Utah Search and Rescue Bill

[old goat]

^^^ Not really possible if the ledge is on a more or less vertical cliff face If the ‘ledge’ was on a fairly sloped face, then maybe…

I’ve spent a fair amount of time working with helicopters.

Yeah, it wasn't a vertical face. And I assume the guy was roped in, but I didn't ask.

This discussion got me rewatching the video of the S Vietnamese pilot who hovered over a USN destroyer while his wife threw the kids out and then jumped, then flew off a short distance, hovered, managed to keep the helicopter stable while he stripped off his boots and flight suit, rolled the helicopter away from the ship to keep the rotor parts from hitting the ship as they hit the water and then bailed out at the last second. He survived to join his family on board. Apparently all of that was hard to do. Looks easy in the movies.

Apparently my grandson is super into reading about climbing and especially helicopter rescues. He's 2 1/2. Next month it'll be something else.

[stealurface831]

This discussion got me rewatching the video of the S Vietnamese pilot who hovered over a USN destroyer while his wife threw the kids out and then jumped, then flew off a short distance, hovered, managed to keep the helicopter stable while he stripped off his boots and flight suit, rolled the helicopter away from the ship to keep the rotor parts from hitting the ship as they hit the water and then bailed out at the last second. He survived to join his family on board. Apparently all of that was hard to do. Looks easy in the movies.

we're gonna need a link for that.

[old goat]

Do they teach about the Vietnam War in school these days, young un?

[claymond]

Do they teach about the Vietnam War in school these days, young un?

How had I never heard of that? Incredible

[TBS]

I talked to a guy who was involved in a rescue in the Winds. He stood with one foot on a ledge and one foot on the skid while the pilot kept the helicopter tilted away enough to keep the rotors from hitting. Doesn't seem possible but I know nothing about helicopters.

The OR Air Guard wing out of PDX does some precarious rescues



They’ve also had a near catastrophe

[m2711c]

dude didn't even know where he was going... just headed out to sea and hoped.

[summit]

Mountain Rescue accidents are highly correlated with use of helicopters.

We dyon't charge for the FD

You better believe the Fire Department will charge under certain circumstances, such as out of their taxing district or sometimes if you just live outside of the district.

As far as the argument that paying will keep people from calling for help, I would counter that knowing you can get a free rescue makes people take more chances.

Probably minimally so. People I've rescued didn't typically assume they are going to need a rescue when making their decisions.

[old goat]

How had I never heard of that? Incredible

You're too young? Like stealurface?

Friend of mine and his partner were stuck in a blizzard on Marcus Baker for 10 days. His wife finally convinced a heli pilot to go get him--if you know Diane you'd realize he was less worried about flying a storm than of having to deal with her every day.

[BCMtnHound]

Probably minimally so. People I've rescued didn't typically assume they are going to need a rescue when making their decisions.

Like

In my early bush work days, I’ve been dropped off at or above treeline with the heli toed in. Clean slopes about 60%, usually on late season snow. We were working down and walking out, and local clouds/valley inversions made good landing choices scarce. OSH would frown on such practices now.

[claymond]

You're too young? Like stealurface?

Friend of mine and his partner were stuck in a blizzard on Marcus Baker for 10 days. His wife finally convinced a heli pilot to go get him--if you know Diane you'd realize he was less worried about flying a storm than of having to deal with her every day.

I'm 32, I don't remember learning about Vietnam in depth at school.

On the topic of badass shit in Chinooks, this podcast series about the entrapment and evacuation of hundreds of civilians when the Creek Fire blew up is worth a listen. Episode 5 goes in depth with a pilot but all the episodes are good.

https://www.npr.org/podcasts/1034210...igin=serp_auto

[XXX-er]

Like

In my early bush work days, I’ve been dropped off at or above treeline with the heli toed in. Clean slopes about 60%, usually on late season snow. We were working down and walking out, and local clouds/valley inversions made good landing choices scarce. OSH would frown on such practices now.

where was that ^^ I thot it was all just awesume natural glades but a Kamloops buddy of mine told us of cutting the ski runs at a heli op in I think Blue river, drop half the crew tr the top and half at mid run

[BCMtnHound]

where was that ^^ I thot it was all just awesume natural glades but a Kamloops buddy of mine told us of cutting the ski runs at a heli op in I think Blue river, drop half the crew tr the top and half at mid run

East and west Kootenays. Back when there were still a few valleys that didn’t have a mainline road yet built. Not many of those anymore. Had a buddy that gladed for CMH, he had good stories of being dropped and picked up in interesting landing spots.

