PARK CITY (and all) SKI PATROLLERS DESERVE MORE.

[Rob Stokes]

Your're kidding ? Right?

Not really? The guy literally said he didn't do it for the money. I guess I am being a bit factitious saying that he must be wealthy though, sorry about that.

It grinds my gears when patrollers themselves (usually vollies with other well paying jobs) undermine the cause by saying "well I do it for free" etc etc. I guess it hit a nerve.

What Summit is saying is hitting the nail on the head about tenured 10+ year patrollers needing to see a substantial wage to compensate for their experience.

Sent from my Pixel 8 using Tapatalk

[byates1]

https://www.realtor.com/news/unique-...la-ski-chalet/

[Whiteroom_Guardian]

VR to Park City patrol:

https://youtu.be/FuNJq_wI1ns?si=WAcwYqvsxS-eUIEU

[tang]

snowmakers could use a raise as well…
fact.

Was watching snowmakers from the chair and said to person next to that I don’t know what they make, but it’s not enough. And that was during daylight hours

[fastfred]

Holy fuck bunch cunts
So happy to see park city being fucked for the holidays
Skiing is a hobby not a real life thing

Fuck vail
Pro union here

All the cocks wh9 are constantly devaluing others jobs and accomplishments suck my cock

You are what is wrong

I post this sitting in first class half cocked 9n ipas it must suck to be you it's tough being a baller

Keystone be shutting it down come presidents day weekend can't wait

Pro union Pro ski patrol

[Meadow Skipper]

Holy fuck bunch cunts
So happy to see park city being fucked for the holidays
Skiing is a hobby not a real life thing

Fuck vail
Pro union here

All the cocks wh9 are constantly devaluing others jobs and accomplishments suck my cock

You are what is wrong

I post this sitting in first class half cocked 9n ipas it must suck to be you it's tough being a baller

Keystone be shutting it down come presidents day weekend can't wait

Pro union Pro ski patrol

POTD

[muted reborn]

Brian Higgins: When I broke my leg and needed ski patrol, I was thinking about the shareholders

By forcing ski patrol to make a rescue using expensive man hours, would I eliminate the chance at a profitable day for the resort?


The biggest story in Utah’s outdoor world right now is the Park City Mountain Resort ski patrol strike. The patrollers struck on December 26, one of the busiest days of the season, and are committed to striking until their demands are met. They’re fighting for a number of concessions, but the sticking point for the resort’s parent company, Vail Resorts, seems to be on wages. The patrollers are asking for $23/hr starting pay, up $2/hr from their current starting point of $21/hr. Vail Resorts is apparently unwilling to meet those demands.
Seeing this in the news got me thinking about my own experience with ski patrol in February of 2020. It was a traumatic day that I don’t like to remember.
I’ve been an expert skier since high school, and although I was familiar with the bowl I was skiing that day, the snow was in an unforgiving mood. In between firm and slushy, it was hard to figure out and made for some awkward turns.

Against my better judgement I still chose to hop off a 3- or 4-foot rock. I landed, hit an unseen bump and was suddenly airborne. I flipped head over heels and, as my skis hit the snow, I felt immediate pain in my left leg. Worse, I heard a sickening crunch beneath me.

I would later find out that I had suffered a spiral fracture of my tibia and a clean break of my fibula. The ski patroller on duty said it was one of the worst below-the-knee injuries they’d seen that year. I wouldn’t be able to return to my outdoor hobbies for about four to six months and, to this day, I still have nagging ankle and calf problems from my fall. But I wasn’t thinking about any of that in the moment: I was thinking about the resort’s profit margins and controlling investors.

How would my accident affect the shareholders? By forcing ski patrol to make a rescue using expensive man hours, would I eliminate the chance at a profitable day for the resort? Why had I taken such a careless risk without considering the bottom line? How could I be so stupid?

What if a patroller had been clocking out just as my accident was called in? Would he now have to work another hour? How much would that cost the mountain? If it had been at PCMR, it would have cost $21. Imagine stupidly snapping two of your bones and costing your favorite resort 1/13th the cost of a lift ticket. Would they even be able to open the next day? I was distraught.

Two ski patrollers arrived on the scene quickly. I asked if they could get me down with just one patroller so the other one could clock out and save the resort some money, but they assured me it would take both. I mentally cursed myself again.
Inside the medical area, they told me they would take an X-ray to confirm the breaks. My guilt was mounting. How much electricity did it cost to fire up an X-ray machine? Too much, surely. I tried to balance out the cost by shutting off the lights, but was in too much pain to stand up. Could this day get any worse?

