Home Remodel: Do, Don'ts, Advice

[Dantheman]

Not sure how we got from $450 sq/ft to $1000 sq/ft? With the land included in the cost (we got it 5 years ago for cheap) it comes in around $575 sq/ft. Canadian. Which is $422 USD sq/ft in todays exchange rate.

SoVT Joey posted that he thought you were getting a good deal at $450 because the norm was $750-1200 in his 'hood.

I definitely agree that yours is a good deal for a house like that, where it is, and including the land. Stoked for you, congrats!

Also, ZZZ is definitely paying a *lot* less than $800/mo on utilities.

[Core Shot]

They sell floor registers with built in dampers.

Otherwise yeah, just foil tape the opening. You’re not gonna die. The new microwave outlet, however might kill you. It really sucks having to fish new wires. The easiest would be a new box in the end of a base cabinet if that works. Otherwise run the wire on the back wall of a base cabinet and hack a hole for an old work box above the countertop and drill down through the base cabinet into the basement.

[Core Shot]

They sell floor registers with built in dampers.

Otherwise yeah, just foil tape the opening. You’re not gonna die. The new microwave outlet, however might kill you. It really sucks having to fish new wires. The easiest would be a new box in the end of a base cabinet if that works. Otherwise run the wire on the back wall of a base cabinet and hack a hole for an old work box above the countertop and drill down through the base cabinet into the basement.

[Falcon3]

Getting into tlr territory but...I was thinking that if I left the elbow and capped it, I could disassemble the rest and still be able to put it back if that became desirable in the future, without needing to involve an actual tin work guy.

I'm also assuming that it would be easier to take apart from beyond the elbow versus removing the elbow, but I've never tried either. If removing the elbow entirely isn't any harder, so much the better.

I realize that the flow dynamics would be affected, but it should still be better than what we've got going on now...right?

The non-hvac benefit of sealing the vent is that the dog has decided that the area rug is a reasonable substitute for the grass if he can't get outside. Not a big deal in general as it's a machine washable rug, but when it drips through into the floor register, no bueno. I was thinking I'd pull the floor register and put a piece of wood in its place (it'll look fine as long as the carpet is in place) to solve that issue, but blocking the heat closer to the source seemed like a good idea.

If it's relevant, we only use the forced hot air to supplement the primary system, which is a pellet boiler that can't quite keep up when it gets really cold.

Of course, thinking about actually removing the duct came about because I was in the basement trying to figure out how much of an ass pain it was going to be to run a dedicated circuit for the microwave so that we can actually run the microwave, toaster and electric tea kettle at the same time. That's now on tomorrow's agenda, because I've convinced myself the answer is "less of a pain versus continuing to remember not to run two devices on the same side of the kitchen."

Removing the round duct from the rectangular duct should be trivial, they're typically held in by bent metal tabs is all.

Go to the hardware store and get a 12x12" piece of galvanized sheet metal and some foil tape. Remove the round duct entirely and then just use self-tapping sheet metal screws to attach the flat piece to the square duct. Then tape the edges. You could also caulk/pookie it if you wanted to get fancy but good foil tape around the whole seam should be fine. It would be very easy in the future to re-attach the round duct if you go this route, just keep it in the corner of the basement somewhere.

[anotherVTskibum]

They sell floor registers with built in dampers.

Otherwise yeah, just foil tape the opening. You’re not gonna die. The new microwave outlet, however might kill you. It really sucks having to fish new wires. The easiest would be a new box in the end of a base cabinet if that works. Otherwise run the wire on the back wall of a base cabinet and hack a hole for an old work box above the countertop and drill down through the base cabinet into the basement.

Copy, appreciate all the duct feedback.

Yeah, I do IT for a living, so I'm aware that fishing the wire into place has a high likelihood of sucking. If I get lucky, the old telephone wire in about the same place was fished into the finished wall and doesn't have any attachment points inside the wall, making it a good candidate to become a pull string.

[zion zig zag]

Also, ZZZ is definitely paying a *lot* less than $800/mo on utilities.

Like a quarter of that. And I was working off the supposition that we were talking $1000/sf to reach passive energy level as I hadn’t read back far enough in the thread to get all the details. Not throwing shade at Stuntmonkey at all.

[::: :::]

You shouldn’t need $1k/sf to hit passive.

My only point in saying the $1k/sf figure wasn’t exotic is that there’s expensive and then there’s expensive.
There was a “simple” cabin I posted in the Zillow thread that was multimillion, mostly because it used high quality but somewhat “normal” materials and used high quality craftsman to install everything. Each corner was dialed; everything was just so. It wasn’t the material specs or the expansiveness of the structure that made it expensive; it was the care and craft of install + the best type of whatever mundane material they used.

