Bindings & DINS for Freeride Comps for Kids

[Shredeagle]

Hey all,

My older kid is pretty into freeride comps. Feeling a bit like I blew the last one for him by not having the proper binding set up.

He is 15 - 5'7" and about 140. He has the Rasta pivot bindings. He goes big.

What does everyone think is the best binding for this kind of thing? I feel like the Pivots are good here.

How about DIN setting? Recommended for him is 8. I'm thinking of going down a line on the and height and weight on the chart and going to 10.

I value his knees highly and don't want to just "turn them to 18." Most of these comps aren't in very exposed terrain, so I'm not overly worried about him losing a ski and taking a long fall over rocks. I feel like learning good inspections (good takeoffs and landings) and good 4 point landings is better than just cranking up the bindings.

What are other's doing here?

Thanks!

[toast2266]

Is he blowing out of them at 8?

[t-the-east]

Looks like the recommended is six point five for his age/height/weight?

If he’s coming out at eight, maybe check the forward pressure or have a shop do it

[Shredeagle]

Yes - blew them out at 8. The air was probably 25 feet down and 60 feet out to softishpack. Landed cross court with weight too far uphill and a bit back. Downhill ski touched down second and I think that his weight being a bit back made it release basically on impact. So could be forward pressure. Literally just had the bindings adjusted at the shop earlier in the week to new boots. So I’ll just have them double check.

I just figured 8 was recommended since that is what shop put them at.

Felt bad cuz he skied it out on one ski so would have been fine if binder stayed in.

Don’t want to be the guy that cranks them up and it cost him a knee. So wondering if peeps thought 10 was too much and just how everyone approaches this in general.


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[halliday]

Shops will rely on the FPI for liability reasons but just because the FPI lines up is it actually doing its job? It's too bad the best binding in the world is the way it is as far as dialing in correct forward pressure. Ive had lots of Pivots work just fine with the FPI and others not so much. Good luck.

[dcpnz]

I don't know sh!t about freeride comps but I suspect most of his peers are on pivots as well
As for DIN - if he's throwing airs as big as you suggest then the DIN chart is pretty much useless
Talk to his coaches maybe??

In the race world we tend to crank them up till they no longer fall off when you don't want them to - for my kid that meant a couple of DNF's at 11/12 and now running tech at 13/14 and speed at 15 - if I remember I will wind them down for training though and put back up for races.

[DarthMarkus]

Hey all,

My older kid is pretty into freeride comps. Feeling a bit like I blew the last one for him by not having the proper binding set up.

He is 15 - 5'7" and about 140. He has the Rasta pivot bindings. He goes big.

What does everyone think is the best binding for this kind of thing? I feel like the Pivots are good here.

How about DIN setting? Recommended for him is 8. I'm thinking of going down a line on the and height and weight on the chart and going to 10.

I value his knees highly and don't want to just "turn them to 18." Most of these comps aren't in very exposed terrain, so I'm not overly worried about him losing a ski and taking a long fall over rocks. I feel like learning good inspections (good takeoffs and landings) and good 4 point landings is better than just cranking up the bindings.

What are other's doing here?

Thanks!

General consensus among adult athletes is to usually crank your ISO in a comp. IMO, it's a balance between the risk of non-release inflicting a knee injury vs. kicking a ski off being more hazardous in dicey terrain. I've thankfully never been in that position, but I watched a fair number of fellow competitors kick off a marker binding in exactly the worst place possible.

It's a thing that the skier ultimately needs to decide. I think the best scenario is that a youth athlete focuses on 4-point landings moreso than cranking DINs. They'll score better from judges and the risk will be lower. The youth judges generally score safety measures higher than the adult comps.

All that being said, an 8 or a 10 means nothing without the height, weight, and BSL of the skier. An 11 is not the same between a 305 and 335 BSL. My experience has been that pivots generally allow me to get away with a lower ISO on my heels. I'm usually 1 ISO higher on my heel than my toe with pivots, about 2 with any other brand. It's worth noting that there's an additional option for 3+ on any shop paperwork for an additional move higher in the chart; 4 different levels of aggression, but you have to write in the "+" next to type 3.

If I were you, I'd check the forward pressure first, the soles of the boot>binding integration second, then address any DIN discrepancy after - cautiously.

