Bitcoin....who's gotten into it?

[J. Barron DeJong]

I don't necessarily think it's bullshit. There are you happy?

Are you ok with governments hoarding shiny rocks? Have you written letters to your representatives expressing your concern about child slaves mining gold in illegally logged areas and miners poisoning the water supply with cyanide?

Do you care to articulate a positive case for a Bitcoin reserve?

Also, when did the government last buy gold? 1934?

The government didn’t need to buy up gold once they left the gold standard for ‘fiat’, which you seem to think is a problem, along with the buying of the gold, so what the fuck?

[The Nuclear Option]

Yes she can. She is selling it to somebody and if they lose, fuckem, she got hers.

I have listened. And you have refused to provide any answers to mu genuine questions but instead resort to snarky remarks and guesses about my motivations.

Who isnt nice now?

Shera can do whatever she wants. That's one of the great things about BTC.

Shear is one of the most knowledgeable posters in this thread. Be nice and try to listen. She deserves our respect. You haven't demonstrated any such thing.

[stalefish3169]

Do you care to articulate a positive case for a Bitcoin reserve?

Also, when did the government last buy gold? 1934?

The government didn’t need to buy up gold once they left the gold standard for ‘fiat’, which you seem to think is a problem, along with the buying of the gold, so what the fuck?

I've been in BTC since 2017, long before the idea of a national BTC SR was even fathomable. It's not really part of my investment thesis. Other nations are already accumulating, and individual states in the United States have SR legislation in progress. If the USA federal government doesn't proceed with a SR, then they will be at a competitive disadvantage in the future, especially as other countries stop buying our bonds because we're in an unsustainable debt spiral (as confirmed by JPOW, not just cRaAzY sTaLEfisH).

But you should quit worrying about the SR and instead spend your energy worrying about the trillions of dollars the USA has pinned on tax payers to enrich weapons manufacture while causing death and destruction all over the world.

[stalefish3169]

Yes she can. She is selling it to somebody and if they lose, fuckem, she got hers.

I have listened. And you have refused to provide any answers to mu genuine questions but instead resort to snarky remarks and guesses about my motivations.

Who isnt nice now?

What is your genuine question?

"How is BTC bigger than one person or party?"

BTC is bigger than any one person or party because it's the most decentralized cryptocurrency by a large margin. No single person has the ability to control it, or create more of it. A single party in one country can't either.

Are you happy?

[J. Barron DeJong]

I've been in BTC since 2017, long before the idea of a national BTC SR was even fathomable. It's not really part of my investment thesis. Other nations are already accumulating, and individual states in the United States have SR legislation in progress. If the USA federal government doesn't proceed with a SR, then they will be at a competitive disadvantage in the future, especially as other countries stop buying our bonds because we're in an unsustainable debt spiral (as confirmed by JPOW, not just cRaAzY sTaLEfisH).

But you should quit worrying about the SR and instead spend your energy worrying about the trillions of dollars the USA has pinned on tax payers to enrich weapons manufacture while causing death and destruction all over the world.

They will be at a competitive disadvantage? How?

What’s your theory here?

Does the government buy bitcoin with dollars and then sell the bitcoin later to pay off it’s dollar denominated debt?

Or maybe you’d like to tie the value of the dollar directly to an amount of Bitcoin? I mean, that’s why we had a gold reserve after all.

And Powell didn’t say we’re in an ‘unsustainable debt spiral’. He said we’re on an unsustainable fiscal path, which he clarified to mean debt is currently growing faster than the economy which is true. But a spiral normally refers to a self-reinforcing feedback loop, which is not what we have going on here. There’s no technical reason the US can’t get back onto a sustainable path, but there is reason to believe it won’t happen until politicians hands are forced into making it happen.

[stalefish3169]

They will be at a competitive disadvantage? How?

What’s your theory here?

Does the government buy bitcoin with dollars and then sell the bitcoin later to pay off it’s dollar denominated debt?

Or maybe you’d like to tie the value of the dollar directly to an amount of Bitcoin? I mean, that’s why we had a gold reserve after all.

And Powell didn’t say we’re in an ‘unsustainable debt spiral’. He said we’re on an unsustainable fiscal path, which he clarified to mean debt is currently growing faster than the economy which is true. But a spiral normally refers to a self-reinforcing feedback loop, which is not what we have going on here. There’s no technical reason the US can’t get back onto a sustainable path, but there is reason to believe it won’t happen until politicians hands are forced into making it happen.

