Ebikes on forest service land?

[grinch]

You're clearly lying. Grinch has assured us multiple times that everyone in Yurp is on mopeds. I've definitely seen this locally, particularly on one DH trail in a system that is open to class 1.

I have added some new hats to my merch store. I have a new red trucker cap " grinch was right aboot everything"
You should get a couple because, well, i was right.
I wasn't going to comment but ive been smiling ear to ear reading a lot of the same things i was saying 5 years ago now being repeated by several that were haters back then. Its a long list. Buy the hat and i'll give you a few tips, buy two and ill write out the full page. Code "tgrtips"

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[S_jenks]

You people might as well buy dirt bikes at this point and call it a day. And you all know that’s the undeniable end of the road for moped users.

Barring any injury- y’all are just too fat, too lazy, or too old.

Have you tried pickleball?

[XXX-er]

After a 6 pak i like to rally thru the P-lot throwing my McDonalds wrappers out the window and I'm talking about the non biodegradable foam wrappers

[stuckathuntermtn]

You people might as well buy dirt bikes at this point and call it a day. And you all know that’s the undeniable end of the road for moped users.

Barring any injury- y’all are just too fat, too lazy, or too old.

Have you tried pickleball?

I saw an electric dirt bike that actually seemed pretty bad ass. No noise, no smell, etc.

[XXX-er]

Speaking of bad-ass a local redneck told me the battery on his sauron shit the bed, the store told him there is no warranty so he told the store owner he was gona thro that battery thru his front window which would indicate a problem dealing with a new focus group

[alias_rice]

[emoji638]][emoji640][emoji639]][emoji638][emoji639][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]][emoji639][emoji638][emoji640]]You're clearly lying. Grinch has assured us multiple times that everyone in Yurp is on mopeds. I've definitely seen this locally, particularly on one DH trail in a system that is open to class [emoji637].

Europe is a very big place believe it or not and I’m guessing different countries may have different usage rates. In Switzerland at least, e-bikes seem to be the majority on trails.

I’m gonna pop champagne when Park City finally sees the light and opens up to my moped.

[Name Redacted]

I saw an electric dirt bike that actually seemed pretty bad ass. No noise, no smell, etc.

Noise and smell are all part of the fun! The Stark Vargs are nice, but the sound they make is hard to get used to. I'm sure they'll continue to gain in popularity and I'll probably own one someday, but they just aren't there yet for most riders. Longer battery life, lighter weight, and some fine tuning to torque/power settings are still needed. Oh, and price of course.

[XXX-er]

I've noticed a LOT of po-lice cracking down on E-bike electric type articales on google news but they look to be the electric motor cycles and also electric scooters as opposed to class1 E-bikes I think there are too many people getting old who want the class1 the argument people are too lazy or I don't like some one beating me is just not gona work

[alias_rice]

I've noticed a LOT of po-lice cracking down on E-bike electric type articales on google news but they look to be the electric motor cycles and also electric scooters as opposed to class1 E-bikes I think there are too many people getting old who want the class1 the argument people are too lazy or I don't like some one beating me is just not gona work

Cops are getting very aggressive with the teenagers in my neighborhood on their Surrons. Most of my kids’ buddies have been pulled over at least once, but as of now they get 3 warnings before they impound.

[Whiteroom_Guardian]

The "they way 20 pounds more" argument is outdated. My lady's bike (size medium men's bike) is 44 pounds all in. My size medium analog enduro bike is like 38 pounds. Barely any difference.

Meanwhile 1,250# horse and rider combos are just blowing holes in every single trail year round.....and we just have to accept that is somehow less damaging to trails?

I get where people are coming from, and maybe in some extreme urban interface areas there are hordes of 300 pound orthodontists spinning 6 laps in a row on 55 pound old e-bikes? In much of the remote west that simply isn't the case. My fiance can't do 2 laps on her light modern e-bike, but she could literally string up 25 horses and carry an entire army of people up the trail no problem as many times as she wants......year round.....in sloppy trail destroying fall/spring conditions?

[Name Redacted]

They have been kicking the Surron kids off the bike paths and roads here too. Surrons are stuck in that weird in-between spot that makes them illegal everywhere except moto trails. I do have a neighbor who got his street legal after about $5K in upgrades. Stark Varg has a street legal version now. $13k . 80hp and lighter than most street bikes makes for an intriguing super moto candidate.

