Ukraine

[MultiVerse]

Rod still spewing disinfo about a nonexistent "peace deal" when in reality Putin effectively demanded Ukraine unconditionally surrender by disarming. Ukraine went on to repatriate more than half of the territory unlawfully occupied by Russia at the time. That's the part Putin supporters always leave out when they say Ukraine can't take back territory stolen by Russia

[RTsucks]

Let us all just remember that peace is not Trump's favorite word. Its just one he throws out there as bait for the fools.

"Armies don't run on logistics, they run on real estate deals" - cono este

[summit]

Russia's "peace deal" terms:

Russia keeps current occupied land.
Russia gets its frozen assets back.
Ukraine withdraws from Russian occupied land.
Ukranian army limited to 85K troops with only 342 tanks.
Ukraine cannot have advanced weapons, maximum missile range just 25 miles.
Ukraine cannot join NATO or any other alliance or security guarantee.
No foreign peacekeepers or other troops in Ukraine.

Russia requires Ukraine to surrender without any concession, disarm with zero security guarantees, and then be invaded again more completely in short order.

[bennymac]

Zelensky is delusional. He offered to resign of Ukraine joins nato. Which everyone knows it's not in the cards.
NATO said so, Trump said so.

And eu criticized Trump for agreeing immediately that Ukraine will never join NATO and the territory that Russia occupied will not go back to Ukraine.

When everyone knows that this will never happen. And regardless what i or everyone else thinks of Trump, he was a real estate guy. He knows how to negotiate. He could never get Russia to the table if he insisted on Ukraine joining NATO.

It's a shame the over a million people died since 2022, when a peace accord was almost signed, before Biden and Johnson convinced zelensky to keep fighting.

2 years of fighting and the peace will have the same terms as on 2022. Nothing accomplished except more people died.

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“Blame the victim” is such a good look for you.

[irul&ublo]

The Russians will back down in the face of American and NATO resolve. Trump is a fucking traitor


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[jono]

Reality: Trump wants to use carrots and sticks to bring 2 parties to the table. The carrot for Russia is promising to force Ukraine's acceptance of their terms. But there is nothing to offer Ukraine in exchange for their non-existence, so there is no carrot and the stick is not worse than the existential threat they already face. So he has no leverage against Ukraine at all and no carrot for Russia, only a stick (support for Ukraine and sanctions).

rod and the tankies' delusions change nothing. In order for Trump to do anything in 24 years he needs to find something Ukraine wants (security guarantees) and make Russia accept it. Otherwise he's irrelevant.

[ötzi]

Let's hope it's not 24 years!

[rod9301]

Actually, all us has to do is cut military assistance and Ukraine will collapse. So Trump has a big stick

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[jono]

Ukraine's original plan was to resist with AK47s and Molotov cocktails. Now the Ghost of Kyiv and his 3 friends are flying F16s armed with current generation Sidewinders, HARMs, and AIM-120's. And they're producing their drone swarms domestically.

Ukraine has the option to fight or be killed. Russia has shown no mercy to occupied cities, so there is no reason for them to lay down their arms regardless of promises or threats. It's not the first time Moscow attempted genocide.

Strong security guarantees, debilitate Russia until they can't continue, or fight on.

Russia has lost wars to Chechnya and Afghanistan. And when you find Syria on that map on the last page please tell me what color you see.

Logistical donkeys and burning refineries. Spend your dividends now!

[MultiVerse]

The UN has adopted Ukraine’s resolution condemning Russian aggression and demanding the immediate withdrawal of Putin’s forces, marking the war’s third anniversary. The U.S. joined Russia, North Korea, Belarus, and Hungary in opposing the resolution.

“I was deeply troubled by the vote at the UN today, which put us on the same side as Russia and North Korea. These are not our friends. This posture is a dramatic shift from American ideals of freedom and democracy. We all want an end to the war, but it must be achieved on terms that ensure Ukraine’s sovereignty and security and that deter Putin from pursuing further territorial ambitions.”

-- Utah Republican Senator John Curtis

[bennymac]

Actually, all us has to do is cut military assistance and Ukraine will collapse. So Trump has a big stick

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Something for you to think about once those sweet investing profits start coming in for you. Hope it’s worth it.

[Meconium]

I think today's vote will "end" up being a good thing for America (domestically) Not so good for trump internationally and domestically. Support for Ukraine is back on the "map". I don't know if the freek out Europe to make them pay up strategy is sincere. If Trump doesn't flip back, he is done one way or another.

[summit]

Russia has never been our friend.

Russia is and has been our enemy for the last 108 years.

Yes there was 4 years where they were the enemy of our enemy... but still our enemy.

I'm disgusted by people who would cowtow to that degenerate, authoritarian, aggressor nation of socialist alcoholics. I'm disgusted by whataboutists and false equivocators. They are Stalin/Putin's useful idiots.