You're really splitting hairs with "unsustainable debt spiral" versus "unsustainable fiscal path" there.

In terms of the competitive disadvantage, if other countries buy up BTC and it keeps increasing in price, then the USA might have to buy at a higher price than it would've had it acquired sooner. Simple game theory.

I can't answer all your gotcha style questions man. Watch the video and report back.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsAJXQJzA4A

[byates1]

You really think the chair of the fed would say" unsustainable debt spiral? Huh

Quite the zesty thread this last week

MTM spot on. Love it.

[The Nuclear Option]

What percentage of people are involved?

QUOTE=stalefish3169;7167759]What is your genuine question?

"How is BTC bigger than one person or party?"

BTC is bigger than any one person or party because it's the most decentralized cryptocurrency by a large margin. No single person has the ability to control it, or create more of it. A single party in one country can't either.

Are you happy?[/QUOTE]

[byates1]

TNO is the best troll in a while. Kudos

[J. Barron DeJong]

You're really splitting hairs with "unsustainable debt spiral" versus "unsustainable fiscal path" there.

In terms of the competitive disadvantage, if other countries buy up BTC and it keeps increasing in price, then the USA might have to buy at a higher price than it would've had it acquired sooner. Simple game theory.

I can't answer all your gotcha style questions man. Watch the video and report back.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsAJXQJzA4A

Ho Lee Fuck. That video is a mess.

We’re going to buy and hold bitcoin. No, we’re going to to tie the value of the dollar to Bitcoin, a new Bitcoin standard dollar. No we’re going to buy a million bitcoin and in a couple years it would be worth enough to pay off half the National debt.

Do you actually watch that and nod your head in agreement?

[J. Barron DeJong]

You really think the chair of the fed would say" unsustainable debt spiral? Huh

Quite the zesty thread this last week

MTM spot on. Love it.

The thing is we could quite easily get ourselves back into a sustainable fiscal path thru a mix of spending cuts and tax increases (mostly tax increases).

It’s not a spiral as that word is normally used. We don’t HAVE to keep borrowing more to pay off the bills that come due, we could actually just pay them with the some of the wealth Americans have.

[stalefish3169]

What percentage of people are involved?

QUOTE=stalefish3169;7167759]What is your genuine question?

"How is BTC bigger than one person or party?"

BTC is bigger than any one person or party because it's the most decentralized cryptocurrency by a large margin. No single person has the ability to control it, or create more of it. A single party in one country can't either.

Are you happy?

Here ya go boss.

Nodes:
These are like librarians who keep a copy of the entire Bitcoin transaction history (the blockchain) on their computers. They run Bitcoin software—code you can find at
https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin. When a new block (a batch of transactions) is announced, each node checks it against the rules (like making sure no one spends coins twice and that transactions follow the code’s rules). If a block fails the rules, nodes ignore it. So if someone tries writing “Alice gives Bob 10 coins” when Alice doesn’t have them, that page gets tossed out.

https://bitnodes.io/

Miners:
Imagine these as puzzle-solvers who compete to add a new page (block) to the notebook. To propose a new block, a miner puts together a bunch of valid transactions and then tries to solve a math puzzle (finding a special number called a “nonce” that makes the block’s digital fingerprint, called a hash, look a certain way). The math puzzle is basically guessing billions of times until they find a winner.

Why do miners bother? If they solve the puzzle first, they win some new bitcoins as a reward—like getting free candy for adding a correct page. If they try to cheat, nodes reject their block, and they end up with nothing. So it’s not worth being sneaky.

Consensus Rules in the Code:
The Bitcoin codebase (mostly in C++) defines the rules for what a valid block or transaction looks like. Anyone can read and run this code. These consensus rules don’t change easily, because everyone must update their software. If someone tries to rewrite the code to allow printing free bitcoins for themselves, honest nodes refuse their blocks. In other words, the code has a strict dress code: you dress wrong (cheat), you’re not allowed in.

The Result:
Through the interplay of nodes checking rules, miners working hard for rewards, and the code forcing everyone to follow the same policies, Bitcoin ensures all honest participants agree on which version of the notebook is correct. That shared agreement is Bitcoin’s consensus.

[J. Barron DeJong]

Here ya go boss.