[Name Redacted]

The "they way 20 pounds more" argument is outdated. My lady's bike (size medium men's bike) is 44 pounds all in. My size medium analog enduro bike is like 38 pounds. Barely any difference. Meanwhile 1,250# horse and rider combos are just blowing holes in every single trail year round.....and we just have to accept that is somehow less damaging to trails? I get where people are coming from, and maybe in some extreme urban interface areas there are hordes of 300 pound orthodontists spinning 6 laps in a row on 55 pound old e-bikes? In much of the remote west that simply isn't the case. My fiance can't do 2 laps on her light modern e-bike, but she could literally string up 25 horses and carry an entire army of people up the trail no problem as many times as she wants......year round.....in sloppy trail destroying fall/spring conditions?

18 rd in Fruita is now allowing class 1 ebikes as a test so it'll be interesting to see the impact. I agree, heavier bikes don't cause more damage, and the theory that they enable more laps and thus more wear isn't really justified either. If that's the case, why not ban bike races? They put an entire year's worth of use on a trail system in a single day.

[XXX-er]

I was a 14 yr old kid with a gas dirt bike WAY back in the day, the only difference between that and a Sauron is you can be stealth on a Sauron so the kids have been under the radar riding on streets and local paths for what maybe 2 yr now which I never did Iwas always in the bush But now they will have to be on moto trails becuz the genie riding a Sauron is out of the bottle so every cop every city ordanence nazi every ken and every karen has been reading about this stuff on their phone and they will be gunning for the Sauron rider

scooter folks on bikes with no insurance/ no registration/ no helmet/ no class 5 license have been getting a 600+ $ fine in BC for some time now


before I bought my 1st Eeb 4 yrs ago I checked with the local bike area powers-that-be to make sure Eebs had " social licence " and so all the builders/ maintenace guys the club VP these are the people spending the club money and making policy are riding Eeb so no problem, the area does not allow class 2 or 3 or horses

[toast2266]

If that's the case, why not ban bike races? They put an entire year's worth of use on a trail system in a single day.

With lots of bike races, the race is the funding source for trail maintenance.

It's funny reading comments from the pro electric vehicle crowd. Regardless of the class or type of bike, everyone makes the exact same arguments. This place is pretty anti-surron, but the comments in support of class 1 on here are the exact same arguments that people make elsewhere in support of surron access. And to be fair to the electric motor crowd, I've also heard essentially identical arguments in favor of access from the dirt bike crowd.

Everything has impact. Every trail use causes erosion. The heavier the vehicle is, the more impact and erosion it causes. The faster the vehicle goes, the more impact and erosion it causes. The more miles the vehicle covers, the more impact and erosion it causes. The more power going to the wheels, the more impact and erosion it causes.

Everyone is going to draw their own line as to how much is too much. People almost universally draw lines so that whatever vehicle they own (or want to own) is fine, but the vehicle that's a notch above what they own should be banned. Speculation as to how much impact they cause with their preferred vehicle is largely self serving bullshit.

As I've always said, it really just needs to be considered on a trail by trail basis. If ebikers got more organized and started spending as much money on trail maintenance as they do on mopeds, maybe this would be less of an issue.

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[Name Redacted]

I owned a Surron for a short time. It was too small for an average size male. My wife rode it, crashed, tore a tendon in her hand and was out of work for 3 months... so we sold it. ugh.Funny enough, I just witnessed a kid blow past us on the bike path going like 30 on a Surron. Not good, that's why they do need to get shut down. Like I suggested before, make Ebikes of all kinds, in state and out of state, pay for OHV registrations. This would easily fund trail building and maintenance. Just like the dirt bikers do. If anything, the analog MTBs should pay into this too. Small yearly fee for a massive benefit. Instead, many towns around here fund the trails for the economic benefit they bring, which is also brought by bikes, and dirt bikers believe it or not. A $10k+ bike purchase also pays a lot of sales tax.

[toast2266]

ILike I suggested before, make Ebikes of all kinds, in state and out of state, pay for OHV registrations. This would easily fund trail building and maintenance. Just like the dirt bikers do. If anything, the analog MTBs should pay into this too. Small yearly fee for a massive benefit. Instead, many towns around here fund the trails for the economic benefit they bring, which is also brought by bikes, and dirt bikers believe it or not. A $10k+ bike purchase also pays a lot of sales tax.

Agreed, although I'd rather see it implemented on a more local basis. State governments have a solid track record of taking those sort of user fees and then diverting the funds to other places. I've ridden a few places that essentially charge for parking at the trailhead, which goes towards maintaining the network.



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[XXX-er]

" I owned a Surron for a short time. It was too small for an average size male. "

thats cuz its ^^ intended focus group is a 14 yr old male who will rally it around the local 7-11/ schools/ parks/ trails , ssomeone who lives out of town can just get a real dirt bike cuz noise is not an issue, I think this product is going down

[Name Redacted]

Yeah. The Surron has a governor that regulates it to like 20 mph. But if you cut a little wire, it’ll do 45mph. Probably shoulda held off on that for the wife. Oops.

