BOA Love & Hate

[TAFKALVS]

Shifts + black crows + arcteryx + boa boots + ikon pass & crystal mountain sticker + terminal intermediate skiing ability seem to be the combo I’m seeing a lot

[halliday]

Shifts + black crows + arcteryx + boa boots + ikon pass & crystal mountain sticker + terminal intermediate skiing ability seem to be the combo I’m seeing a lot

That's the target market for BOA closure systems.

[Mofro261]

Oh Noa, mo boa.

I used Boa in K2 Transformer snowboard boots 25?yrs ago, fit was OK but yes some fiddle with the dial. Hmm I haven't been back on a board since 2005ish now, but not because of boa.

[GoldenBC]

BOA is really nice to have on my road bike shoes +1. I had BOA on my wading boots and went back to laces. Ive skied BOA ski boots and like buckles way more. If shops bought 70% BOA boots and then 90% the following year with really strong sales then that is a good thing. If the masses of skiers who are replacing their boots are buying BOA because it is the most available (90% of boots on the shelf) and it is what the shops are pushing then that will be the largest selling item. It's like rear entry boots. They were everywhere and are very comfortable but they came and went and are around again to a varying degree but they came and went. I believe this will be the case with BOA ski boots.

This is the important thing to remember. Sales stats are really not relevant to what works the best for people. It’s based on what is available, marketing, bootfitter or not, etc. buyers go in on boa the first year to see what’s up and of course the numbers are skewed from then on.

[Sessiøn]

Anyone peep Gunderson’s FB!!

Lots of BOA hate!!

I did. Also my bootfitter is on the thread disagreeing.

[tompietrowski]

This is the important thing to remember. Sales stats are really not relevant to what works the best for people. It’s based on what is available, marketing, bootfitter or not, etc. buyers go in on boa the first year to see what’s up and of course the numbers are skewed from then on.

Year 1 is when a product is tested if sell through is good then of course they will buy more of what is working the second year. If a product does not sell then a retailer reacts and changes course but we are not seeing that happen.

[SkiLyft]

^^ Goldens point is still valid here.

Year [emoji637] sell through doesn’t not indicate what is BEST for people. It’s showing marketing hype, people’s trust in their boot fitter based on what they were told from the rep, early adopters, and likely a bit of hope for a better mousetrap.

As people ski these boots over the first year I’d look at year [emoji638]-[emoji639] sales volumes to truly infer what’s “working” vs what’s hype.

[TAFKALVS]

Most of the people I’ve talked to with BOA seem to like them but are in a “comfort fit” and when I asked about buckling/unbuckling etc they looked at me strangely. I suspect that it is a much much better for option if someone is running a larger fit. I’m not 100% convinced on it for a race fit. But I’m pretty open minded to trying it. I want to believe.

[XXX-er]

You must be ^^ a republican ?

[GoldMember]

^^ When Lange puts them out there in a top boot, I'll probably try them but until then, there's no point. I'm really happy with the RX130 and have a pair of Shadows on the way.

[tompietrowski]

^^ Goldens point is still valid here.

Year [emoji637] sell through doesn’t not indicate what is BEST for people. It’s showing marketing hype, people’s trust in their boot fitter based on what they were told from the rep, early adopters, and likely a bit of hope for a better mousetrap.

As people ski these boots over the first year I’d look at year [emoji638]-[emoji639] sales volumes to truly infer what’s “working” vs what’s hype.

Exactly we are into year three buy now and we are seeing no slow down in the slightest. Maybe it will come in a few more years but honestly I just don’t see it.

[GoldenBC]

Year 2 and 3 sales are irrelevant. Take Hawx Ultra xtd for example. We didn't have the option for no boa. The stats are always skewed. Also, when it comes down to it, bootfitters are going to sell what they have. As in, If that's the only boot on the shelf, its probably going on to the persons foot. I'd be curious to see sales numbers through out the year to see which go first if there was actually a choice (which there wasn't) and you'd have to control for different demographics coming through different times of the year.

The notable thing is the impetus for boa. It wasn't a natural evolution. It wasn't people looking to solve a problem. It was a large, well funded company looking to push into the industry. I'd love to hear about incentives to manufacturers and pricing vs buckles or other financial influences. It was a manipulated market for sure.

Personally, I feel like boa is more effective for super precise fits where you basically don't need to do anything up or god awful loose fits where they don't look for any retention. It does not allow for a controlled change of the shape of the boot.

[2FUNKY]

Most of the people I’ve talked to with BOA seem to like them but are in a “comfort fit” and when I asked about buckling/unbuckling etc they looked at me strangely. I suspect that it is a much much better for option if someone is running a larger fit. I’m not convinced on it for a race fit. But I’m pretty open minded to trying it. I want to believe.

As you know I’m in the Fischer RCfour pro one forty pro BOA. My fit is very snug and not what some would call comfort. They are nice comfort wise for a ski boot as I am more performance minded, hence why I wanted a one forty flex and like to drive big stiff skis so powerful precision is a must for me. I represent nothing of your above demographic, though hilarious!!
I was very skeptical of lower BOA but after having 30ish days in them I am very pleased with their fit, duty and performance.
I am very open to new tech until it shows me otherwise. Threads like these remind me of the shape ski and fat ski introduction.
Not sure about upper cuff boa but I doubt I’ll get to try it as that’s a tough thing to do for boots, at least on hill. I was willing to take a chance on lower boa as that area is less impacted by boa.



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[2FUNKY]

[emoji638]][emoji640][emoji639]][emoji637][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji639]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji638][emoji637]]Exactly we are into year three buy now and we are seeing no slow down in the slightest. Maybe it will come in a few more years but honestly I just don’t see it.

It’s funny how some seem to think this is a new this year tech and hasn’t established a track record.


