50 years to the day

[Cono Este]

It sucks when someone destroys what you helped build.

The Obama legacy is finally dead.

[Cono Este]

It sucks when someone destroys what you helped build.

The Obama legacy is finally dead.

[JimmyCarter]

Cono “Kamala is gonna start WWIII you warhawks!!!” Este is still a batshit crazy bootlicker I see.

[warthog]

Diplomacy, up until now, has seemed to be drawing lines in the sand over and over as they are crossed.
I am not excited this had to happen, as I suspect many involved are not either, but it is nice to see that the lines not to be crossed mean something again.
I am not sure we will know what that means until later, but talking and promising hasn't gotten anything accomplished.

It is a sad reality that a show of strength and determination will go much further than feel good circle jerk talks.

[gravitylover]

I feel less safe now, in my own home and town, than I ever have before. How many cells will be activated around the country? How will they proceed, small targets and groups of people, gathering places like houses of worship from pretty much most religions, sports and entertainment events...? As a Jew I feel like I have a target on me more so than ever before

[riser4]

Im expecting cyber warfare like we've never seen it before

[gravitylover]

Yeah that too.

[JimmyCarter]

At least we have a highly qualified [emoji638][emoji638] year old grocery store clerk in charge of antiterrorism now, so that’s comforting

[Cono Este]

Carter says I’m batshit crazy. Yet he wants a forever war against a nation that already had 6500 nukes,

We wouldn’t have any problems if we didn’t have democrats.We wouldnt need ICE, there would be no reactor to bomb.

[riser4]

I have no doubt those people exist, but they are not the dominant force making that theology national primary policy.

Mike fucking Huckabee is the ambassador to Israel.

[JimmyCarter]

[emoji638]][emoji640][emoji639]][emoji638][emoji638][emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji639]][emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]]]Carter says I’m batshit crazy. Yet he wants a forever war against a nation that already had [emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]]] nukes,

We wouldn’t have any problems if we didn’t have democrats.We wouldnt need ICE, there would be no reactor to bomb.

You really are the most useful idiot this side of Trump aren’t you?

[Bunion 2020]

THE SUSPECT IN THE MINNESOTA MURDERS, Vance Luther Boelter, has been charged, for now, with second degree murder. He allegedly killed two people, Melissa and Mark Hortman, in cold blood, and shot and wounded two others.

According to Minnesota police, he showed up at the homes of at least two other people who were on his 45-person hit list (they were away). In these situations, one expects to hear that the shooter was in the midst of a psychotic episode, isolated from family and alienated from friends.

We may yet learn that Boelter had some such challenges (there are rumors of financial troubles), but he did not appear disabled by delusions. He fitted out his vehicle to resemble a police car and masqueraded as a cop. Unlike most people in the throes of florid psychosis, he had been holding down a job. Nor was he a loner. He was a married father of five and owner of a large and valuable home. He was not friendless. His lifelong friend, David Carlson, choked up when reading Boelter’s last texts.

No, what stands out about the descriptions of Boelter we’ve seen thus far is that everyone agreed he was “deeply religious.” In other words, he appears to be a religious extremist. He was also reportedly an ardent Trump fan. Those things are obviously related, but they also underscore how much the world has flipped in just ten years.

Quote Originally Posted by summit View Post I have no doubt those people exist, but they are not the dominant force making that theology national primary policy. Not yet anyway....

[JimmyCarter]

[emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]]][emoji638][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]]];[emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji639]][emoji638][emoji638][emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]][emoji637]]Quote Originally Posted by summit View Post [COLOR=#ff[emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]]]]I have no doubt those people exist, but they are not the dominant force making that theology national primary policy.[/COLOR] Not yet anyway....

Performative or otherwise
“I want to just thank everybody, in particular, God. I want to just say we love you God, and we love our great military, protect them. God bless the Middle East, God bless Israel, and God bless America.“

[Bunion 2020]

2015:
The Great Iraq Mistake

The GOP now agrees that the Iraq War was a bad decision, but the way forward is far from clear.
That's the consensus now even among Republicans, whose presidential candidates in recent days have largely fallen in line behind Jeb Bush and denounced the 2003 invasion initiated by his brother. After first telling Fox News this month he "would have" invaded Iraq, Bush subtly changed his answer three days later, saying in a subsequent interview he would not but couching the reversal in a qualifier that blamed the decision-making on a failure of accurate intelligence.

It was a watershed moment. Sen. Marco Rubio of Florida, Gov. Scott Walker of Wisconsin, Gov. Chris Christie of New Jersey, Sen. Ted Cruz of Texas and other GOP candidates have now also repudiated the decision to go to war – usually prefacing their condemnation with some form of the phrase, "if we knew then what we know now," while keeping intact avenues for criticism about the prosecution of the campaign since Democratic President Barack Obama took office.

Only took 10 years.

[Bunion 2020]

Aug. 17, 2002 12 AM PT TIMES STAFF WRITER CRAWFORD, Texas — President Bush responded Friday to the increasingly contentious debate among Republicans over what course he should follow regarding Iraq, acknowledging the growing opposition to a military campaign to remove President Saddam Hussein from power.
The dissent spread this week when Brent Scowcroft, the White House national security advisor during the administration of Bush’s father, warned that an attack on Hussein could jeopardize the war on terrorism by angering allies whose support is critical.

Several former officials close to Scowcroft said they doubted he would have gone public with that posture without clearing the move first with the senior Bush, heightening questions about the latter’s view on confronting Iraq. The former president has not commented publicly, which has only fed speculation.

