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TGR is a print medium SO write your post and go advanced and read to see if it makes any senseQuote:
Originally Posted by forumskier
you might wonder how i would have > 31000 posts ?
Answering the same question on which glue to use even tho
its all in the 276 pages of mounting one's fucking skis
And now back to our regularly scheduled program....
Picked up a pair of Montero ARs from some dentist on SkiTalk. Man those people turn over some high end skis. Not what most maggots are looking for but I ski in Southern Vermont where it's mostly tilted hockey rinks. Got a great end of season deal on some Strives.
ETA: I measured about 8 times after mounting on 2 different 2X4s. Used a paper template but now I don't 'member which one. Also, no beers or weed until after they were done.
Attachment 498432
Attachment 498433
Insert install query for you guys --
First, some background - I've mounted at least 20 pairs of skis so know my way around the process, I use a drill press and proper bits/tap, I take my time, and my mounts are almost always perfect. Most of my mounts are alpine, but I've done a couple for pins. For pins I do the one-hole-at-a-time process to ensure good alignment.
Currerently I'm building out a 3-ski touring quiver. Last season I absolutely loved the the ATK Trofeos (with R01 plate) on my touring DD skis, and I don't want to use any other touring binding this season. So instead of buying more Trofeos for my two other touring skis, I am planning to put inserts in all three pairs and then move the Trofeos between the skis as needed. I tour about 20 days per season and am on my DDs 80-90% of the time, so I anticipate only moving the bindings a few times per season (essentially, when we get significant fresh and I want something wider--unfortunately rare here in Maine nowadays--or if I go out west).
So I've got one ski (my touring DDs) where I need to enlarge the holes for inserts, and two skis where I need to drill new holes for inserts.
My questions for the insert pros:
- when I am enlarging the holes, any tips to ensure that I am dead center? My gut is to just eye it up as best I can, and then clamp the ski to the press and drill.
- For enlarging the holes, would you all do one insert at a time for a pin mount to make sure my alignment is right on?
- For the new mounts on the other two skis, do you all recommend doing a dry mount first, and then enlarging the holes later, or just jumping right into doing the inserts? If the latter, do you do one insert at a time to ensure good pin alignment? I expect that doing it one at a time will be time consuming, but I'm fine with that assuming it gets me the perfect mount that I want.
Any other tips for a first time insert install? I really want to avoid any screw ups and/or needing rescue inserts.
Thanks mags
My way of doing it. The skis that already have been mounted. Just drill the holes with the correct insert bit, then tap. I'd do it freehand, just bc I never use a drill press. For the virgin skis I'd drill and mount for the ordinary screws and dry install, just because...
When I'm confident about holes location, i.e. when the bindings matches holes for a proper mount. I would drill and tap for all inserts at the same time. Works for me...
re drilling pre existing holes for inserts is no big deal. Just keep the drill bit plumb and as usual using a sharp bit helps.
See if you can get one of the 3d printed jigs for that atk. Then clamp the jigs to the ski aligning the holes using a normal size 3,5 bit and drill the holes bigger. It will help the alignment.Quote:
Originally Posted by waxloaf
New mount as long as I know I want the binding in that spot on the ski I mount inserts directly.
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Normally I just think of glue for the screw holes, but one of my mounts one time from Tahoe Sports Hub had “glue” all up under the bindings platforms as well, pretty liberal amounts. Didn’t notice much expansion under the binding after full curing either. When I pulled those screws out, and tried taking bindings off, it seemed like there was quite a bit of added retention from the “glue” and binding bottom surface w/ the topsheet, but not so much it ruined anything during removal. I liked that.
I’ve only experienced this once, and I remember the guy who did it was the lead Tech at Tahoe Sports Hub and he did it for me last minute at the end of the day in less than 10 minutes time.
What was this, why was it done, and what kind of glue could it have been with little expansion?
Back to the inserts - enlarging existing holes, the larger bit will self center on the hole, I wouldn’t bother with the drill press for this. Another option for the new skis is to use the drill press to make your own jig out of a piece of hardwood or something like Baltic birch plywood. Get the holes right on this, then clamp it to the ski.