USA! USA! The USA is the best country that has ever existed. Trump, our President, is supposed to be the Leader of the Free World, not the American Neville Chamberlin or a real-life Manchurian candidate. I hope he knows what he is doing, but if what he intends is to sell out a sovereign country to the nascent neo-Soviets instead of strangling that zombie Evil Empire in it's crib, then he doesn't know what he has wrought.

[jackstraw]

I hope he knows what he is doing, but if what he intends is to sell out a sovereign country to the nascent neo-Soviets instead of strangling that zombie Evil Empire in it's crib, then he doesn't know what he has wrought.

He thinks he's much smarter than he is because he's truly conned millions of people into voting for him. I give him credit for that, but that gives him a false sense of a superiority amongst world leaders...along with waving our flag which has a natural air of superiority. He's just not that bright and thinks he can bully and con his way through negotiations. That does not work with critical thinkers.

[Cono Este]

This is still a very dangerous situation.

Ukraine has been buckling the last few months, NOTHING that was done, sent,or paid for the last 12 months has stopped that.

So we either get a cease fire or what? Double down?

Anyome who,thinks staying on the same path Ukraine has been on, with restrictions on Weapons, manpower exhausted, is risking ALL of Ukraine.

And the big babies in here, who can’t see that, won’t admit it, and spewing insults, are on another level of asshole.

[Bunion 2020]

Yes, you take it up a level every day.

[MultiVerse]

Ukraine has the biggest and best fighting force in Europe. Most of Ukraine is still free. Ukraine is still a democracy, and will join the European Union. Ukraine will never be vassal to Russia. The cost was high. But withstanding everything the Russian military could muster with decades of Soviet stockpiled weapons—more than 10,000 Russian tanks destroyed—is a massive achievement.

Ukraine is not buckling, Russia is. Without Trump's rescue Putin is toast. Ukraine will never surrender. Slava Ukraini!

[Cono Este]

We will see how it ends, like I said still a very dangerous situation, and reading multiverse crazy post makes me suspicious who would be the real risk to a lasting peace.

Snatching 500 billion from the same land putin is aiming for pretty much debunks all the sick, twisted bullshit spewn in here about Manchurian candidates.


Multi verse, I wouldn’t let you lead my sons call of duty team.

[MultiVerse]

Thanks to brave Ukrainians, factory reject dildos like Cono are fortunate they can be a cowards in a time & place where it doesn't really matter

[summit]

"Buckling for months" uh huh... ok.

[Dantheman]

Russia has never been our friend.

Russia is and has been our enemy for the last 108 years.

Yes there was 4 years where they were the enemy of our enemy... but still our enemy.

I'm disgusted by people who would cowtow to that degenerate, authoritarian, aggressor nation of socialist alcoholics. I'm disgusted by whataboutists and false equivocators. They are Stalin/Putin's useful idiots.

USA! USA! The USA is the best country that has ever existed. Trump, our President, is supposed to be the Leader of the Free World, not the American Neville Chamberlin or a real-life Manchurian candidate. I hope he knows what he is doing, but if what he intends is to sell out a sovereign country to the nascent neo-Soviets instead of strangling that zombie Evil Empire in it's crib, then he doesn't know what he has wrought.

Preach

[summit]

You could argue the US and Russia were adversaries back farther before 1917 all the way to 1880s as we did not approve of the Russian pogroms and absorbed 3+ million Jewish refugees from the Empire, then we tacitly supported the Japanese in their absolute asskicking of Russia beacuse they were inevitably going to fight, but we wanted them to counterbalance so each would have less ability to imperially dominate China, then we played peacemaker. We continued to oppose Russia (and Japan) in their imperialist expansionism into China (Manchuria).

Before the 1880s you could only describe the relationship as cordial neglect based on the USA's irrelevance to Russian continental imperialist ambitions.

[dan_pdx]

It's always weird interacting with people who are living in a different reality. If you have a policy disagreement like I think it's a good idea to make Russia a foil to China and you don't, you can talk about it. If someone keeps insisting that two plus two equals five or six or seven, (depending on the day and what they last heard on) it makes it very hard to engage. It's like when you see someone in the grocery store taking off their clothes and yelling about snakes, you just turn around and walk away

[mcski]

^ for sure. I have an old high school acquaintance that I used to be stoner buddies w in high school that has become a full on Elon /maga fan boy. He’s not a dumb guy but has fully drank the Elon kool aide and insists he’s right about everything despite clearly objective facts that show it’s not just untrue but insane. His main responses when the bullshit gets called out are either laughing emojis or saying i have TDS. It’s full cult time. He also loves to say he only is interested in the truth. It’s 1984 time

The guy yelling about snakes has more credibility. At least he fully believes for his own sake. These types have a inane mixture of belief and commitment to the trolls so they can own the libs.

It was nice to see a Ukraine flag flying today in London next to the Union Jack on a government building

[Cono Este]

705 pages of lies, fear mongering, slander, and death.

Now we’re seeing new options, an interest in people talking.

Wosuld be nice to know what the average Ukrainian man, woman etc felt, and not just dead Enders like multi. Erse

Multi can Intrest you in the Congo? Always a way there.