Do Gore-Tex 3L ski pants still exist?

[waxman]

Thanks everyone, this is helpful. Crazy how so many brands have shifted to outer thigh vents instead of inner. Must be easier/cheaper to produce. And those Norrona Lofoten pants are nuts - $950?? Holy hell. No thanks.

Call me biased as one of the first Norrona dealers in canuckistan but they could be one of the best pants you'll ever use. Their stuff is the bomb, it fits better and lasts longer that almost everything I've seen.
We carry Arc'teryx, Patagonia, TNF, Rossi and Black Diamond for reference.

[gregL]

I know bibs are all the rage these days, but there are still some geezers out there like me who prefer pants. It seems that virtually all manufacturers have shifted their high-end Gore-Tex 3L offerings from pants to bibs, obviously due to consumer demand. Who still makes Gore-Tex 3L ski pants? I'm having a helluva time finding any. (Yes, Patagonia makes the Untracked pants, but they don't have inner thigh venting, so they're a hard "no go" for me.) There are some options out there from Mammut and TNF that are built for mountaineering, but I'm looking for actual ski pants that feature a roomier fit, scuff guards, plenty of pockets, etc. And no, I'm not looking for alternative materials to Gore-Tex - I'm 100% drunk on the Gore-Tex Kool-Aid. Thanks gang.

I don't what people actually buy, but GORE-TEX garment producers are trying to pivot from ePTFE membranes (both regular and Pro) to ePE with a smaller environmental impact - Arc'teryx, for instance, has ePE fabric on the Sabre line now and only a few "hard core heritage" SKU's like the Alpha SV have old-school GORE-TEX Pro. I imagine they are going through sales numbers and discontinuing some ePTFE 3L models that don't really sell.

[rainy512day]

TREW makes 3L pants, though it’s not Gore-Tex. I wore them in a lot of conditions last year. They work great.

https://trewgear.com/collections/men...t-primo-outlet

[skis_the_trees]

I know you're not looking for Goretex alternatives but in classic internet forum style I will suggest something without Goretex.

Flylow makes pants that tick all your other boxes of "ski pants that feature a roomier fit, scuff guards, plenty of pockets, etc" and with a different brand 3L fabric.

10-15y ago I was only interested in Goretex shell jackets/pants and no other fabrics, but Goretex has changed (i.e. the DWR is better for the environment but not as durable) and the other fabrics have caught up; for mechanized skiing I don't think there is a difference in fabric performance. I just got new bibs this season and went with Flylow for price and feature set, essentially ignoring any difference between Goretex and the Flylow Intuitive 3L fabric.

[byates1]

Just got old school Arc'teryx pants on eBay like new for 170

[Marshal Olson]

If you are an XL, I just listed some Arc Sabre Gore Pro pants in gear swap w/ minimal use.

[XXX-er]

Duno about those other brands but a great thing about the deadbird stuff is that warranty is warranty, they don't care if you have the bill

A buddy got warranty on a shell left in her shop, it had a broken zipper and that powder cord around the bottom hem came off, if that heat sealed bottom hem lets go its an instant warranty job from what i understand

and BTW duck tape officialy voids warranty but they will probably just mention it and give you the replacement

[skis_the_trees]

They don't always give you the replacement, they will give you some calculated value which may certainly not replace your garment. I tried to warranty a GTX jacket and pants last year, both OG made in Canada - the good stuff. Seams failed on the garments but otherwise they were still working well (the zippers were only glued/bonded, not sewn, so they pulled apart when the glue got old. Arc refused to fix and gave me peanuts for the value because they were 10+ years old (but other than the seam failures, they were in great shape and still working well). Patagonia probably would have fixed my stuff instead.

[XXX-er]

I could add it has sounded like whomever does the arcterxy warranty in yurp trys to screw over the customer as if it is actulay their own money

but I have never had a probelm so I keep buying the stuff

[skisurfmirth]

Burton AK tusk bibs.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[dexterq20]

I know you're not looking for Goretex alternatives but in classic internet forum style I will suggest something without Goretex.

Flylow makes pants that tick all your other boxes of "ski pants that feature a roomier fit, scuff guards, plenty of pockets, etc" and with a different brand 3L fabric.

10-15y ago I was only interested in Goretex shell jackets/pants and no other fabrics, but Goretex has changed (i.e. the DWR is better for the environment but not as durable) and the other fabrics have caught up; for mechanized skiing I don't think there is a difference in fabric performance. I just got new bibs this season and went with Flylow for price and feature set, essentially ignoring any difference between Goretex and the Flylow Intuitive 3L fabric.

Thanks. I've owned a few Flylow pieces recently (including last year's Chemical pants and Lab Coat) and have been thoroughly unimpressed by the fit. All their stuff I've tried (especially their jackets) seems to be cut for short fat people. Not a fan.

[stuckathuntermtn]

I don't what people actually buy, but GORE-TEX garment producers are trying to pivot from ePTFE membranes (both regular and Pro) to ePE with a smaller environmental impact - Arc'teryx, for instance, has ePE fabric on the Sabre line now and only a few "hard core heritage" SKU's like the Alpha SV have old-school GORE-TEX Pro. I imagine they are going through sales numbers and discontinuing some ePTFE 3L models that don't really sell.

Interesting. Is there a meaningful difference for the end user?

[dexterq20]

Interesting. Is there a meaningful difference for the end user?

To be determined. If you're to believe the marketing from the major outerwear manufacturers, the answer is no. In reality... I don't think anyone really knows yet.