It sure could. Soon, they brought in a third health professional to get the boot off of my leg. Three people on the clock. Three hours of work. At Park City, that would mean $63 dollars. They’d have to sell two and a half cheeseburgers to make up for that.
Patrol soon got to work, and let me tell you: It hurt. If you’ve never felt the pain of three people pressing down on a ski boot exactly where you twisted your tibia into four or five pieces, it’s bad. But still not as bad as the pain of knowing you’ve cost some poor, helpless millionaire out there the chance at passive income.

After all, those investors had done so much for me. They’d invested in this great resort. What had ski patrol ever done besides respond to medical emergencies in dangerous alpine environments, mitigate hazardous avalanche terrain, and set up innumerable safety features around the mountain? Nothing, that’s what.

So let’s all take a moment to thank the people who keep mountains like Park City and Vail’s other resorts safe. And to be clear, I mean financially safe, the more important kind of safe.

If you’re wondering about me, I’m much better now. Surgery and physical therapy eased the pain over time, and I’m back in full form. But real relief only came when I learned the resort I was skiing at was part of a private ownership group.

Brian Higgins is a writer and comedian in Salt Lake City who really did break his leg skiing and wants to thank patrollers everywhere.

From the SLC Tribune...

[tang]

https://gofund.me/33c6e6ed

put your money where your mouth is and support these trollers and their families

arguing about this online ain't worth shit if they can't put food on the table

THIS!!! I’m chipping $ in. Keep the trollers as whole as possible so they can keep the pressure on VR.

[lifelinksplit]

Diedra just popped on my insta with the most tone deaf response to the strike. Obviously not surprising but how do these people live with themselves. Since DD isn't here, someone has to say it...

FUCKING BOOTLICKERS!!

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[beaterdit]

First off, I'm pro-union and pro-PC Ski Patrol.

There are several Patrollers here but here's a bit about my seven years.

Ski Patrol's a great job and there is a certain "glamour" to it. We used to joke about another day being an Alpine Hero. The Pro teams at real mountains, where the stakes are high, and prolly the little ones too, are top notch. At the end of the day though, it's work, and people work to pay their damn bills. If you can't do that, the hill's gonna suffer as new talent washes out quickly and the old Pros retire. Mountain town living's different now, it's hard to make ends meet at double a Patroller's wage. You absolutely need the experience and expertise of the senior Patrollers to train the newbs and see the big picture of snow and resource management.

I was single-ish and had simple needs and was used to low pay anyway as ski bum. I made much more money in the summer which is why I lasted that long. Still though, the seasonal, no benefits, low pay thing gets old. Not to mention how hard it is on your body. I left in 2006 at $15ish/hour after seven years as a Pro. Might have made a bit more except I went part-time for the last couple years and stopped progressing my role and responsibilities. That was still some of the better pay in Colorado at the time. Some of the things I did were avi route leader and accident investigations among other stuff. Most of us were route leaders by about year three.

I got my EMT-B with a Wilderness module (WEMT-B) in one month in the off season on my own dime. It was more than double the price of a regular course, about $1800 in 1997(?), including a bunk and meals. The course was 180 hours including the 20 hour wilderness module. Really not a bad deal and it was super fun. Still a sizable investment for ski bum with no job guaranteed. Contrast that with the NSP's OEC (Outdoor Emergency Care), formerly WEC (Winter Emergency Care), that's basically a WFR equivalent at 80 hours. I'd done WEC years before just for myself, to be better prepared in the backcountry. I did the WEMT in the fall before the ski area opened but didn't get hired onto the Patrol for two or three more years. Both the Patrols I worked on were all EMT-B minimum with some higher levels. We all saw some shit as far as trauma and medical. The continuing ed to maintain our licenses was covered in our annual Patrol refresher training pre-season. We all had to test out of OEC every year too IIRC.

I had also done my Avi 2 in Silverton on my own dime a few years before I started Patrolling. That wasn't super relevant for my first Patrol job, we just didn't' have the terrain, it didn't hurt though. It was super relevant for my next job where I spent five years.

I've got a couple friends that are current or former Patrollers up there and I'll try to answer a couple other questions from upthread.

For one thing, they're not just asking for a higher starting wage, part of what they're asking for is also to address the wage compression at the middle and upper end of the pay scale that happened when they bumped entry level pay to $21/hr last year or the year before. Thing is, they bumped entry level pay for the whole resort to $19 or $20/hr at the same time so Pro Patrollers were starting at $1/hr more than dishwashers. Of course the dishwashers deserve to get paid well too but the skills and responsibility required of a Patroller are obviously exponentially more.