[I Skied Bandini Mountain]

Getting into tlr territory but...I was thinking that if I left the elbow and capped it, I could disassemble the rest and still be able to put it back if that became desirable in the future, without needing to involve an actual tin work guy.

I'm also assuming that it would be easier to take apart from beyond the elbow versus removing the elbow, but I've never tried either. If removing the elbow entirely isn't any harder, so much the better.

I realize that the flow dynamics would be affected, but it should still be better than what we've got going on now...right?

The non-hvac benefit of sealing the vent is that the dog has decided that the area rug is a reasonable substitute for the grass if he can't get outside. Not a big deal in general as it's a machine washable rug, but when it drips through into the floor register, no bueno. I was thinking I'd pull the floor register and put a piece of wood in its place (it'll look fine as long as the carpet is in place) to solve that issue, but blocking the heat closer to the source seemed like a good idea.

If it's relevant, we only use the forced hot air to supplement the primary system, which is a pellet boiler that can't quite keep up when it gets really cold.

Of course, thinking about actually removing the duct came about because I was in the basement trying to figure out how much of an ass pain it was going to be to run a dedicated circuit for the microwave so that we can actually run the microwave, toaster and electric tea kettle at the same time. That's now on tomorrow's agenda, because I've convinced myself the answer is "less of a pain versus continuing to remember not to run two devices on the same side of the kitchen."

It will be easy to cap off, once you start taking it apart you'll figure it out. If you think you might need to reconnect later down the road, stash the elbow in the joists somewhere and you can always reconnect with some flex duct. While you're messing around, pull all that old fabric duct tape off and seal all the joints and takeoffs you can get at with sealant/mastic. Cheap way to increase efficiency and save money.

[RootSkier]

I assume that going passive eq/well above energy code isn't about saving money on utilities, right? It has to be from a desire to consume less and be more environmentally friendly? Because it seems like the expense would never pencil from a cost per month standpoint.

As ::: ::: noted, there is a lot more to it than utility cost numbers or ideas about being environmentally friendly.

A really well-insulated and detailed home is going to be quieter, more comfortable, and more likely than not, if you have a builder that cares about building science, the other details are probably going to be more well done, too. I know that the best looking homes being built in my town right now are done by a contractor that almost exclusively does double 2x4 walls, careful air sealing (though they appear to have switched from Zip sheathing to taped CDX...maybe because CDX is back in the realm of reasonable prices at this point), and that advertises for carpenters who care and want to learn more about building science.

Those homes also universally have great HVAC and HREV systems, which is huge when you live in a valley that gets filled with smoke for weeks or months at a time.

Not to mention the resale value.

tl:dr It's about a lot more than "sAvinG thE wHaLeS"

[Stuntmonkey]

Oh yeah, building science is something that most builders know about but can’t justify the additional labour and material costs to the average client. If there’s an allowance for it, it’s incredibly simple to get something like 75% increase in efficiency over a normal house.

My day to day is not engineering any longer but I’ve gone down the rabbit hole really deep on building science. I’ve got the absolute bare minimum for thermal bridges, everything is air sealed to the point where my mechanical designer had to spec another make up air unit just for the range hood lol.

But most people don’t care, and don’t understand. Once municipalities start mandating it then people will educate themselves and expect it.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[jackattack]

Oh yeah, building science is something that most builders know about but can’t justify the additional labour and material costs to the average client. If there’s an allowance for it, it’s incredibly simple to get something like 75% increase in efficiency over a normal house.

My day to day is not engineering any longer but I’ve gone down the rabbit hole really deep on building science. I’ve got the absolute bare minimum for thermal bridges, everything is air sealed to the point where my mechanical designer had to spec another make up air unit just for the range hood lol.

But most people don’t care, and don’t understand. Once municipalities start mandating it then people will educate themselves and expect it.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

I'm interested in learning more, with the hopes of accomplishing something similar down the line. Any rabbit holes you recommend?

[wendigo]

I'm interested in learning more, with the hopes of accomplishing something similar down the line. Any rabbit holes you recommend?

building science
green building

seem like good starting points

[old goat]

For the most part, energy efficiency is justified by the cost savings. Even the California's standards require that energy regulations pencil out. Unfortunately that approach will never solve climate change. We can't expect people to voluntarily spend on energy effciency that doesn't pay for itself or takes decades to pay off. We have to subsidize the cost so that every energy efficiency project does pay off. The Biden law was a start.

