United Healthcare CEO shot to death in front of NYC investor meeting

[ötzi]

well sure.

[TBS]

On another front Nancy Pelosi went to Germany to get her hip replacement. Doesn't that tell yo everything you need to know about the US healthcare system?

No, it doesn’t tell you shit

She fell and broke her hip while in Luxembourg on official US business. She was taken to a US Military hospital in Germany where US military docs did the surgery. Fun fact - members of Congress can get health care at military installations

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politic...jury-from-fall

[PB]

Plus ..... it avoids the 6+ hours of agony flying back the US.

[fomofo]

On another front Nancy Pelosi went to Germany to get her hip replacement. Doesn't that tell yo everything you need to know about the US healthcare system?

No, it doesn’t tell you shit

She fell and broke her hip while in Luxembourg on official US business. She was taken to a US Military hospital in Germany where US military docs did the surgery.

Er, that was a joke.


Back on track, maybe insurance companies aren't completely to blame after all?**



**Also a joke

[J. Barron DeJong]

Er, that was a joke.


Back on track, maybe insurance companies aren't completely to blame after all?**



**Also a joke

That joke went over my head too. Just never got around to jumping down your throat about it, so a win for procrastination then.

[fomofo]

That joke went over my head too. Just never got around to jumping down your throat about it, so a win for procrastination then.

I figured since Pelosi is a member of Congress it would be understood she wouldn't need to leave the country to save on medical bills. Cause, you know, unlike the hoi pollio they have really good health insurance, and I'd be surprised if any treatment is ever denied.

Plus, insider trading. So footing any out of pocket wouldn't be a problem.**

**Again, joking. Kinda.

[coldfeet]

Right, that's why Political murder is bad. How is that not obvious? Allende, who committed suicide and was not murdered, and like Hugo Chavez was elected—but after his narrow victory joined forces with more radical communists and ruled like a dictator. Including engaging in political violence. Allenda's actions caused a constitutional crisis culminating in the Pinochet coup and all the horrors that ensued. Neither Allende nor Pinochet were liberal democrats.

The point being, there is no way to normalize violence against the type of people you don't like without also, effectively, normalizing violence against everybody else. Violent psychopathy justified by class violence, led by wealthy Marxists, leads to even greater acts of violence, in turn triggering calls for even more violence. Marxists have reshaped Allende's legacy as a folk hero and a democrat. He was neither. Pinochet was a disgusting Fascist and Allende was a brutal Cuban-style communist

Allende committed suicide in the presidential palace in Chile - while it was being rocketed and machine-gunned by their own air force. Whether to avoid being executed by the coup masterminds or to avoid being taken alive and paraded through the streets, I am not sure. The fact that you can't represent this straightforwardly is indicative of not approaching the subject honestly. Both Allende in Chile and Mossadegh in Iran were overthrown largely (IMO) because they were nationalizing industries that were important to domestic rich people and to US/UK strategic interests, not because they were initiating political violence. In retrospect, I don't think nationalizing industries is a great economic strategy, but I don't think it warrants replacing a democracy with decades of dictatorship.

I'm beating this dead horse on a ski forum because there is skiing in Chile, skiers visit there often, and I think it's worth knowing a little of this history, especially our own US dirty hands. When I first started going there in the mid-90s, a few years after the return to democracy, on almost every trip there'd still be newspaper headlines about some general - even the general of the Carabinieros - getting in a standoff with the civilian government over some dispute of his turf prerogatives. By the early 2000s most of that seemed to have died down (possibly as both the powerful people in society got less comfortable with military saber-rattling, and the old farts retired off). But having the "security forces" be the source of insecurity - not good.

[MultiVerse]

In retrospect, I don't think nationalizing industries is a great economic strategy, but I don't think it warrants replacing a democracy with decades of dictatorship.

It started with a dictatorship, that's the point. A military coup usurping power, expropriation & nationalizing industries, triple digit inflation, power & food shortages and rationing, crushing civil society and the free press, ignoring the constitution, people fleeing the country in panic.

Allende was just another violent Marxist dictator like Castro, Chavez, Mao, Lenin, Pol Pot, et al. If Allende had not tried to take over the country with his despotic unconstitutional adventures, Pinochet and the Chilean Army would not have issued their ultimatum at the Moneda Palace in Santiago 50 years ago.


Worth a read, Violent men have always gained followers:
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/14/o...unabomber.html

[4matic]

I had the same back problem but not as severe. I can see how the pain and suffering could cause mental breakdown and anger. I was lucky enough to have Medi-Cal HMO approve my surgery and the one Neurologist that took it in 50 mile radius willing to fix it. I doubt it would have been as easy getting a private underwriter to approve. In fact, my “pain management” Dr. told me I had to just live with it and totally misdiagnosed it. He was from the medical group I used when I had corporate insurance. I’m so lucky..

Fwiw, I have UHC part g now and it’s been good.

[bobz]

Fwiw, I have UHC part g now and it’s been good.

Good indeed. Medigap policies are tightly defined by the govt in just about every way; it's plainly spelled out what the Medigap insurer does and doesn't pay for, and exactly how much. There's literally no one at UHC with any discretion at all over plan G payouts.

