F1 Fans, what is going on???

**4matic** · 10-05-2006, 08:55 AM

Originally Posted by vano

I agree that JV and JPM are both in the twilight of their F1 careers. There are many other F1 drivers that spend years doing average drivers but never consider moving to Nascar. They would rather move to other racing series. So Nascar becomming a viable option for F1 drivers is a novelty and interesting since its a pretty far from F1 both in racing and "cultural" terms.

Last I checked (about 2 years ago) Schumy was the world's top paid "athlete" pulling in over 100 mill per year with all the endorsements and stuff.

JV and JPM both raced here and know "the culture" maybe they like it. Both were very good on the ovals in CART. Many European drivers have new respect for ovals and actually enjoy them once they get the chance.

Schumi is the highest salaried athlete but Tiger Woods makes the most money.

**4matic** · 10-05-2006, 09:06 AM

Originally Posted by f2f

vano, europeans have had the option to do indycar forever, but very few chose that, instead sticking to the DTM cirquit in europe. now with nascar being much more popular and paying much more, one or two europeans may go there, but i somehow think it's not going to be a mass migration of F1 retirees. there's plenty of car racing left in europe for them to do.

Ovals are too dangerous for the F1 "drivers". Schumi said so himself..

**vano** · 10-05-2006, 09:08 AM

Originally Posted by 4matic

Ovals are too dangerous for the F1 "drivers". Schumi said so himself..

Riiight. Its because the F1 drivers can't handle a steady state turn. Where is Tom Cruise when we need him!

**4matic** · 10-05-2006, 09:11 AM

Originally Posted by vano

Riiight. Its because the F1 drivers can't handle a steady state turn. Where is Tom Cruise when we need him!

Ovals are risky. Ralf found that out on the 1/4 oval at Indy.

Ovals require equal parts skill and courage. JPM has lots of both.

**pechelman** · 10-05-2006, 09:11 AM

Originally Posted by vano

Riiight. Its because the F1 drivers can't handle a steady state turn. Where is Tom Cruise when we need him!

No, but they cant handle stupid nascar drivers bumping them mid turn and crashing into a solid concrete brick wall while cornering at over 1g going 150mph.

**f2f** · 10-05-2006, 09:22 AM

4matic has a point re: ovals. it may be that the drivers can handle them, but two years ago it showed at indianapolis that their banked turns push the cars to a completely different limit than any other track.

on the other hand Eau Rouge could make a very interesting section for NASCAR racers. i'd pay to see that clusterfuck.

remember the f1 vs nascar shootout? montoya vs jeff gordon? gordon's words after that showed a true appreciation for a car that performs at the very top of current technology. (just trying to get us back on track with respect to bashing two series that aren't even in direct competition)

**PNWbrit** · 10-05-2006, 09:27 AM

It's quite simple why they're going to NASCAR.

One of the conventional retirement homes for washed out F1 drivers who were not yet ready to become team owners or commentators was the U.S. open wheel championships in it's various forms CART, Indycar whatever it is called this week. Since the championship is now divided and almost completely worthless the only place these guys can make money driving is NASCAR. These particular two both came to F1 from the U.S. so the switch was somewhat inevitable rather than their other rather less profitable option of driving DTM, touring cars or sport cars

Both have underachieved in their F1 careers - JV lucked his way into the best car and a championship. JPM has been whipped by all his team mates at McLaren. The motorbike/tennis accident last year was the last straw.

Last two races of this season should be epic.

**BushwackerinPA** · 10-05-2006, 09:30 AM

Originally Posted by cinnepa

unfortunately $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ talks

after reading the whole thread that the main reason.

**vano** · 10-05-2006, 09:30 AM

Originally Posted by f2f

4matic has a point re: ovals. it may be that the drivers can handle them, but two years ago it showed at indianapolis that their banked turns push the cars to a completely different limit than any other track.

on the other hand Eau Rouge could make a very interesting section for NASCAR racers. i'd pay to see that clusterfuck.

remember the f1 vs nascar shootout? montoya vs jeff gordon? gordon's words after that showed a true appreciation for a car that performs at the very top of current technology. (just trying to get us back on track with respect to bashing two series that aren't even in direct competition)

Right, IIRC thats when gordon made the comment about his vision almost blacking out under braking. Anyone that can spend 2 hours pushing the limits of a car that can pull over 2gs in cornering, acceleration and braking is a damn good driver.

Regarding the ovals. I think the issue in Indy was tire construction primarily, and specifically with Michelin. Bridgestone cars were fine, hence the BS race with only 3 teams out on the track. F1 cars are phenomenal at turning and put a huge amount of pressure on their tires during a turn, now you introduce some steep banking to help go even faster around the turn and pull even more Gs and voila, tire blows.