Nodes:
These are like librarians who keep a copy of the entire Bitcoin transaction history (the blockchain) on their computers. They run Bitcoin software—code you can find at
https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin. When a new block (a batch of transactions) is announced, each node checks it against the rules (like making sure no one spends coins twice and that transactions follow the code’s rules). If a block fails the rules, nodes ignore it. So if someone tries writing “Alice gives Bob 10 coins” when Alice doesn’t have them, that page gets tossed out.

https://bitnodes.io/

Miners:
Imagine these as puzzle-solvers who compete to add a new page (block) to the notebook. To propose a new block, a miner puts together a bunch of valid transactions and then tries to solve a math puzzle (finding a special number called a “nonce” that makes the block’s digital fingerprint, called a hash, look a certain way). The math puzzle is basically guessing billions of times until they find a winner.

Why do miners bother? If they solve the puzzle first, they win some new bitcoins as a reward—like getting free candy for adding a correct page. If they try to cheat, nodes reject their block, and they end up with nothing. So it’s not worth being sneaky.

Consensus Rules in the Code:
The Bitcoin codebase (mostly in C++) defines the rules for what a valid block or transaction looks like. Anyone can read and run this code. These consensus rules don’t change easily, because everyone must update their software. If someone tries to rewrite the code to allow printing free bitcoins for themselves, honest nodes refuse their blocks. In other words, the code has a strict dress code: you dress wrong (cheat), you’re not allowed in.

The Result:
Through the interplay of nodes checking rules, miners working hard for rewards, and the code forcing everyone to follow the same policies, Bitcoin ensures all honest participants agree on which version of the notebook is correct. That shared agreement is Bitcoin’s consensus.

Sir, the question was ‘what percentage of people are involved?’.

[stalefish3169]

Ho Lee Fuck. That video is a mess.

We’re going to buy and hold bitcoin. No, we’re going to to tie the value of the dollar to Bitcoin, a new Bitcoin standard dollar. No we’re going to buy a million bitcoin and in a couple years it would be worth enough to pay off half the National debt.

Do you actually watch that and nod your head in agreement?

The SR is NOT my idea. How many fucking times do I have to say that? I am not responsible for what anyone says about it. Jesus.

However, more countries and states will continue to adopt it over time, despite all your crying.

The thing is we could quite easily get ourselves back into a sustainable fiscal path thru a mix of spending cuts and tax increases (mostly tax increases).

It’s not a spiral as that word is normally used. We don’t HAVE to keep borrowing more to pay off the bills that come due, we could actually just pay them with the some of the wealth Americans have.

OMG dude, you are delusional AF if you think the US is going to pay down 36T in debt. You're worse than Christine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrkxkBSvOUg

[J. Barron DeJong]

It’s just fantastic that the guys who are despondent about the wealth concentration in America advocate for an asset where 0.01% of wallets hold 60% of the supply.

[stalefish3169]

Sir, the question was ‘what percentage of people are involved?’.

Sir, the question as asked made about as much sense as you have, which is fucking zero. I defended my statement that BTC bigger than one person or political party. Asking "number of people involved" is nonsensical.

I knew when I got back after 100k you guys would be losing your shit, but you're really outdoing yourselves.

[stalefish3169]

It’s just fantastic that the guys who are despondent about the wealth concentration in America advocate for an asset where 0.01% of wallets hold 60% of the supply.

Almost everyone is free to buy BTC at anytime. Way less than 0.01% of people get to print free money that they give to their friends.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lK_rYS8L3kI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZN4vmZSPkFQ

[J. Barron DeJong]

The SR is NOT my idea. How many fucking times do I have to say that? I am not responsible for what anyone says about it. Jesus.

However, more countries and states will continue to adopt it over time, despite all your crying.



OMG dude, you are delusional AF if you think the US is going to pay down 36T in debt. You're worse than Christine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrkxkBSvOUg

Current debt/gdp is about 25% higher than post WWII. We paid that down pretty rapidly:



But also, it doesn’t have to be completely paid down, it should be paid down somewhat and stabilized.

Regarding a strategic reserve, you originally said you hadn’t looked into it to form an opinion, then said you didn’t necessarily think it was bullshit, then said we’d be at a competitive disadvantage if we didn’t have one.

I’m responding to what you’ve been saying.

[stalefish3169]

Current debt/gdp is about 25% higher than post WWII. We paid that down pretty rapidly:



But also, it doesn’t have to be completely paid down, it should be paid down somewhat and stabilized.

Regarding a strategic reserve, you originally said you hadn’t looked into it to form an opinion, then said you didn’t necessarily think it was bullshit, then said we’d be at a competitive disadvantage if we didn’t have one.

I’m responding to what you’ve been saying.

I'm speaking from a very high-level and you're trying to nitpick. Bitcoin is here for the foreseeable future. You lost. Get over it.