I’m no expert but PVA glues (classic yellow wood glue) don’t expand.Quote:
Originally Posted by forumskier
Polyurethane glues like Gorilla or Lepage are the ones that expand.
I do like a little overflow on the topsheet, it certainly helps solidify the mount.
That Swissific dude used 2 sided tape so there is that
edit: This was not april fools, Swiss would have actualy done this
There was the April Fools velcro mount.
He was using regular glue and was late to leave the shop for a date. It didn't suck down into the hole so he put more on the hole and mounted it. At the end of the shift, ya get what ya get.Quote:
Originally Posted by forumskier
I use fucking elmers. A toothpick to get it down into the hole. Fills space water might get into but I find my screws rarely move with or without glue. Just waterproofing really. Never had a rotted hole either but worked on a couple.
If I drilled my skis with the frequency that some mags do, I might use something burlier.
Roo Glue, how many times must I repeat this?
Keeping this on in the back burner for future use. Got a few local folks who might need this treatment...Quote:
Originally Posted by pfluffenmeister
276 pages apparentlyQuote:
Originally Posted by buttahflake
I watched a short vid of atomic race room types mounting bindings and they didnt use ANY glue
That was about my thought too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Djongo Unchained
And yeah, glue waterproofs. Lubrication of the screw is a benefit too. Try running a screw in by hand dry vs. with glue.
At the end of the day it’s just drilling holes and driving screws home.
I still overthink it though.
You can rebuild a stripped hole with 24 hr epoxy if needed and its in the 276 pages at least 50 times
and yup its all just good layout
So I'll start by saying I'm apparently an idiot, as I managed to fuck up a mount. And I've also searched through a bit of this thread (first few pages, last few) but haven't found exactly what I'm wondering.
What did I do wrong? I've mounted bindings before, doing exactly the same thing, with good results. This time I have both a heel piece and toe piece that are slightly askew (one a little more than the other--the bad one is maybe 3-4mm off center--laterally, they're fine fore/aft). Now, I will say that when I ski the things I don't notice, or I don't think I do (can't tell what I'm imagining vs. what's real).
Measured many times, tapped, drilled freehand. When I lined the bindings up with the taps before drilling all looked good. Makes me want to use a drill press from now on, although I understand that I shouldn't have to. Only thing I can think of is that somehow the bit managed to wander, but again I did the same thing I've always done. I will say it's possible I've only done one other pair that had a metal sheet, so I'm wondering if that might have contributed? No idea why that might be the case...
Pisses me off.
Signed,
Ashamed
sure its been asked but can't find it using search..
doesn't look like you can buy svst products without being a shop, anyone know what glue is most similar/the same?
What's your method for finding the longitudinal centerline? The further apart your measured centerline points are, the less chance there is to introduce some error.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dexter Rutecki
If you really want the SVST stuff:Quote:
Originally Posted by bearcub69
https://www.slidewright.com/dp/SVST-...-Sealant-2-oz/
If you really want the SVST stuff, just buy Titebond II. That’s what it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by singlesline
Click the link for the SDS here:
https://www.svst.com/Shop/Hole-Plugs...Glue-Pint.html
and get this:
Attachment 499557
That’s Titebond II.
Yeah, I checked many times and once or twice more even after I'd tapped and was ready to drill just in case. I want to say my centerline points were around heel piece to toe piece distance?? So based on my BSL a little over 314mm. I think long enough, and definitely the same as I've done before without issue. I really think I got movement on the bit when I started drilling, I just don't fucking know why. My marks and taps had to be right...I'm so paranoid about measuring, and still I fucked it up. Motherfucker.Quote:
Originally Posted by FullStop
thanks, I know everyone has their own opinion on glues/epoxy and it's been discussed a bunch but the svst is what ive used in the past at my local shop and its always held up for me
I use a T-square to mark lines from either metal ski edge and spilt the difference
then I centerpunch with a 4 " drywall screw, then drill a small pilot hole so the 5/32 bit doesnt walk on the top sheet
or one can also use whichever sized bit they have obsessed over in a 3 page post on TGR
measure from tail to figure where the binding goes front to back
I had to remount a tech toe 1cm rearward from the other ski cuz of a delam/ pullout and buddy said he couldn't tell the difference. i did ask him if he wanted every thing moved on both skis but he said don't bother
Yeah, I basically do exactly the same, but I drill twice for the small pilot holes--tiny hole first (like the smallest possible bit), then one maybe one third the size of the actual bit. Maybe still not enough? Anyway, maybe there's not an answer to this, but clearly I did something wrong and would like to not repeat it.