**philippeR** · 10-05-2006, 09:35 AM

Originally Posted by f2f

4matic has a point re: ovals. it may be that the drivers can handle them, but two years ago it showed at indianapolis that their banked turns push the cars to a completely different limit than any other track.

on the other hand Eau Rouge could make a very interesting section for NASCAR racers. i'd pay to see that clusterfuck.

remember the f1 vs nascar shootout? montoya vs jeff gordon? gordon's words after that showed a true appreciation for a car that performs at the very top of current technology. (just trying to get us back on track with respect to bashing two series that aren't even in direct competition)

Agreed. Piquet ugly crash at indy demonstrate it. I remember at the time Andretti (a man that knew how to turn left and right. And how to brake...) explaining that above 200MPH on the oval, you enterered a zone unknown to F1 drivers, where the car behave in ways they were not prepared to handle.

But I still think the Eau Rouge is one of these places that separate boys from men...

**Tippster** · 10-05-2006, 09:38 AM

As a safety measure to reduce speeds at the two high-banked superspeedways (Daytona and Talladega), a restrictor plate must be placed between the carburetor and intake manifold to restrict air and fuel flow and, therefore, power. This has reduced speeds at these tracks to the point that higher speeds are now seen at some tracks where restrictor plates are not mandated, specifically Atlanta Motor Speedway and Texas Motor Speedway. While Atlanta is generally considered the fastest track, restrictor plates are not mandated there, in 2004 and 2005 higher qualifying speeds were posted at Texas, earning it the title of the circuit's fastest track. Unrestricted, Nextel Cup cars produce over 750 horsepower (600 kW) and can run at speeds in excess of 200 mph. Rusty Wallace completed a 2004 test for NASCAR at Talladega in which he used an unrestricted motor to complete average lap speeds of 221 mph and top speeds near 230 mph (Source: [1] NASCAR.com).

The cars race at speeds often greater than 300 km/h (about 190 mph). The formula introduces a number of restrictions and specifications that cars must meet. These are designed, amongst other things, to keep the ever-increasing cornering speeds in safe ranges. From 2006[1] engines have been restricted to normally-aspirated V8s with a displacement (capacity) of 2.4 litres (providing around 800 bhp [560 kW] at nearly 20,000 rpm). The performance of the cars is highly dependent on electronics, aerodynamics, suspension and tyres. The formula has seen many evolutions and changes through the history of the sport. There have been many different types of engines; normally aspirated, supercharged and turbocharged, ranging from straight-4 to H16, with displacements from 1.5 litres to 4.5 litres. The maximum power achieved in the history of the series was around 1200 bhp in racing trim, during the 1980s turbo era.

Not so different. As much as i hate the NASCAR mindset, you gotta give props where they're due.

I'd also say that Indycar (before the split) was every bit as technologically advanced as F1. The cars were bigger and faster too, but that was mainly due to the more open tracks.

I honestly wish that some of the Street tracks in F1 would be widened. The Monaco GP seems like it is usually decided before it even starts.

**mitch buchannon** · 10-05-2006, 09:39 AM

In terms of forces applied to drivers, I would think F1 would vastly exceed that of any other racing series. IRL cars setup to turn both directions would be quite a bit slower on that backwards turn 1 area of IMS. Any retard with a sponsor can race IRL at this point.

Hijack: I really wish US open wheel racing would get their shit together. We really need a top notch diplomat like Bernie Ecclestone

to unite things.

**philippeR** · 10-05-2006, 09:42 AM

Originally Posted by vano

Right, IIRC thats when gordon made the comment about his vision almost blacking out under braking. Anyone that can spend 2 hours pushing the limits of a car that can pull over 2gs in cornering, acceleration and braking is a damn good driver.

Up to 5 gs when cornering and braking
1.5g when accelerating

**PNWbrit** · 10-05-2006, 09:59 AM

Originally Posted by Tippster

I'd also say that Indycar (before the split) was every bit as technologically advanced as F1. The cars were bigger and faster too, but that was mainly due to the more open tracks.

Tipp with respect I think you're wrong.

For starters american open wheel racing is based on off the shelf chassis from Lola, Reynard, etc. F1 car is built from ground up by each team rules prohibit sharing of chassis.

F1 technology has had two peaks pre-94 and the Senna accident the cars ran with full traction control, ABS, Active suspension. Auto up and down shift gear boxes. At the time there was serious talk among F1 engineers that it would be very simple to make the cars go faster by not having a driver to mess stuff up.

Post Senna the cars have become more aerodynamcially complex than jet fighters. F1 aerodynamics is the cutting edge of the industry and attracts the best and brightest as well as using the most complex wind tunnels in private ownership. Engine technology both with the old V10s and the new V8s is light years ahead - materials, valve train design, bearing technology etc. Add the exoctic materials used in chassis, suspension, ballast, brakes and the computer and engine management systems used for data logging, real time two way communication, transmissions, diffs and traction control.

Which series is more exciting or value for money is a different argument. That the flow of drivers, engineeers and designers goes uphill toward to F1 is undeniable.