But this time is different...........

[summit]

Oh I think the religious psychos are scary no matter what faith they follow, Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Mormons, other cults, even Hindu. They must be opposed, confronted, and stopped from degrading religious freedom and secular society.

But if you are trying to convince me that a lone wolf terrorist doing what xian fundie fuckfaces have been doing for decades, or an appointed ambassador being nutso, is a step away from a dictatorship swearing fealty to the Pope and declaring the 9th crusade or being a mirror of Iran, GMAFB. It is just not comparable to the situation in Iran, not even possible to say we are close, we are so far from that. Not to say we must stop being vigilant and fighting hard here at home, but the entire conversation is a nonsequitor in this thread imho.

[Bunion 2020]

Dude, nothing will convince you or MV that force and violence are the only methods that yield results.

[summit]

14 MOPs and 60 TLAMs - per CJCS BDA still pending. That is the big big big question... IAEA, the UN agency who declared Iran's program was no longer peaceful immediately before this whole thing kicked off, said no radiation released to the external world at Fordo from wherever they have their monitoring equipment, but then UF6 is 4x denser than air and reacts like crazy.

So far, Iran has responded with angry words and threats, some GPS jamming in Hormuz, and 27 ballistic missiles & 30 drones fired into Israeli cities destroying many buildings and injuring 86 civilians.

That is a tragic result for Israeli civilians, but for Iran it shows how disabled their capability is at this point.

The US is in touch with Iran offering peace and ceasefire.

I guess what I am confused as fuck by is this: we have repeatedly done one-off disarming strikes against many terrorist regimes over the years that have been just that and not more. They are almost too many to list and every president has done them, 130 reports, from the WPR's inception in 1973. So why is this one, which is the clearest damned justification against the clearest foe, the prevention of a terrorist nuclear state, so controversial? I'd say 3 reasons:
1. Russian/Iranian IO are attempting to dominate isolationist restoring in the MAGA camp.
2. Trump is a fucking Narcissistic cancer who is grossly abusing his executive power, even if this case was not that, and so a default reaction from left politicians to oppose anything even when the stuck clock is right.
3. Same kneejerk from politicians who are angry with or don't like Israel: if Israel is involved right or wrong, take the opposite position of Israel.

Israel recovered the bodies of 3 hostages killed by Hamas.

[summit]

Bunion: I've studied war more than most people who haven't been in it. It's horrible and to be avoided. Peace is prosperity. But peace at any price is a recipe for miseries worse than war. There are times where an adversary makes peace impossible.

Biden had 4 years to get Iran into a real peace deal. Trump tried as well for 5 months. Iran has been giving orders to fire missiles and drones at US civilian and military ships and bases, and they refused to reach a deal and then were found by IAEA pursing a weapon nd on the verge of making a nuke.

It's a shitty situation. What could be worse than highly targeted strikes against a nuclear weapons program? Iran with nukes. Even in all the objections and complaints, no reasonable person outside of an obligate pacifist disputes this point no matter what level of of patience they have for peace before violence.

My regrets on the situation given that peaceful resolution proved impossible are: any innocents hurt and any political boon to the fucktard in chief.

[MultiVerse]

What alternative does Bunion imagine would "yield results"? And why does Bunion keep bringing up Iraq? Does he imagine the United States is going to invade Iran with boots on the ground?

Iran has been at war with the United States for 50 years. The Mullah regime murdered thousands of American citizens. Its mantra is “death to America.“ That's not an empty slogan but a core ideology. The regime was racing toward a nuclear weapon having every intention of using it to threaten America, American allies, and the entire Middle East region.

The weird thing about the domestic politics is that preventing countries like Iran from building nuclear weapons was once majority view inside the Democratic Party.

[jono]

If "this was not that" can you draw the line to show how unilateral bombing by executive order absent a clear and present danger of an attack on the US is constitutional?

This might turn out to be a good move strategically, or not. There will be geopolitical pros and cons in the long run. But ignoring congress--a friendly congress strongly inclined to strengthen his negotiating position--is a feature that furthers his efforts to normalize autocracy.

[MultiVerse]

On the bright side, Jono has switched away from parroting hostile regime's paper-thin justifications to constitutional scholar

[Bunion 2020]

^^^ well said Jono.

@MV, OK we had a success, little Marco just said so while losing his shit on air. And when Iran hits back, what then?

Right now we are backing a regime into a corner where to capitulate means they are gone and perhaps not pleasantly.

Another carrier strike group is heading to the ME. And why keep bringing up Iraq? You are right, this could end much worse.

[MultiVerse]

Well said? You guys are throwing word salads against the wall hoping something sticks. Maybe take a step back and enjoy rather than join Cucker Carlsons’ breakdowns

[summit]

jono: I get your point, but I ask again how this was different Biden's or Trump's or Obama's drone strikes? Trump's cruise missile attacks in response to Assad's use of chemical weapons on his own people, not the US? Or Clinton blowing up a chemical factory in Sudan? I could go on for paaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaages.

A sworn enemy, that is engaged in ongoing hostilities and terrorism against the US and US interests, imminently getting nuclear weapon... how is that not a clear an present danger?

bunion: when you say Iran is backed into a corner, there were so many offramps available for them, actions they didn't have to take. Iran has agency in this whole affair. In fact, they are the primary driver of the hostilities and threats. Everyone has been reacting to Iran's moves, to the corners Iran has backed everyone else into through their terrorism, aggression, and nuclear weapons program. So I'd ask you: what do you propose?