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[tompietrowski]

Year 2 and 3 sales are irrelevant. Take Hawx Ultra xtd for example. We didn't have the option for no boa. The stats are always skewed. Also, when it comes down to it, bootfitters are going to sell what they have. As in, If that's the only boot on the shelf, its probably going on to the persons foot. I'd be curious to see sales numbers through out the year to see which go first if there was actually a choice (which there wasn't) and you'd have to control for different demographics coming through different times of the year.

The notable thing is the impetus for boa. It wasn't a natural evolution. It wasn't people looking to solve a problem. It was a large, well funded company looking to push into the industry. I'd love to hear about incentives to manufacturers and pricing vs buckles or other financial influences. It was a manipulated market for sure.

Personally, I feel like boa is more effective for super precise fits where you basically don't need to do anything up or god awful loose fits where they don't look for any retention. It does not allow for a controlled change of the shape of the boot.

Everyone always says boa wasn’t wanted but ski boots have never been comfortable. Businesses exist with the sole purpose of trying to fit them better for people. People have always wanted more comfortable boots. Boa offers this improvement in comfort for a lot of people. This is why it has taken off so quickly.

But as for sales if you look at the walls of most shops buckle boots still dominate the wall and boa boots are the minority. So there are many more buckle than boa options for customers to buy but sell through data is consistently showing boa out performing buckle. Now it may be down to hype but honestly 90% of skiers don’t know anything about products. They simple buy what feels best.

[Sessiøn]

Most of the people I’ve talked to with BOA seem to like them but are in a “comfort fit” and when I asked about buckling/unbuckling etc they looked at me strangely. I suspect that it is a much much better for option if someone is running a larger fit. I’m not 100% convinced on it for a race fit. But I’m pretty open minded to trying it. I want to believe.

Would you not think the amount of people that WANT to have to buckle and unbuckle their boots all day is a pitifully small number?

[twat]

If a customer wants comfort he will get comfort. If a customer wants performance he will get performance. If he wants to rub his boa lacing in his rich friends faces because it is the coolest thing to have! He wants it he will get it. Of corse the sales person will sell what is in stock and the most expensive product. If the sales person is not convinced about boa he will tend to sell Buckles!
But if I see boa I will smile!

[McDee]

Hold on, I seem to be missing something here. How many pairs if boots do you guys get through??! I've been in the same boot the last 10 years. If I buy a double BOA boot now, I'm more or less stuck with it for the next 5-10 years before I can make my ire fellt and buy a buckle boot again. That's not going to show up in any year 2-3 sales numbers.

[GoldMember]

Hold on, I seem to be missing something here. How many pairs if boots do you guys get through??!

N+1

[XXX-er]

new boot every year cuz the boots bought on-line didnt fit

repeat ^^ every year

[McDee]

N+1

Walked right into that one

[mff353]

How are BOA boots more comfortable? I can see easier to "buckle", more convenient, maybe easier, but how are they more comfortable than a 4 buckle option?

[mff353]

With every manufacturer jumping on the BOA bandwagon quicker than any other technology launch in history, it's not love vs hate, it's the only thing you be able to buy if you a recreational skier. I hope there isn't a BOA lawsuit that will send the industry in a death spiral.

[frorider]

I think the most salient comment so far has been the comparison to laces. I have a quiver of mtb shoes, quite a few of them with boa & overall all of those have been fantastic (much more durable than Velcro obviously, which always wears out) and especially on a stiff XC shoe they let me dial in a snug yet comfortable fit. But a shoe upper is inherently flexible, and benefits naturally from multi attachment points (laces or boa) as a result. And on a beefier / taller shoe they still tend to have an ankle strap/buckle that really locks in heel hold.

The lightweight Boa common in AT boots (in my case F1s and Skorpius IIs currently) has worked well for me mostly because the rearward attachment points have been far enough back that I can easily get it dialed in (heh) for zero heel lift on the uphill. Meanwhile, I have several pairs of buckled AT boots that don’t quite accomplish this basic feat because they’ve tried to get away with one buckle (Z or otherwise) on the clog. My 2025 ZGPTs have been fine in this regard mostly due to the correctly narrow heel pocket. Anyway, an AT boot with relatively pliable clog shell (eg Skorps) is a good fit (heh) for a Boa application. The shell stiffness doesn’t really fight the Boa, so it’s almost like lacing up a hiking boot just faster and more secure. And notice that the AT boot industry has had it for years but never fucked around with Boa on the cuff.

For any of my stiffer clog boots I’m not sure Boa is necessary or advantageous from that ^ engineering perspective. From what I’ve seen the Alpine Boa wheel had to be made much larger than that on an mtb shoe or soft AT boot, in order to give the hand enough leverage. That has made the dial placement more challenging & much less low profile as a result. I’m sure I could replace it in the field but honestly I’d just throw on two Voile straps and finish the day. Btw this is yet another argument against upper cuff boa.

A cautionary tale—the auto industry makes hudge R&D investments and so the marketing research can be crucial to getting that right. Yet somehow the industry fucked up mightily and convinced themselves full flatscreen controls were the future. Backlash was consistent in the field, and in the last 2 yrs many companies have introduced knobs for key controls. Yet throughout those years there were highly paid marketing execs waving around data ‘proving’ 100% touchscreen was what the market wanted.

I’m not a Boa or flatscreen controls hater—at least in the right applications—but I chuckle a bit when I see a marketing narrative that is self reinforcing to the point that market choice goes away.

[Sessiøn]

How are BOA boots more comfortable? I can see easier to "buckle", more convenient, maybe easier, but how are they more comfortable than a 4 buckle option?

This is my question as well. If we could have had not one but two product managers explain it to us in multiple threads over the past year it could have been real helpful.