PARK CITY (and all) SKI PATROLLERS DESERVE MORE.

[Canada1]

One of my family members worked for a bit as a ticket booth person. She was always amazed at the number of people who became very angry at the ticket prices. Alot of people get on planes without thinking about that part of the equation. I want every employee on that mountain to to get a fair wage. The patrollers deserve more. Vail doesn't give one thing to this community. They just want to take, and then take some more.

It would be interesting to see what an EMT driving an ambulance makes versus these guys. I've never been taken off for an injury, but would like to think the guys throwing the bombs and responding to the injured people are of more value than the red jacket managers all over the mountain. I know they are to me.

[summit]

The patrollers deserve more.

Again people think that people should get what they deserve based on whatever socially laudible criteria people emote on... and that isn't how the world works. People get what they are willing to work for vs employers paying what they can get people to work for. It's a bitch. Supply of workforce at a given wage vs the industry demand for work vs barriers to entry determines if the wage goes up or down, plus/minus union shenanigans vs employer shenanigans.

It would be interesting to see what an EMT driving an ambulance makes versus these guys.

Ambulance EMTs working for private companies probably make 25% less than patrollers. Even an FDNY EMT (not a FF) makes under $20/hr.

Ambulance EMT is not regarded as a career. It's widely regarded as a stepping stone job that one works for a year or two...

[zion zig zag]

Again people think that people should get what they deserve based on whatever socially laudible criteria people emote on... and that isn't how the world works. People get what they are willing to work for vs employers paying what they can get people to work for. It's a bitch. Supply of workforce at a given wage vs the industry demand for work vs barriers to entry determines if the wage goes up or down, plus/minus union shenanigans vs employer shenanigans.



Ambulance EMTs working for private companies probably make 25% less than patrollers. Even an FDNY EMT (not a FF) makes under $20/hr.

Ambulance EMT is not regarded as a career. It's widely regarded as a stepping stone job that one works for a year or two...

Gold Cross is the only private ambulance company in the area and they start at $18 an hour. They do not have the license to operate in Summit County. It should be noted that they are not first responders and if a patient has ALS needs then they are accompanied to the hospital by SLC FD. Not a great comparison to what patrollers do with regards of other duties and responsibilities.

Scene transports and inter-facilities in Summit County is handled by PCFD and they start at $59k a year for FF/EMT, $67k for FF/EMT-P.

[Kevo]

Legally, CB / Keystone / Breck patrols would not be able to strike in solidarity without effectively quitting their jobs. They are not in the same union. They all have active contracts with Vail that almost certainly have a no strike clause. The reason PC patrol is able to strike with job protections is because contract expired and negotiations for renewal has been unsuccessful.

Not saying I like it. But it's in the interest in patrol unions to play be Federal labor law.

Forcing people to work in a different state is a pretty serious change in working conditions, which would likely justify a strike, no?

[summit]

FDs have much higher bars to get over for hiring. Huge difference between an EMT on a private ambulance... and a public employee fire fighter who is paid with taxdollahz AND by billing patients (one of the biggest reasons FD chiefs were so motivated to take on EMS... wait we can collect taxes AND bill???). But, funnily enough, in most Fire/EMS agencies, ambulance is considered shit duty and a starting assignment. Promotions involve getting off the ambo and onto fire aparatus.

[stealurface831]

Fucking seriously people you bought a pass and want to now not ski at Vail Resorts for solidarity? If you already paid for your pass, then theoretically costs VR money each time you use it. Don't buy a $30 hamburger, great... but why were you going to do that anyway?

i bought my epic pass for the sole purpose of using it at PC. if only 20% of the mountain is open and scabs are 'trolling it by the time my trip rolls round, i'm gonna do what i gotta do to get my money back and take my jolly ass elsewhere. the solidarity aspect is entirely secondary. more than anything, i hope the union gets what they are asking for soon and i don't have to go through the pain in the ass of canceling my trip and getting my money back.

[summit]

^fair

[doebedoe]

Forcing people to work in a different state is a pretty serious change in working conditions, which would likely justify a strike, no?

The people being forced to work in a different state aren't in the unions. They are patrol leadership, mid-level management, which per regulations are not eligible to join the union and therefore aren't subject to it's protections.

[supermodel159]

Is this the result of the strike? I assume snow coverage is fine?

[stealurface831]

thats a bunch of lift ops folks sitting idle and losing hours.

[One (+) Sentence]

thats a bunch of lift ops folks sitting idle and losing hours.

Nah, pull ‘em up to the big leagues. They’re patrollers now…

[stealurface831]

Nah, pull ‘em up to the big leagues. They’re patrollers now…

wouldn't put it past em.

[bodywhomper]

[emoji638]][emoji640][emoji639]][emoji637][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji639]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]][emoji640][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji639]]]The people being forced to work in a different state aren't in the unions. They are patrol leadership, mid-level management, which per regulations are not eligible to join the union and therefore aren't subject to it's protections.