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[Djongo Unchained]

Both you and your kid need to become much more aware of how his clamps work. If he's gonna compete, you both wanna be very familiar with the release timing. Don't leave it up to the random shop guy. Forward pressure, 3+, BSL, etc., all count when refining the release. You can figure out a range of release by small increments up the DIN scale. High din releases are usually a fast, sharp impact, more than a slow, straining pull. You can ballpark a higher setting without worrying too much about endangering him. Going from 8 to 10 for a comp guy is a pretty easy yes.I'd posit that 80% of skiers are trying to get out of their skis in a wreck. The other 20% are trying to stay in. The chart # is a good starting point to figure out the endpoint.

[Shredeagle]

This is great. Thanks for taking the time all. His BSL is 298

I knew this wasn’t a black/white thing so I really appreciate the discussion and giving us good ways to think about this.


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[toast2266]

This is perhaps a dangerous generalization, but I feel like any healthy male who skis a lot and has "skier's legs" will be fine with their DIN at 10. Fine meaning the binding's retention isn't going to destroy their knee during a release. Some people will obviously need it higher.

This is maybe less applicable for people who are exceptionally short or light. And it definitely becomes less true as people get older. Not sure how it applies to a 15 year old; probably kinda depends where he's at in the growth process.

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[ego7man]

At [emoji637][emoji640][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]]]lbs I would turn them up to [emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]] in the toes and [emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]].[emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]] in the heels. I have found that I can safely run a lower din number on pivots because they flex with the ski and don’t have the dead spot that every other binding has. I feel more confident about not pre-releasing in a pivot at [emoji637][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]]] than a STH at [emoji637][emoji639]


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[ego7man]

At [emoji637][emoji640][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]]]lbs I would turn them up to [emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]] in the toes and [emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]].[emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]] in the heels. I have found that I can safely run a lower din number on pivots because they flex with the ski and don’t have the dead spot that every other binding has. I feel more confident about not pre-releasing in a pivot at [emoji637][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]]] than a STH at [emoji637][emoji639]


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At his weight I would try nine in the toes and nine and a half in the heels. The pivot flexes with the ski and just doesn’t pre-release the way every other binding with a “dead spot” in the heel plate does. I feel more confident in a pivot at ten than a STH at Thirteen .




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[Climber Joe]

I ski pivots exclusively, and always use the pop-in vs pop-out method for checking the forward pressure. If they’re mounted for the exact boot being skied, it usually lines up with the FPI.

I am 5’9” and 170, and am a full time instructor. I’ve been skiing with my dins at 8-9 depending on the ski, and I don’t think I’ve had a single release that shouldn’t have happened. I use the same ski for teaching and training most of the time, and I push them pretty hard during training.

The only times I’ve lost skis this year, is when I’ve pushed my skis or balance past their functional limit, and if it hadn’t come off, I might have been injured.

Landing backseat/side hill is a perfect recipe for a release, but also a knee injury.

Think of your DIN setting as your “knee torque” setting.


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[MTslackcountry]

5'9 180 here. I have run pivots for 25 years. 10.5 toe 11 heel. Agreesive ex racer. Never lose a ski. When the boot is in the ski stand on the ski and pull up on the boot. The heel should not move much. If the heel is moving and the brakes are moving excessivley then you need more forward pressure. The forward pressure line on these bindings is not very accurate. If that was my kid based on what your saying I would put toes at 9 and heel at 10.

[LC]

crank them up till they no longer fall off when you don't want them to

This. If you don't set them higher then he's going to do it himself. Might as well teach him how to do it sensibly.

[Shredeagle]

LC - that sounds like the best advice yet!

[tenB]

I would check in with his coaches maybe a good ski tech and some dads of kids with similar size/abilities. The more info the better in making a good decision. I wouldn’t fuck around just cranking them up to find out.

Also, the fall you described with a cross court uphill land has potentially big consequences. I say the bindings did their job. Live to ski and compete another day, and then land cleaner. At 140 lbs, I’d be hesitant to wind up beyond 9, something will give

[grskier]

To echo some sentiments here.

8 is probably fine, sounds like that landing wasn't of the 4 point variety. Bindings are supposed to release.

If you go up from there, think about it in terms of %. Going up to 9 is more than a 10% increase.
That said, I know kids his age riding in the 9+. But he's still pretty light.