But they are kinda fun. They were supposed to have a full size one coming out but i havent seen that yet.

[jackstraw]

Agreed, although I'd rather see it implemented on a more local basis. State governments have a solid track record of taking those sort of user fees and then diverting the funds to other places. I've ridden a few places that essentially charge for parking at the trailhead, which goes towards maintaining the network.



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Maybe they should pay all of us over in the dig thread? [emoji23]

[skaredshtles]

The "they way 20 pounds more" argument is outdated. My lady's bike (size medium men's bike) is 44 pounds all in. My size medium analog enduro bike is like 38 pounds. Barely any difference.

Meanwhile 1,250# horse and rider combos are just blowing holes in every single trail year round.....and we just have to accept that is somehow less damaging to trails?

I get where people are coming from, and maybe in some extreme urban interface areas there are hordes of 300 pound orthodontists spinning 6 laps in a row on 55 pound old e-bikes? In much of the remote west that simply isn't the case. My fiance can't do 2 laps on her light modern e-bike, but she could literally string up 25 horses and carry an entire army of people up the trail no problem as many times as she wants......year round.....in sloppy trail destroying fall/spring conditions?

This is still just an attempt to justify unlawful behavior. I mean, i get it, but that's what it is.

[Dantheman]

Europe is a very big place believe it or not and I’m guessing different countries may have different usage rates. In Switzerland at least, e-bikes seem to be the majority on trails. I’m gonna pop champagne when Park City finally sees the light and opens up to my moped.

The assertion was that all of Europe has gone moped, not a nuanced argument about differential adoption in select locales. For PC, just ride the roads up and take the unsanctioned skidders back down.

Cops are getting very aggressive with the teenagers in my neighborhood on their Surrons. Most of my kids’ buddies have been pulled over at least once, but as of now they get 3 warnings before they impound.

About time. Three warnings is far too generous, though.

The "they way 20 pounds more" argument is outdated. My lady's bike (size medium men's bike) is 44 pounds all in. My size medium analog enduro bike is like 38 pounds. Barely any difference. Meanwhile 1,250# horse and rider combos are just blowing holes in every single trail year round.....and we just have to accept that is somehow less damaging to trails? I get where people are coming from, and maybe in some extreme urban interface areas there are hordes of 300 pound orthodontists spinning 6 laps in a row on 55 pound old e-bikes? In much of the remote west that simply isn't the case. My fiance can't do 2 laps on her light modern e-bike, but she could literally string up 25 horses and carry an entire army of people up the trail no problem as many times as she wants......year round.....in sloppy trail destroying fall/spring conditions?

No one is going to argue that equestrians and outfitters running pack trains are not the real shitbags here. Those "extreme urban interface areas" are where the vast majority of MTB miles are ridden (and arguably includes destination areas that are nominally rural but have urban crowds, e.g. CB, Moab, etc.), and now that we are several years into the ebike experiment it is pretty clear that ebikes increase total users, total miles ridden, and miles ridden per capita. Whether that is a good or bad thing is a separate site-specific discussion. The proliferation of SxS got tons of motorized routes around Moab closed recently and that should be considered a cautionary tale.

[grinch]

Ya cause side by sides are just like bikes, exactly. My redkneck friends even call them bikes

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[Name Redacted]

SxSs have fucked up access for a lot of user groups by being more capable, popular, entitled, destructive, etc. than all the others put together. Ebikes run the risk of doing the same things to the non-motorized crowd. It is too bad, because they could be an ally to the rest of the non motorized crowd, but unfortunately their popularity and capabilities pretty much guarantee that they will cause things to get worse before they get bettter.

[jackstraw]

SxSs have fucked up access for a lot of user groups by being more capable, popular, entitled, destructive, etc. than all the others put together. Ebikes run the risk of doing the same things to the non-motorized crowd. It is too bad, because they could be an ally to the rest of the non motorized crowd, but unfortunately their popularity and capabilities pretty much guarantee that they will cause things to get worse before they get bettter.

It's the lack of understanding the roots and the essence of what mtb actually is that's creating the problem in my mind. These people buying eebs that have never ridden a regular mtb or researches anything about them are acting like idiots. Obviously not all, but it's the idiots that always stand out. I'm not sure what the answer is aside from schooling them (as kind as possible) when you see them being ignorant morans.

[grinch]

SxSs have fucked up access for a lot of user groups by being more capable, popular, entitled, destructive, etc. than all the others put together. Ebikes run the risk of doing the same things to the non-motorized crowd. It is too bad, because they could be an ally to the rest of the non motorized crowd, but unfortunately their popularity and capabilities pretty much guarantee that they will cause things to get worse before they get bettter.

Says the guy who thinks emtb's are closer to a motoX than a mtb

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