Bitcoin....who's gotten into it?

[byates1]

BTC ppl believe it's the best version of money created and will act as the foundation for a better monetary system.

[Bunion 2020]

BTC ppl believe it's the best version of money created and will act as the foundation for a better monetary system.

Of course you do and why? Because so far the line has gone............ Up.

[byates1]

I didn't say I specifically believe that. I think it has an outside chance of becoming a major player in the global financial system.

If the trend of the last 10 15 yrs continues expect it to become.more dominant. Not rocket science.

[nickwm21]

….for it to be the best version of money…. wouldn’t…. people… be using it as currency….

Tricky little tid bit there….


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[bennymac]

Byates sobered up and now has to explain all the dumb shit he wrote while drunk posting

[Not DJSapp]

….for it to be the best version of money…. wouldn’t…. people… be using it as currency….

Tricky little tid bit there….


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It's so weird. It's been around for 15 years and I still can't use it to buy groceries, or a cheeseburger, or skis, or...

I guess I could buy a CYBERTRUK, but it doesn't suit me. At least it has more staying power than beanie babies.

[byates1]

BTC is Schrodinger's cat. It's whatever you observe it to be. The end.

[skaredshtles]

BTC is Schrodinger's cat. It's whatever you observe it to be. The end.

Is it any wonder some of us are like, "Nah, Brotato, I'm good"?

[The Nuclear Option]

Yeah Schrodinger’s cat is bullshit too.

BTC is Schrodinger's cat. It's whatever you observe it to be. The end.

[Bunion 2020]

BTC is Schrodinger's cat. It's whatever you observe it to be. The end.

But is the kitty dead?

[couloirman]

[emoji638]][emoji640][emoji639]][emoji637][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji639]][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]][emoji637][emoji640]]Yeah Schrodinger’s cat is bullshit too.

Bullshit that you can make a shit ton of money on if you play it right…. It doesn’t have to make sense as a currency to make sense as an investment, either short term or long term


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[J. Barron DeJong]

What happens when new money arrives. It goes up.

Wait, everytime new money arrives (whatever that means), it causes deflation?

Is there evidence of that? Did you even realize that’s what you were saying? Do you know that deflation in an economy is bad, actually? Do you actually know anything?

[J. Barron DeJong]

Bullshit that you can make a shit ton of money on if you play it right…. It doesn’t have to make sense as a currency to make sense as an investment, either short term or long term


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I don’t like my investments to have a negative expected rate of return?

It’s gambling, not an investment.

[couloirman]

[emoji638]][emoji640][emoji639]][emoji637][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji639]][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji639]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]]]I don’t like my investments to have a negative expected rate of return?

It’s gambling, not an investment.

Why on earth do you think there will be a negative rate of return? [emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]]],[emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]]]% gain over the past [emoji637][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]]] years really raises a lot of red flags to you? Lol. Yeah, the S&P[emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]]] can def keep up with that…..


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[couloirman]

Why on earth do you think there will be a negative rate of return? [emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]]],[emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]]]% gain over the past [emoji637][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]]] years really raises a lot of red flags to you? Lol. Yeah, the S&P[emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]]] can def keep up with that…..


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Oh my God, what is wrong with the TGR iPhone app?

Let me rephrase, why would you expect a negative rate of return when over the past 10 years it’s put in 90,000% gains and shows no signs of losing relevance. If anything, being more mainstream than ever, it’s safer than it’s ever been

[byates1]

Use the website on your phone, choose metro mobile black white at the bottom left. Don't use app

[nickwm21]

[emoji638]][emoji640][emoji639]][emoji637][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji639]][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]][emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji639][emoji640]]Bullshit that you can make a shit ton of money on if you play it right…. It doesn’t have to make sense as a currency to make sense as an investment, either short term or long term


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Woooooosh


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[Bunion 2020]

Bullshit that you can make a shit ton of money on if you play it right…. It doesn’t have to make sense as a currency to make sense as an investment, either short term or long term

And by your logic so is buying lottery tickets. Somebody just made 1.3 Billion on a 3 dollar ticket.

[LeeLau]

And by your logic so is buying lottery tickets. Somebody just made 1.3 Billion on a 3 dollar ticket.

I haven't followed the "discussion" (to dignify the banter). Bitcoin has yield. Lottery tickets don't.

[J. Barron DeJong]

Oh my God, what is wrong with the TGR iPhone app?

Let me rephrase, why would you expect a negative rate of return when over the past 10 years it’s put in 90,000% gains and shows no signs of losing relevance. If anything, being more mainstream than ever, it’s safer than it’s ever been

Because Bitcoin is just people putting their money in a giant pool. Then the miners take their cut from it. So the money in the pool is always less than what was initially put in.