And some(?) are likely pro-union former non-management patrollers….

[Core Shot]

Just catching up on this thread. What a shit show.

Patrollers should be union.
Maybe lift maintenance as well.
These are skill sets and knowledge unique to each resort and critical to our safety.

Anyone doing control work should get hazard pay as well. Maybe control hours are 1.x times regular rate running rigs and moving padding ropes and signs.

Was curious if you can have a union non-union biz. Yep.
https://www.mccarter.com/insights/de...s-differently/
One link of many.
So yeah. Having only patrol be union is possible.

Lifties and fry cooks and ticket sellers and instructors are replaceable. And if they are short staffed by a strike no one is going to die. No union for them.

Would be nice to have more sympathy strikes. But these guys and gals are hard core skiers. They wouldn’t want to shut down all our fun just when the season is getting started.

Hopefully they get the pc shitshow resolved. And then maybe NSP can work in the off season to start getting unions going where the existing patrollers want them


Edit. Seemed to me they weren’t union from reading this thread. I guess they are already.
https://www.powder.com/news/ski-patr...er-to-vail-ceo

All the more reason that vail sucks
They have agreed to unions already and are so stupid they won’t give a reasonable inch in the collective bargaining!

[Core Shot]

Per the powder article keystone and cb are both union. Why aren’t they walking out? That would be huge leverage.

No way vail could scab all three mountains

[skiJ]

Respectfully, NSP is not going to advocate on behalf of Patrols to unionize -
at least regionally, Regional leadership 'partners' with the Ski Area Associiation to direct member Patrols to adopt protocols directed by SAA ;

There is a different model, that involves Patrol leadership and Management working together to develop the Patrol program for the area ( resort? )
( clearly Vail Resorts is not interested in collaboration ) ;

I accept that there is a place for a union, but given my experience, I am still not convinced that every staff Patrol must be unionized.

Good luck. !
( I see Dark days ahead )

skiJ

[summit]

https://coloradosun.com/2024/12/25/s...al-ski-patrol/

[Brian in SLC]

Farmer Jim Lebenthal made some pointy comments about Vail Resort today on CNBC. Apparently didn't appreciate scheduling his vacation in Park City and not being informed of the strike (and that a bunch of terrain was closed).

Then they flashed what the stock was doing...

Interesting.

[skiJ]

Per the powder article keystone and cb are both union. Why aren’t they walking out? That would be huge leverage.

No way vail could scab all three mountains

Legally, CB / Keystone / Breck patrols would not be able to strike in solidarity without effectively quitting their jobs. They are not in the same union. They all have active contracts with Vail that almost certainly have a no strike clause. The reason PC patrol is able to strike with job protections is because contract expired and negotiations for renewal has been unsuccessful.

Not saying I like it. But it's in the interest in patrol unions to play be Federal labor law.

Different unions, different contracts -

by law, other Patrols cannot just 'strike' in support of another Patrol
( it is also my understanding, the Unfair Labor Practices claims are fundamental to the PCPSP strike )

[Skistack]

MTN down 6.5% today. Those poor stockholders!

[The SnowShow]

MTN down 6.5% today. Those poor stockholders!

Bahahahaha Get Fucked Vail Resorts!

[schindlerpiste]

For those who don't follow Townlift: https://townlift.com/2025/01/park-ci...LXRXmdr5PorXMQ

I understand both sides of the wage compression issue. It is not unique for patrollers. It sounds like the same thing as what happens in the legal profession (i.e.: after 6-7 years you either make partner, or you cap out). Vail is a public company. Who knows, maybe the answer lays in stock options for the elite, experienced, career patrollers? It is a difficult issue for sure. One thing is for sure, patrollers need to be compensated for experience, expertise and seniority, and this compensation needs to be discretionary (i.e. the patrollers need something liquid ($$$, stock as opposed to a Vail lifetime coupon, or pass)


Oh how I would love to see Vail out of Park City. I wonder whether there could ever come a time when Vail needed capital so badly, or become so frustrated with the town that it realizes that it is in its best interest to divest. (wishful dreaming)

[DoubleBogey]

The stock peaked at $335 in 6/21, its been on downward slide ever since. Closed today $175

[halliday]

Farmer Jim Lebenthal made some pointy comments about Vail Resort today on CNBC. Apparently didn't appreciate scheduling his vacation in Park City and not being informed of the strike (and that a bunch of terrain was closed).

Then they flashed what the stock was doing...

Interesting.

Who is going to inform him? VR? The patrollers union? Do your due diligence, then get on the plane.

[stuckathuntermtn]

I think a lot of you think a lot higher of organized labor and regular peons than I think a lot of other people do.
I don't think the Mobots with their war wagons or the Texas oil money rich tourists give a shit about the help. That's part of why we're in this mess.