You're really going to try make a comparison between the beginning of the post WWII American World Order when the USD became the world reserve currency and now? Just stop dude. You need to touch grass, not keep smoking it.

Ignoring a potential BTC SR scenario, the thing that's likeliest to happen is that the US inflation will be allowed to run hot to inflate the debt away and long bond holders are going to get REKT. We're already seeing signs of this as mortgage rates went up after the fed starting its cutting cycle. Savy investors know that the debt is not gonna get paid off. Though obviously different, Israel in the 1980s is a somewhat similar possible scenario...just inflate the debt away.

[The Nuclear Option]

Oh I understand ,to a certain degree, how the blockchain tech works. I dont have a quibble necessarily with blockchain tech, if they were able to increase the efficiency such that it wasnt a waste if electricty.

What my questions are about are why bitcoin, backed by nothing more than a tiny percentage of people who are computer programmers and vested in making wealth from thin air is either a good thing or actually not a downright bad thing.

Maybe all I’m saying is that Bitcoin is bullshit because it doesnt in effect actually serve any purpose other than for speculative growth.

Perhaps Blockchain concepts can and will be beneficial if constructed to actually do something useful and efficiently.

1) Peg the thing to the dollar+ inflation so that it cannot be eroded by $inflation. $1 today = $1 RealCoin. When more are bought, more are created but mathematically neither to inflate or devalue the RealCoin. Inflation of 3%? It’s now worth $1.03 Protect against inflation or “printing of money” while not making the price of the Coin go up. Then it would protect against inflation protection and serve as a good “coin” for spending. The Hitoshi model only causes prices of the coin ti increase as people get into it. Why would you spend $50 in bitcoin if it’s worth $75 tomorrow?. That just causes speculators to be it’s main buyer. Almost no one uses it to buy anything.

2) tie the thing to real assets. Yeah it can go up if the basket of assets goes up. Then it could ge an asset that could go up at the same time as being spendable.

But let’s face it. The only reason that most bT ers like it is for the opportunity for crazy speculative growth. Neither of my ideas, although more likely to provide actual public good in their actual function would be able to grow from $100 to $100,000 in 15 years.

Of course as it is that means it could (I might say should) go back down to $100. And why is that good foranyone other than those who cash in from the “greater fool” by selling at $100K?

Here ya go boss.

Nodes:
These are like librarians who keep a copy of the entire Bitcoin transaction history (the blockchain) on their computers. They run Bitcoin software—code you can find at
https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin. When a new block (a batch of transactions) is announced, each node checks it against the rules (like making sure no one spends coins twice and that transactions follow the code’s rules). If a block fails the rules, nodes ignore it. So if someone tries writing “Alice gives Bob 10 coins” when Alice doesn’t have them, that page gets tossed out.

https://bitnodes.io/

Miners:
Imagine these as puzzle-solvers who compete to add a new page (block) to the notebook. To propose a new block, a miner puts together a bunch of valid transactions and then tries to solve a math puzzle (finding a special number called a “nonce” that makes the block’s digital fingerprint, called a hash, look a certain way). The math puzzle is basically guessing billions of times until they find a winner.

Why do miners bother? If they solve the puzzle first, they win some new bitcoins as a reward—like getting free candy for adding a correct page. If they try to cheat, nodes reject their block, and they end up with nothing. So it’s not worth being sneaky.

Consensus Rules in the Code:
The Bitcoin codebase (mostly in C++) defines the rules for what a valid block or transaction looks like. Anyone can read and run this code. These consensus rules don’t change easily, because everyone must update their software. If someone tries to rewrite the code to allow printing free bitcoins for themselves, honest nodes refuse their blocks. In other words, the code has a strict dress code: you dress wrong (cheat), you’re not allowed in.

The Result:
Through the interplay of nodes checking rules, miners working hard for rewards, and the code forcing everyone to follow the same policies, Bitcoin ensures all honest participants agree on which version of the notebook is correct. That shared agreement is Bitcoin’s consensus.

[The Nuclear Option]

I am free to cash out my entire net worth and burn it in a giant pile. So what? Freedom to do one thing is irrelevant to another .Your point is moot.

Almost everyone is free to buy BTC at anytime. Way less than 0.01% of people get to print free money that they give to their friends.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lK_rYS8L3kI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZN4vmZSPkFQ

[The Nuclear Option]

A troll is somewhat who challenges your beliefs and asks questions that you have no answers to?