People were also asking about the summer work. They only run a maximum of around ten Patrollers/day for the summer bike operations, fewer on weekdays. Also it's only when the lift's open for bikes which is like a four month season. Year round work is only available for a select few career Patrollers in supervisory or management roles. Given all that, the health insurance thing will be tough. I could see signing people up and having them pay the premium in the off season, maybe. Still that'll be expensive if the corp doesn't keep paying their subsidies.

Someone upthread mentioned they should have gone on strike sooner before vail could muster up reinforcements. One of the reasons they didn't was because there wasn't enough snow to open enough terrain, and weren't enough skiers to need more than a skeleton crew. With the terrain they had available and the skier numbers, the mountain could pretty much be run by just the supervisors, who aren't allowed to be in the union. Now they have the snow but are struggling to open more terrain due to lack of staff. The crowds are here and they're noticing, and feeling like their vacations are ruined, and being vocal about it. I'm happy to see the union getting some leverage up there now, and seeing vail getting dragged on the socials.

Anyhow, I support the Patrol and their Union, and fuck vail.

[Kevo]

Would be great if patrol at all the other vail resorts properties joined the union. I wonder if that is in the works behind the scenes.

[Shaaarrrp]

[Cono Este]

Some are muddying the waters comparing patrols. It’s like comparing a pool guard at the Y to an ocean Beach guard.

My dad’s buddy had a brain aneurysm up at La parva, there’s thousands of people, all kinds, on the hill, the golden hr is real.

Seems the fuckers all want their kids swimming in the ocean with minimum wage Y guards that can barely swim themselves.

[Trackhead]

Yeah but it’s an affordable $250 mid-month.

[Foggy_Goggles]

Would be great if patrol at all the other vail resorts properties joined the union. I wonder if that is in the works behind the scenes.

In today's world, there is no behind the scenes (screens). This conversation is front and center in patrol locker rooms everywhere. Hence Vail acting as they are. This is a Proxy War. Ski Town Workers verse the Machine.

And using an overly simplified supply and demand labor model and comparing patrol wages to other stupid low wages as justification is pretty short sighted. Non living wage jobs is a giant social problem and the basic bitches are conditioned to think that more for someone else is less for them. So we get no change because nobody wants to give up anything.

Is it the tip of the spear, maybe. Does a rising tide lift all boats, hopefully. For 30 years, this shit has been going in the wrong direction. Maybe we can get a bit of momentum in the right direction.

[Bunion 2020]

Non living wage jobs is a giant social problem and the basic bitches are conditioned to think that more for someone else is less for them. So we get no change because nobody wants to give up anything.
For 30 years, this shit has been going in the wrong direction. Maybe we can get a bit of momentum in the right direction.

Spot on!
When I started at Big Sky I was paid $ 6.75 p/hr (1992) or roughly 30 years ago. That was with 7 years patrol experience.



I was able to live pretty decently on those wages, then.

[zion zig zag]

In today's world, there is no behind the scenes (screens). This conversation is front and center in patrol locker rooms everywhere. Hence Vail acting as they are. This is a Proxy War. Ski Town Workers verse the Machine.

And using an overly simplified supply and demand labor model and comparing patrol wages to other stupid low wages as justification is pretty short sighted. Non living wage jobs is a giant social problem and the basic bitches are conditioned to think that more for someone else is less for them. So we get no change because nobody wants to give up anything.

Is it the tip of the spear, maybe. Does a rising tide lift all boats, hopefully. For 30 years, this shit has been going in the wrong direction. Maybe we can get a bit of momentum in the right direction.

Agreed. The comments on KSL surrounding this are mind blowing (I mean, I know they shouldn’t surprise me, but they always do). For whatever reason, with everything happening in the world, it feels like we are in some kind of now or never moment. Like labor needs to take the power back or be lost for generations. I’m pessimistic but hopeful.

[Foggy_Goggles]

It's interesting, as a contractor that has owned his own business for more that twenty years, I feel I have a bit of perspective on this.

I get to make up my prices (bid rate, hourly, T&M), present them to my prospective customers (homeowners, HOAs, GCs etc.) and them talk about it.

There is a not insubstantial amount of people that just want everything for less always because that it better for them. It's just the way the think about shit. There is no context or self awareness. They'll drive a $100k SUV to their $2million second home and expect that their cleaner should show up every Monday morning and deal with their bullshit for $100. I used to ask these people "how much do you think it should cost and why?". Now I respond to "that seems expensive" with "sounds like I've finally made it, I've been trying to be expensive for 20 years". Simplified, these people think like the pizza is a finite size and if you eat a piece, their will be less for them.