[bodywhomper]

It started with a dictatorship, that's the point. A military coup usurping power, expropriation & nationalizing industries, triple digit inflation, power & food shortages and rationing, crushing civil society and the free press, ignoring the constitution, people fleeing the country in panic.

Allende was just another violent Marxist dictator like Castro, Chavez, Mao, Lenin, Pol Pot, et al. If Allende had not tried to take over the country with his despotic unconstitutional adventures, Pinochet and the Chilean Army would not have issued their ultimatum at the Moneda Palace in Santiago 50 years ago.


Worth a read, Violent men have always gained followers:
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/14/o...unabomber.html

Getting this thread back on track…. so Allende was a dictator? Just like pol pot?

[RTsucks]

And Pinochet was a constitutionalist.

[MultiVerse]

More like Chavez or Putin. Allende was elected and then once in office tried to seize dictatorial power. Hugo Chávez and Nicolás Maduro followed in the footsteps of Allende. Marxists have reshaped Allende's legacy as a folk hero and a democrat. He was neither.

And Pinochet was a constitutionalist.

Call me a reasoned sadist but I'd rather see heads of rapey corporations gunned down than kids at school

No, Allende was a brutal Cuban-style communist and Pinochet was a disgusting fascist. That's the problem with using lampposts to valorize homicidal lunatics. And, as we saw today kids are not somehow immunized from premeditated gun violence just because an adult was shot days before. Not an accident that it turns into this with an ideology where basic morals are abandoned.

[RTsucks]

What's that?

[byates1]

More like Chavez or Putin. Allende was elected and then once in office tried to seize dictatorial power. Hugo Chávez and Nicolás Maduro followed in the footsteps of Allende. Marxists have reshaped Allende's legacy as a folk hero and a democrat. He was neither.

No, Allende was a brutal Cuban-style communist and Pinochet was a disgusting fascist. That's the problem with using lampposts to valorize homicidal lunatics. And, as we saw today kids are not somehow immunized from premeditated gun violence just because an adult was shot days before. Not an accident that it turns into this with an ideology where basic morals are abandoned.

Buddy take a look around. Basic morals took a backseat a while back.

Also, nearly all of humanity has been savagely murdering each other since the dawn of time.

Hope this cheers you up.

[MultiVerse]

That doesn't make assassination an acceptable tool of social change

[bodywhomper]

Like what’s been happening in the ME?


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[MultiVerse]

You don't have visit the ME to hear Americans screaming eliminationist chants like — “From the river to the sea,” and “Long live the intifada,” and "death to America" from people who can't stand watching Israelis defend themselves. As with this thread lots of people in that thread said protesters “have a point.”

[bodywhomper]

I’m talking about assassinations in the Middle East as a tool of social change.


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[evdog]

Speaking of the ME



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[frorider]

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/18/o...smid=url-share

I left my job as a health insurance executive at Cigna after a crisis of conscience. It began in 2005, during a meeting convened by the chief executive to brief department heads on the company’s latest strategy: “consumerism.”

Marketing consultants created the term to persuade employers and policymakers to shift hundreds, and in many cases thousands, of dollars in health-care costs onto consumers before insurance coverage kicks in. At the time, most Americans had relatively modest cost-sharing obligations — a $300 deductible, a $10 co-payment. “Consumerism” proponents contended that if patients had more “skin in the game” they would be more prudent consumers of health care, and providers would lower their prices.

….

At a county fairground in Wise, Va., I witnessed people standing in lines that stretched out of view, waiting to see physicians who were stationed in animal stalls. The event’s organizers, from a nonprofit called Remote Area Medical, told me that of the thousands of people who came to this three-day clinic every year, some had health insurance but did not have enough money in the bank to cover their out-of-pocket obligations.

That shook me to my core. I was forced to come to terms with the fact that I was playing a leading role in a system that made desperate people wait months or longer to get care in animal stalls, or go deep into medical debt.

The tragic assassination of the UnitedHealthcare chief executive Brian Thompson has reinvigorated a conversation that my former colleagues have long worked to suppress about an industry that puts profits above patients. Over 20 years working in health insurance, I saw the unrelenting pressure investors put on insurers to spend less paying out claims. The average amount insurers spent on medical care dropped from 95 cents per premium dollar in 1993, the year I joined Cigna, to approximately 85 cents per dollar in 2011, after the Affordable Care Act restricted how much insurers can profit from premiums. Since then, big insurers have bought physician practices, clinics and pharmacy middlemen, largely to increase their bottom line.

…

[summit]

Speaking of the ME



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Speaking of terrorism, they are charging Luigi with terrorism. I'm betting that won't stick.

[fomofo]

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/18/o...smid=url-share

Strong piece, thx for sharing.

This is that guy's Substack, mentioned at the end...

https://healthcareuncovered.substack.com

[dan_pdx]

Here's the gift version of that article for folks without nyt subscriptions

Er, I mean, here it is
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/18/o...smid=url-share

[Ted Striker]

Speaking of terrorism, they are charging Luigi with terrorism. I'm betting that won't stick.

I'd put it at 50/50. He had a manifesto. He didn't ditch the gun. The casings were inscribed. The intent was loud and clear, and the people heard it. If someone yelled "death to America" and shot a politician, and the whole internet said "fuck yeah!" that guy's going down for terror.

But really this a message to the peasants that the elite are off limits.