TNO is the best troll in a while. Kudos

[stalefish3169]

Oh I understand ,to a certain degree, how the blockchain tech works. I dont have a quibble necessarily with blockchain tech, if they were able to increase the efficiency such that it wasnt a waste if electricty.

What my questions are about are why bitcoin, backed by nothing more than a tiny percentage of people who are computer programmers and vested in making wealth from thin air is either a good thing or actually not a downright bad thing.

Maybe all I’m saying is that Bitcoin is bullshit because it doesnt in effect actually serve any purpose other than for speculative growth.

Perhaps Blockchain concepts can and will be beneficial if constructed to actually do something useful and efficiently.

1) Peg the thing to the dollar+ inflation so that it cannot be eroded by $inflation. $1 today = $1 RealCoin. When more are bought, more are created but mathematically neither to inflate or devalue the RealCoin. Inflation of 3%? It’s now worth $1.03 Protect against inflation or “printing of money” while not making the price of the Coin go up. Then it would protect against inflation protection and serve as a good “coin” for spending. The Hitoshi model only causes prices of the coin ti increase as people get into it. Why would you spend $50 in bitcoin if it’s worth $75 tomorrow?. That just causes speculators to be it’s main buyer. Almost no one uses it to buy anything.

2) tie the thing to real assets. Yeah it can go up if the basket of assets goes up. Then it could ge an asset that could go up at the same time as being spendable.

But let’s face it. The only reason that most bT ers like it is for the opportunity for crazy speculative growth. Neither of my ideas, although more likely to provide actual public good in their actual function would be able to grow from $100 to $100,000 in 15 years.

Of course as it is that means it could (I might say should) go back down to $100. And why is that good foranyone other than those who cash in from the “greater fool” by selling at $100K?

What are dollars backed by besides faith in the government? Do you feel good about someone from the fed going on TV saying there is an infinite amount of money at the fed? How much are your dollars worth when the denominator is infinity?

"Public trust in government near historic lows"

https://www.pewresearch.org/politics...ent-1958-2024/

[The Nuclear Option]

If the motivation behind BTC were actually primarily to simply protect against devaluation/inflation from Govt spending/debt then the algorithm would use that as a basis of the calculation of what a BTC is worth, including increasing the supply if needed.

Satoshi and the tiny number of people who actually have the majority of the BTC knew and know that the only way the math works is: the price will go up and up. As long as they mostly HODL.

They are the real boss. If one of these “whales” decides to sell any significant quantity then the price will collapse.

You think that it’s decentralized, au contraire. BTC is very centralized in the hands of those who own 60%. They are your overlords. And you trust them, why exactly? Who are they? Yoi have no idea. You dont trust the Govt so you put your trust in some anonymous guys.

What are dollars backed by besides faith in the government? Do you feel good about someone from the fed going on TV saying there is an infinite amount of money at the fed? How much are your dollars worth when the denominator is infinity?

"Public trust in government near historic lows"

https://www.pewresearch.org/politics...ent-1958-2024/

[stalefish3169]

If the motivation behind BTC were actually primarily to simply protect against devaluation/inflation from Govt spending/debt then the algorithm would use that as a basis of the calculation of what a BTC is worth, including increasing the supply if needed.

Satoshi and the tiny number of people who actually have the majority of the BTC knew and know that the only way the math works is: the price will go up and up. As long as they mostly HODL.

They are the real boss. If one of these “whales” decides to sell any significant quantity then the price will collapse.

You think that it’s decentralized, au contraire. BTC is very centralized in the hands of those who own 60%. They are your overlords. And you trust them, why exactly? Who are they? Yoi have no idea. You dont trust the Govt so you put your trust in some anonymous guys.

Satoshi wrote this, "The root problem with conventional currency is all the trust that's required to make it work. The central bank must be trusted not to debase the currency, but the history of fiat currencies is full of breaches of that trust." So obviously he was thinking at least somewhat about devaluation. But sure, make up your own narrative if you want.

Wealth inequality is not unique to BTC either, brosef. The bottom 50% of the population owns 2.5% of the wealth.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...total%20wealth.

The cool thing about BTC is that people can opt in if they want. An extremely small number of unelected and unaccountable people get to decide when the money printer goes BRRRRRRR. I have no say in that. I surmise you don't either. Skiing is a rich person's sport. Most of the people posting on this board are affluent and own assets, so inflation isn't as harmful to them. However, for the majority of people, they work hard at their shit jobs, and then they get fucked over when Jamie Dimon calls in saying he needs another 200 billion (yes, I know that's not exactly how it happens, but I'm not far off).