Other people understand a fair price for a good product or service. They understand their station in life, are grateful, and pay with a smile. They believe that the pizza is an undefined size and we can all work to make it bigger and better.

It today's world the later group prospers quietly and the former group just rages. And the socials gives them a voice. They want to squeeze the max out of the system for themselves and give and do the absolute bare minimum for everyone else.

So yeah, that's my take. Pay everyone in a ski town starting at $30 and see what happens. My guess, just about nothing other that the workers struggle less, perhaps cheeseburgers go from $25 to $27, a few less vaca to CR for the small business owners, some uncomfortable conference calls and 10Q, the PE guys get worked up. Who cares?

[Shaaarrrp]

End stage capitalism

[tang]

End stage capitalism

Yes, this plus massive consolidation (zero anti-trust enforcement) has put big corporate in the drivers seat across the whole economy and society. VR being just one example. Patrollers can’t easily seek work elsewhere since Vail sets the market.

[Foggy_Goggles]

The defeatist "end stage" bullshit is weak sauce. Many societies, ours included, has gone through many iterations of labor/capitial imbalance. I'm not saying we are not in a tough spot but this end is near, not my problem, I'm going down the the ship rhetoric is old specially coming from the TGR demographic.

Is you think there is nothing you can do, the powers that be have you exactly were they want you and you are part of the problem. What would Rage Against the Machine or Public Enemy Say?

[Going Coastal]

The ship is sinking, always has been and always will be. The problem is the Captain cares more about the cargo than the crew, and the crew is starting to wonder what motivation they have to save it.

[Shaaarrrp]

The defeatist "end stage" bullshit is weak sauce. Many societies, ours included, has gone through many iterations of labor/capitial imbalance. I'm not saying we are not in a tough spot but this end is near, not my problem, I'm going down the the ship rhetoric is old specially coming from the TGR demographic.

Is you think there is nothing you can do, the powers that be have you exactly were they want you and you are part of the problem. What would Rage Against the Machine or Public Enemy Say?

Late or end stage of capitalism doesn't mean everyone lacks the capacity to lift themselves up or thrive in it. I consider myself lucky enough to have that opportunity. Anyone who has the time to ski a lot and post on TGR is probably in the same boat. But I do believe the poorest masses are becoming increasingly powerless and a larger segment of society.

Has any society ever gone thru what we are about to in terms of algorithms replacing jobs, along with practically all wealth from a job going to a handful of people? Has there ever been such wealth disparity between the haves and have nots? Between the top 1% and the middle class? I'm not sure textile factories becoming automated or any prior imbalances are comparable.

Fwiw, I'm not saying the end of us is near. I just believe the country will turn far more socialist and willing to vote to tax the rich, which seems like the obvious choice in any society where resources become consolidated to the levels we're heading towards. Seems like GOP is very capable of brainwashing the masses for now but that will get harder as things get worse.

[livefreerdie]

Enshittification is what they call it for the decay of online platforms for short-term profits and corporate skiing wants the same. Reduce quality just to the point that the customer will tolerate it, or until after you got their money.

I've run a femur with one experienced patroller from the hill to the ambulance pickup in less than half an hour. I've also showed up to a femur call with 3 EMTs that had basically zero experience, a half hour of fiddling had passed and the patient wasn't in the toboggan yet.

Unionizing is one thing that can be done to give some stability and control back to the workers. I think limits on real estate investment and legislation for right to repair are reachable steps too. At the far end of options, you've got the national razor of France.

[old goat]

Late or end stage of capitalism doesn't mean everyone lacks the capacity to lift themselves up or thrive in it. I consider myself lucky enough to have that opportunity. Anyone who has the time to ski a lot and post on TGR is probably in the same boat. But I do believe the poorest masses are becoming increasingly powerless and a larger segment of society.

Has any society ever gone thru what we are about to in terms of algorithms replacing jobs, along with practically all wealth from a job going to a handful of people? Has there ever been such wealth disparity between the haves and have nots? Between the top 1% and the middle class? I'm not sure textile factories becoming automated or any prior imbalances are comparable.

Fwiw, I'm not saying the end of us is near. I just believe the country will turn far more socialist and willing to vote to tax the rich, which seems like the obvious choice in any society where resources become consolidated to the levels we're heading towards. Seems like GOP is very capable of brainwashing the masses for now but that will get harder as things get worse.

we just had our chance and blew it.