The change has been spurred by REI choosing to no longer sell products containing PFAS (aka Teflon, aka "forever chemicals") for environmental reasons. Last I checked, the deadline they set for this was January 2025, but this may have changed. Gore-Tex as we used to know it was essentially non-stick Teflon cookware in the form of a membrane sewn into clothing. Since Patagonia, TNF, Arc'teryx, etc. (and WL Gore, by extension) can't afford to lose REI's business, they've all been forced to develop and adopt a new, PFAS-free, environmentally-friendly version of Gore-Tex across their lines. Alternatively, some brands, such as Spyder, have chosen to stop using Gore-Tex altogether and instead have switched to alternative waterproof/breathable membranes.

[byates1]

Thanks. I've owned a few Flylow pieces recently (including last year's Chemical pants and Lab Coat) and have been thoroughly unimpressed by the fit. All their stuff I've tried (especially their jackets) seems to be cut for short fat people. Not a fan.

I too tried the chemical pant. I am short and fat and for real- weird cut. Just bought some gloves this am though. Cool company story

[oltrepiave]

i'm also a big fan of pants (way too hot for bibs where i live/ski).

I had the gravity and vertical 2/3L pants from peak performance, should be standard GTX pro. Since i'm a fan of those like XXXer you get nice horizontal-opening pockets (plus 2 standard vertical ones, i keep my beacon in one of those), fabric is decently sturdy, fit is comfy/roomy. Only thing you might not like is that vents are on the outside of the thighs (no net or lining). You also get the double option for cinched waist straps and standard belt loops.

used em a lot and i have to say they worked pretty well.

[comish]

Duno about those other brands but a great thing about the deadbird stuff is that warranty is warranty, they don't care if you have the bill

A buddy got warranty on a shell left in her shop, it had a broken zipper and that powder cord around the bottom hem came off, if that heat sealed bottom hem lets go its an instant warranty job from what i understand

and BTW duck tape officialy voids warranty but they will probably just mention it and give you the replacement

My experience w/ Arc warranty is less than great.

Had a shell that the bonded seams just fell apart making the jacket useless. They offered me 40% off retail of a new one. On another piece, I believe stinger pants which I loved, they gave me nothing. They weren't waterproof anymore and I got zilch. Not super impressed... In fact anyone want to trade anything for this 40% off retail credit I still have? Just nothing I want to pay that much $$$ for from Arc.

That is worse than credit for the past retail price of the garment which is what Marmot will offer. I have always been given that on Marmot with likely 6 claims over a 30yr period, assuming they don't have the item still in stock, which they will send you if they do. Example: If the retail price when new was $400 they give you $400 credit toward a new piece. Now usually the new piece is now $450 so you need to chip in the $50 or pool credit from multiple claims. Seems fair. Also had great experiences with Pataguchi as well.

To OP: I found some Elevenate 3L Gore Tex pants this summer on super sale that seem awesome. Pretty sure they are outer thigh vents, but to be fair, I think all my pants over the yrs have been outer thigh vents. Always seemed like they were more exposed/open to ventilate rather than stuck in between legs, but then again, I haven't had inner thigh vents so don't know.

They are getting harder to find...

[gregL]

Interesting. Is there a meaningful difference for the end user?

Word of mouth and limited lab testing that I've seen/heard indicates the new ePE 3L stuff is similarly waterproof as the old ePTFE stuff, but not as breathable as GORE-TEX Pro. For regular consumers, though, the end of the ePTFE membranes we've been using for decades is coming soon (kind of like non-Gripwalk recreational boots and effective C8 or C6 DWR solutions or fluoro waxes).

[CallMeAl]

The change has been spurred by REI choosing to no longer sell products containing PFAS

Gore and other manufacturers reacted to a California law banning the sale of PFAS in textiles, not to an REI store policy. Other states have similar laws in the pipeline too.

But here to +1 older Sabre pants, bibs and jackets.
And -1 Arc warranty

[stuckathuntermtn]

Word of mouth and limited lab testing that I've seen/heard indicates the new ePE 3L stuff is similarly waterproof as the old ePTFE stuff, but not as breathable as GORE-TEX Pro. For regular consumers, though, the end of the ePTFE membranes we've been using for decades is coming soon (kind of like non-Gripwalk recreational boots and effective C8 or C6 DWR solutions or fluoro waxes).

Feels a little like greenwashing since it's still plastic. Maybe they'll get the breathability better in a couple years.

[stuckathuntermtn]

Gore and other manufacturers reacted to a California law banning the sale of PFAS in textiles, not to an REI store policy. Other states have similar laws in the pipeline too.

But here to +1 older Sabre pants, bibs and jackets.
And -1 Arc warranty

Oh.

[skis_the_trees]

Thanks. I've owned a few Flylow pieces recently (including last year's Chemical pants and Lab Coat) and have been thoroughly unimpressed by the fit. All their stuff I've tried (especially their jackets) seems to be cut for short fat people. Not a fan.

That could certainly be true. The pants I got this year were my first Flylow item that isn't gloves/mitts, but I got medium tall size and are a good 2-3" longer inseam than normal mediums. They are certainly a bit more steezy but for inbounds it seems fine. For touring I certainly favor a trim euro fit.

[CTR]

Flylow does make the Chemical pant in tall sizes....large long fits me 200#, 6'2" well....my 34 waist a bit snug in large long FYI......Chet

[MarsB]

In the snowboard apparel world, Burton still makes the AK 3L Hover and Jones has the Shralpinist.

I've had 3 pairs of the Hovers over the past 18 years or so, Burton AK warranty is pretty solid. Replaced a 6 year old pair for me a few years back for a broken zipper, just had to provide original receipts. Had the Jones for 2 seasons, no issues.

[Hood26]

Bibs and pants both suck.

The answer is 1/2 bib, but alas

[Flippo]

Bibs and pants both suck.

The answer is 1/2 bib, but alas

Not gore Tex but Mammut haldigrad?