[fomofo]

An Oregon cyclist who was struck by an ambulance that made a right turn into him — fracturing his nose and leaving him with scrapes and other injuries across his body — has filed a $997,000 lawsuit against the ambulance provider after it scooped him up, drove him to the hospital and then billed him for the service, according to the suit.

https://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-n...suit-says.html

[old goat]

One of my pet peeves is people who make right turns from the through traffic lane on streets with parking, bike lanes etc. It's wrong and in California illegal all the time but especially dangerous for cyclists. If you can't wait a moment to let the cyclist go past at least turn from as close to the edge of pavement as possible so the cyclist can pass on the left or at least stop and not get hit.

[fomofo]

S&R Pros weigh in with comments, mention this ciip is commonly used in training.

Yow!!

[Meadow Skipper]

S&R Pros weigh in with comments, mention this ciip is commonly used in training.

Yow!!

Holy shit!

Wonder why they didn’t just land and load her directly in.

[XXX-er]

I'm looking at that and thinking when the basket stops it will have to rapidly unwind in the opposite direction so they would have to wait till it stops to land and let the line un wind

[Meadow Skipper]

^ The hooks have a 360 degree swivel on them, to prevent just what you’re pointing out.

[summit]

That's old... like prepandemic.

Helicopters are dangerous - hoists more so.
Land if safe instead hoisting. (looked possible)
Use a tag line when hoisting if possible. (definitely possible)
Do not let go of the tag line until the hoist operator has the litter unless the ground tech is at risk.
Don't expose patients who are being flown for head injury to excessive g-forces.

(CHRT ground trained and I work with CONG hoist techs)

I'll refrain from commenting about fire and police departments doing mountain rescue. But that is AZ.

[Meadow Skipper]

I'll refrain from commenting about fire and police departments doing mountain rescue. But that is AZ.

10 or 15 years ago in the NM Sangre de Cristos a hiker got disoriented and “too tired” to hike out from a backpacking trip, and the NM State Police, without waiting for SAR that was on the way, went into the mountains to pick her up when it was late in the day and stormy. Long story short the helicopter crashed, killing the pilot and the hiker. Completely unnecessary to push the rescue operation like that.

https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/...ts/AAR1104.pdf

[XXX-er]

Back in the day some buddies had paddled a remote river in NW BC and were getting the Pickup out, 5 or 6 boats and paddlers need a ride

my buddy was 2nd load so on the ground watching, the pilot gets out & fiddles with the cargo net hookup but he is distracted and does NOT unhook, takes off with a load of kayaks AND paddlers seriously overloaded, he's not getting enough lift so goes for more forward speed hoping for more lift but instead hits a pile of logs with the boats on the line at high speed and the bird went down , fortunaley nobody was hurt bird was a writeoff and I think some of the bro's got new kayaks

I played hook guy a number of times flying fire wood/ construction supplies ect alwasy with that pilot who would often takeoff too heavy to hover " uh yeah put more in the net " until "uh maybe less this time " always very casual

[summit]

SAR who pays? Article today

https://www.summitdaily.com/opinion/...ch-and-rescue/

[old goat]

SAR who pays? Article today

https://www.summitdaily.com/opinion/...ch-and-rescue/

If SAR is an essential service in Colorado provided for free so that no one declines a needed resuce why isn't health care free for everyone as well. In the whole country for that matter. Same logic applies.

[summit]

If SAR is an essential service in Colorado provided for free so that no one declines a needed resuce why isn't health care free for everyone as well. In the whole country for that matter. Same logic applies.

The total number of SAR incidents for the entire state of CO for a whole YEAR is equal to the number of patients seen by 3 primary care providers per year. Or the number of SAR incidents is roughly the number of patients that visit one medium sized ER in a month. I don't really need to point out that there are over 150 ERs in CO that operate 12 months a year and ERs are only a small component of the healthcare system.

What I will point out is that single biggest SAR cost would be labor, if it weren't staffed almost exclusively by volunteer professional rescuers. There are enough SAR volunteer hours per year in CO to staff one major academic medical center.

tldr; total SAR costs are miniscule compared to healthcare costs both due to relative volume the fact that SAR is almost entirely volunteer.

[old goat]

tldr; total SAR costs are miniscule compared to healthcare costs both due to relative volume the fact that SAR is almost entirely volunteer.

Well obviously. But that doesn't change the logic--if something is essential the cost shouldn't matter, right?
Interesting that in Europe, where health care coverage of some sort is universal, people are expected to pay for SAR or carry insurance.