It’s going to the casino. The house gets its cut. Some players will get lucky and come out ahead, but the average player is a loser.

And don’t tell me you’re up ‘on paper’. You’re not up until you’ve cashed out with gains.

[Bunion 2020]

https://markets.businessinsider.com/...rtfolio-2024-1

Stocks are a claim on a company's future cash flows, bonds and savings accounts pay out interest, while commodities have industrial uses and demand for them can be modeled using economic data, the Rosenberg Research president said in a morning note on Monday.

"These things are real," Rosenberg wrote. "You want to get rich by believing in crypto 'currencies?' Then barbell your holdings with lottery tickets. Seriously — let's get a grip."


The former chief North American economist at Merrill Lynch argued that bitcoin and other tokens are examples of the "greater fool" theory at work. In other words, people buy them not because they're intrinsically worth anything, but because they hope to sell them for a profit to someone even more foolish.

Bitcoin yield is the additional income you can generate by deploying your BTC holdings in a lending or liquidity pool. Bitcoin DeFi Platforms like Sovryn enable bitcoin holders to earn yield on their BTC via lending or liquidity provision.

OK and who is backing these loans? Not trying to be a dick, you know way more about investing than I do.

[J. Barron DeJong]

I haven't followed the "discussion" (to dignify the banter). Bitcoin has yield. Lottery tickets don't.

Buying stocks or bonds there is a possibility (not a guarantee, though close if you’re buying top rated bonds) that everyone who buys them comes out ahead.

That’s not the case when buying Bitcoin. The average payback will be negative, even if there are winners.

[J. Barron DeJong]

https://markets.businessinsider.com/...rtfolio-2024-1





OK and who is backing these loans? Not trying to be a dick, you know way more about investing than I do.

Maybe I’m reading the second quote wrong, but is it saying that Bitcoin has yield because you can lend it out to earn a yield?

You can’t say, for example, that using your US dollars to buy up a bunch of Euros provides yield because you can use Euros to buy things that do provide yield.

Dollars, Euros, and Bitcoins do not provide yield.

[LeeLau]

https://markets.businessinsider.com/...rtfolio-2024-1





OK and who is backing these loans? Not trying to be a dick, you know way more about investing than I do.

Bitcoin yield can be earned by selling call options against a bitcoin etf. This is a "covered call". It's a mature investment strategy used to generate an income stream against an asset that one holds.

Because options on bitcoin/crypto ETFs is so new (only permitted since Oct 2024) there's no meaningful historicals. Right now the 6 month yield on "standard" covered call options strategies is approx 14%pa. The 12 month yield is approx 12%. That seems way too high. Most would be delighted with 8%. So, again IMO, it's too early to tell how much a buy and hold bitcoin ETF would yield but it's a lot more than zero.

A bitcoin ETF such as the IShares IBIT is so large, and so regulated that it has relatively big trading volume, probably because it radiates trust Because it has large volume in the ETF stock it has large'ish options trading volume from people hedging

The link you mentioned requires that one's bitcoin be held in an unregulated "trust me" exchange, as opposed to an audited, regulated exchange, like the exchanges listing the cryptoand bitcoin ETFs.

The unregulated crypto exchanges are outside my risk tolerance. A regulated, listed on an exchange ETf guaranteed by the Canadian CDIC or the US FDIC is within my risk tolerance

[J. Barron DeJong]

Bitcoin yield can be earned by selling call options against a bitcoin etf. This is a "covered call". It's a mature investment strategy used to generate an income stream against an asset that one holds.

Because options on bitcoin/crypto ETFs is so new (only permitted since Oct 2024) there's no meaningful historicals. Right now the 6 month yield on "standard" covered call options strategies is approx 14%pa. The 12 month yield is approx 12%. That seems way too high. Most would be delighted with 8%. So, again IMO, it's too early to tell how much a buy and hold bitcoin ETF would yield but it's a lot more than zero.

A bitcoin ETF such as the IShares IBIT is so large, and so regulated that it has relatively big trading volume, probably because it radiates trust Because it has large volume in the ETF stock it has large'ish options trading volume from people hedging

The link you mentioned requires that one's bitcoin be held in an unregulated "trust me" exchange, as opposed to an audited, regulated exchange, like the exchanges listing the cryptoand bitcoin ETFs.

The unregulated crypto exchanges are outside my risk tolerance. A regulated, listed on an exchange ETf guaranteed by the Canadian CDIC or the US FDIC is within my risk tolerance

How is that different than saying dollars provide yield, which they obviously don’t.

Sitting on dollars or Bitcoin doesn’t provide yield.