Last mount I did I thought the recommended line was off when measuring from the tail. But measuring from the tip, the lines were in the same spot. Turns out one ski had 3mm more plastic bumper on the tail.Quote:
Originally Posted by XXX-er
Point is measure a bunch of the variables if you’re OCD.
I can imagine using different bits forQuote:
Originally Posted by Dexter Rutecki
pilot holes could lead to the final hole wandering a little. Personally I mark w/ an awl, then a punch, deep enough to guide the tip of the bit.
You need to use a really sharp bit for metal sheets. You can use a dull bit but you will be spinning longer before it cuts and you will be pressing down on the bit harder making things worse if shit goes wrong. It's harder to recover a fucked up hole placement with metal in the ski.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dexter Rutecki
the bit always follows the pilot hole so if you drill the pilot hole correctly the hole will be correct, also a pilot hole is easier to get in the exact right place than the large bit, also if you fucked up a measuremnet the tiny hole might be easier to deal with than the big hole
but I don't see any reason to drill a pilot with multiple bits ?
(You might consider removing the bindings and rechecking the layout. You can fill holes and redrill if off by 3-4mm.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Dexter Rutecki
Coupled with our ski centering & binding layout tools, the SlideWright Boot Sole Length & Center Gauge helps considerably to double check your alignment & positioning (and confirm BSC & BSL). You can download the PDF and print your own.
Attachment 499566
Marking your holes with an awl, highlight them, place bindings over the holes to confirm is good practice. Adjust as needed, then use a punch, to enlarge the hole for a positive seat for your SHARP drill bit.
Attachment 499565
My thinking was that it was easier to be exact with the pilot holes that way (using a tiny bit first to really be exactly in the punch), and by enlarging the initial hole it reduced the chances for the bit to wander.Quote:
Originally Posted by chicken feathers
I will say it took a long time to drill every hole. Once the bit hit the metal I did have to press somewhat hard to really get the metal filing to start flying around. But I wasn't aware of the bit moving at that point (doesn't mean it didn't). Maybe the problem was a dull bit.Quote:
Originally Posted by halliday
Thanks, Alpin. I've known about that centergauge pdf thing, but have never used it. I'll try it whenever I next mount. I do follow the procedure you described with marking, punching, checking with the bindings after, etc. Just likely not a very sharp bit...
Make sure your centerline runs 6-8” past the ends of both the heel and toe jigs. Use a spring loaded hole punch to mark your drill holes , then check that they are all equal distance from the center line. Drilling a pilot hole without a hole punch will result in drill bit travel, and your mount will not be aligned.
Be sure you find the center of the ski using the skis actual edges on the bottom of the ski, NOT the center of the topsheet.
Heh, stopped reading when I saw the words 'jigs.' What do I look like, a World Cup ski tech?? Take it easy, Mr. Big Time Shop Pro.Quote:
Originally Posted by tenB
But its so much easier to measure off the topsheet :)Quote:
Originally Posted by tenB
And ill continue to measure off the topsheet :) hopefully it doesn't come back to bite me
Yup this ^^ cuz even if you don't use jigs drawing the lines on painters tape between point that are farther apart gives a more accurate centerline for better layoutQuote:
Originally Posted by tenB
same with measuring off the steel ski edge becuz most top sheets have rounded cap edges which are hard to get a good measurment with a t-square so they are not at all accurate if you want good layout
its all about good layout & best practises
4 " drywall screw works for a really sharp center punch and you get a whole bag of them for a few bucks
Dexter what binding is it you mounted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dexter Rutecki
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They're blue.
Don't actually know...STH 816, is that how Salomon designates them? These:
Attachment 499881
That's a STH2. Those brakes look really wide btw.
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Attachment 499918
Mounting my own fucking skis with the Mottn jig. Next level resource for the collective.
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