pure I can't tell the difference whether on hardpack or pow

[MagnificentUnicorn]

^^The Tecton and Vipec are the easiest tech bindings to step into but I can see why some might struggle [emoji849]


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[galibier_numero_un]

^^The Tecton and Vipec are the easiest tech bindings to step into but I can see why some might struggle [emoji849]


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Day-um ... my Vipecs are the Blacks, from several years ago. They're so difficult to get into that I even have problems engaging a boot when the skis are on the bench. I remember everyone saying that the Blacks had a much improved entry.

Plums & ATKs I can get into blindfolded ;-)

... Thom

[MagnificentUnicorn]

No difference getting into Tectons and Vipec Evo. Touch the stopper and step on the pedal. I don’t even look sometimes


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[ezgzy]

Atk standard delta is something like 11 if i remember right. Personally i like the alpinist a lot, they ski great, reasonably light, and consistently very cheap from europe. I’m planning on adding a freeride spacer to mine soon and imagine they’ll be even better for it.

I run 11 in an alpine binding and the same for my heavier at setups: with the alpinist 12 that means i have 11 lateral and 12 vertical, had an over the handlebars fall and still released fine earlier this year fwiw.


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[tupp_]

Can't figure that out. From Evo (https://www.evo.com/en-ca/discover/ski/gear-preview) :while Salomon’s Autoflex system moves the binding with your ski, creating dynamic response on the snow suited to freeriding pursuits.:. I'm guessing it's the way the brake is mounted perhaps to allow the ski to flex more naturally?

Using the Summit vs the Pure I can't tell the difference whether on hardpack or pow

Thanks LeeLau. So confusing.. I was certain there was elasticity in the heel to compensate for ski flex given the size of the tower. I'm going to try to order some but will likely end up with MTNs.

[PeachesNCream]

Alpinist brakes are actually fine. They deploy and stow away. They're quite flat when mounted brakeless and even with a brake they don't have much ramp. Can't recall ramp off top of head but believe it's 2mm delta. MTN has 8mm ramp which is in the middle. Don't know anything about ATK

Thanks. I'm leaning alpinist at this point maybe MTN, seem to hit all the boxes

At 200lbs and touring 3 -5 days a year (and no offence but I bet these are short tours) just get CAST.

No offense taken. Most of the tours will be in the Cascades, tours are in the 3-8k vertical range. So not the big volcano attempts but not small in my book. Keep in mind I'm pairing this with a 2000 gram ski. 2000 gram ski + CAST = pretty heavy. 2000g gram ski + 300g binding = reasonable weight. At least that was my thought when someone suggested it

Atk standard delta is something like 11 if i remember right. Personally i like the alpinist a lot, they ski great, reasonably light, and consistently very cheap from europe. I’m planning on adding a freeride spacer to mine soon and imagine they’ll be even better for it.

I run 11 in an alpine binding and the same for my heavier at setups: with the alpinist 12 that means i have 11 lateral and 12 vertical, had an over the handlebars fall and still released fine earlier this year fwiw.

Do you add a freeride spacer with brakes or do the brakes function as a freeride spacer?

Thanks for the info on din. That seems reasonable. I was thinking of going to a 10 but then was wondering if the lack of elasticity would make it function less than that which had me thinking of going with the 12.

[fleaches]

Thanks. I'm leaning alpinist at this point maybe MTN, seem to hit all the boxes

If you're trying to decide between those two then riser height might make the difference, I know a lot of people don't like that the alpinist doesn't have a very high riser (and if you are skiing boots with meh ROM this will be more of an issue).

FWIW I have some Alpinists on 2000 g skis (HL C132) and they ski very well.


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[ezgzy]

Thanks. I'm leaning alpinist at this point maybe MTN, seem to hit all the boxes



Do you add a freeride spacer with brakes or do the brakes function as a freeride spacer?

Thanks for the info on din. That seems reasonable. I was thinking of going to a 10 but then was wondering if the lack of elasticity would make it function less than that which had me thinking of going with the 12.

Brakes would function as a freeride spacer, i think i read a review a while ago that said brakes improve the skiing feel of the alpinist. I just don’t like brakes on my tech bindings or i’d just go with them. L



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[SupreChicken]

I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately too. Three other travel options I’ve been rolling around with less fiddle factor:

1) CAST system - could also modify your resort boots with tech toe fittings. Particularly attractive if you’re married to pivots. Can use any boot if not touring.

2) Duke PT - gives you “real” downhill binding with a pin touring option. Can use any boot if not touring.

3) Vipec or Tecton. Gives you comparatively really good elasticity and lateral release but mandates a touring compatible boot for any trip.

Have you ruled these out for any reason? Just curious for my own thinking as well.


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Of these three, I have tried them all, and I’m convinced that the tecton wins. Easily.

The cast plates can get a micrometer of ice on them and not click into place.

The dukes need a toe shim. Stack height is enormous.

The tectons also need a toe shim, but B and D has some that work great and bring the ramp down to 3 or 4mm.

I’m 165 and I dial it back in the bc, so grain of salt and all.

But they really do ski wonderfully. Easy to use.

Shift would be above the others for me unless every day of the trip had skinning.

[rod9301]

The mtn is

Bomber
Resistant to pre releases, because it has very strong toe springs

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[bean]

Alpinist brakes are actually fine. They deploy and stow away.

They deploy but they're so weak they might as well not be there.