**4matic** · 10-05-2006, 10:04 AM

Originally Posted by philippeR

Agreed. Piquet ugly crash at indy demonstrate it. I remember at the time Andretti (a man that knew how to turn left and right. And how to brake...) explaining that above 200MPH on the oval, you enterered a zone unknown to F1 drivers, where the car behave in ways they were not prepared to handle.
...

I got Piquet's autograph on my helmet of champions the year he came back after the accident, (helmet has 5 world champions and 20+ Indy 500 winners). Piquet was like a mole... He sees fans and ducks into the garage. It was minutes before driver introductions and he was riding by on his bicycle in the back of gasoline alley. His SMOKING hot girlfirend was laughing that someone found him. He was a nice guy though and laughed himself..

**pechelman** · 10-05-2006, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by mitch buchannon

In terms of forces applied to drivers, I would think F1 would vastly exceed that of any other racing series. IRL cars setup to turn both directions would be quite a bit slower on that backwards turn 1 area of IMS. Any retard with a sponsor can race IRL at this point.

Mitch, while PEAK levels might be higher, sustained levels are most definitely the issue here. Remember that texas race from a few years ago that had to be canceld to due drivers blacking out under the sustained 4g+ lateral accelerations?

**Woodsy** · 10-05-2006, 10:43 AM

when your excuse for never winning retieres, you try something else to hide your inferior taletn and make money.
plus the $ to be made drawing in the working class hispanic families that are already prevelant in NASACAR's sphere of influence is huge

**4matic** · 10-05-2006, 02:57 PM

http://www.speedtv.com/articles/nascar/nextel/33132/

Juan Pablo Montoya was fourth fastest in ARCA practice this Thursday, in preparation for tomorrow’s Food World 250 at Talladega Superspeedway.

The Colombian posted a best lap of 191.765 mph in the draft, trailing series regulars Mike Wallace (192.432 mph), Kelly Bires (192.177 mph) and Frank Kimmel (191.792 mph). Steve Wallace rounded out the top-five.

I'm certain everyone here will be rooting for:

3 46 Frank Kimmel/Clarksville IN Pork The Other White Meat Ford 49.929 191.79

**mitch buchannon** · 10-05-2006, 07:39 PM

Originally Posted by 4matic

I'm certain everyone here will be rooting for:

3 46 Frank Kimmel/Clarksville IN Pork The Other White Meat Ford 49.929 191.79

This dude is an ARCA juggernaut (beeeeeeatch). He's something like 50, been racing ARCA for years and has won the series many times, but has no desire to go to Busch. He got the pole in the race I pit crewed at...

The Pork car is excellent. "Pork - The Official Meat of ARCA."

Pretty sure TGR needs an Official Meat. Spam perhaps?

**mitch buchannon** · 10-22-2006, 01:26 PM

Holy shit. That was a pretty great race to end a pretty great season.

Villneuve can fuck himself if he says all of Schumi's titles are flawed. I guess you're a little bit bitter when you're racing Nascar Trucks at this point.

**XtrPickels** · 10-22-2006, 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by mitch buchannon

Pretty sure TGR needs an Official Meat. Spam perhaps?

uhh bacon?

**Benny Profane** · 10-22-2006, 06:39 PM

This thread is depressing. It's depressing because it's gotten to the point when one could seriously debate a switch like this without gagging. My theory is that the powers that be in Nascar saw that Will Farrell movie and thought "What a great idea! Brilliant! We need new bad guys for the trash to root against. Gordon is too cute and American, so how about some fir - in - erz that anybody south and a whole bunch of people north of the Mason Dixon will immediatly hate hate hate. Like the tear - er - ists!"

I hope they're getting paid a lot to live in whatever shit town they have to.

**f2f** · 10-22-2006, 07:09 PM

Originally Posted by Benny Profane

My theory is that the powers that be in Nascar saw that Will Farrell movie and thought "What a great idea! Brilliant! We need new bad guys for the trash to root against. Gordon is too cute and American, so how about some fir - in - erz that anybody south and a whole bunch of people north of the Mason Dixon will immediatly hate hate hate. Like the tear - er - ists!"

you may be too close to the truth for your liking. "taladega nights" was pitched and shot halfway through as "will farrell as a nascar driver". it wasn't about the sport or anything, it was about marketability.

**f2f** · 10-22-2006, 07:10 PM

good race for the finish. even better was the moet-chandon champagne we drank to commemorate the worst driver ever to win 8 titles. it'll be nice to not have to watch his face next year.

**TNKen** · 10-22-2006, 09:57 PM

It's not about $$$$ for these guys, they all have more than they need. It's about feeding the ego. Feed the ego with exposure. NASCAR has multiple times the exposure of F1. NASCAR and their media team will pump this to no end.

The average NASCAR fan knows nothing about F1, except they have funny looking cars that go fast. There ain't no technology, just bigger motors, and they ain't even got a gear shift.

I live in Bristol, TN, and by reason of such, am qualified to espouse on this point.

BTW, top fuel dragsters and funny cars exert the most g-forces on a driver, both at accelleration and shut down.

Ken