[::: :::]

I'm interested in learning more, with the hopes of accomplishing something similar down the line. Any rabbit holes you recommend?

in addition to wendigo's links

Pretty Good House - https://www.prettygoodhouse.org/
The hardcopy book is worthwhile IMHO


Passive House US - https://www.phius.org/

Fine Homebuilding is big into high performance building [& partner site to GBA] https://www.finehomebuilding.com/
but you'll find both are paywall for the deeper reads

[skaredshtles]

For the most part, energy efficiency is justified by the cost savings. Even the California's standards require that energy regulations pencil out. Unfortunately that approach will never solve climate change. We can't expect people to voluntarily spend on energy effciency that doesn't pay for itself or takes decades to pay off. We have to subsidize the cost so that every energy efficiency project does pay off. The Biden law was a start.

So much this.

[XXX-er]

IME throing some more insulation in the attic for R50 and buying a new HE furnace cut the gas bill in half and payed off really quick

and it was all done on federal & provincial grants so well under 5 yrs

[Stuntmonkey]

I'm interested in learning more, with the hopes of accomplishing something similar down the line. Any rabbit holes you recommend?

On top of everything already posted you can pick up a ton of information from builders and architects on instagram and youtube.

- Building Science Fight Club
- Matt Risinger (some love him, some hate him)
- https://buildshownetwork.com/ - Matts group of fellow high performance builders
- ASIRI Designs


I'll add some more in once I remember

[anotherVTskibum]

As ::: ::: noted, there is a lot more to it than utility cost numbers or ideas about being environmentally friendly.

A really well-insulated and detailed home is going to be quieter, more comfortable, and more likely than not, if you have a builder that cares about building science, the other details are probably going to be more well done, too.
...
tl:dr It's about a lot more than "sAvinG thE wHaLeS"

Living in a 200+-year-old house, with single pane windows and old cellulose insulation (or at least so we've been told), the difference from even a moderately well put together and sealed house is huge.

My ex and I had our screened porch converted to a four-season space. They did use ZIP, plus I helped spec the windows (pushed for a slightly higher cost that significantly improved efficiency) and did a bunch of spraying gaps before we had the walls closed up, plus we shoved as many batts as we could above the ceiling. The end result was the quietest room in the house despite being closest to the road.

I'd be ecstatic if I could wave a wand and make the same level of insulation and weather sealing happen to this house, or even the three sides generally exposed to traffic noise. The reality is that is probably a $100k project and there's other stuff that's higher priority, plus at some point it's seriously diminishing returns.

[anotherVTskibum]

Copy, appreciate all the duct feedback.

Yeah, I do IT for a living, so I'm aware that fishing the wire into place has a high likelihood of sucking. If I get lucky, the old telephone wire in about the same place was fished into the finished wall and doesn't have any attachment points inside the wall, making it a good candidate to become a pull string.

So, much to no one's surprise, the path from the basement into the wall taken by the phone line wasn't big though to shove a 12-gauge feed through, and I ended up catching and breaking the phone wire trying to enlarge the hole.

Much to my surprise, not only was I able to fit the new wire next to an existing one, but feeding it through by hand got it to go far enough into the wall that I could grab it from the new outlet hole.

I also found that the leftover wire I was using wasn't quite long enough to make it to the panel, but the no longer used feed for the old well pump was available (the other half is in use on a low-draw circuit, so I think the shared neutral should be fine) and I didn't even need to touch the panel.

And yes, if you look closely, I'm waiting on a new faceplate for the older fixture because I pulled the old two pronged outlet given that circuit has what seems to be most of the first-floor lighting on it and is mostly cloth insulated stuff.

So it took me way longer than it really should have, I have another project lined up re ductwork, but the microwave, electric tea kettle, and toaster can all be run simultaneously.

[old goat]

What kind of wiring were they using 200 years ago?

[fastfred]

You shouldn’t need $1k/sf to hit passive.

My only point in saying the $1k/sf figure wasn’t exotic is that there’s expensive and then there’s expensive.
There was a “simple” cabin I posted in the Zillow thread that was multimillion, mostly because it used high quality but somewhat “normal” materials and used high quality craftsman to install everything. Each corner was dialed; everything was just so. It wasn’t the material specs or the expansiveness of the structure that made it expensive; it was the care and craft of install + the best type of whatever mundane material they used.

I'm just adding to the conversation

sq ft price isn't specific to any home
contractor costs can go from dirt cheap to outrageous I don't wake up for anything less than 20% some guys do just fine with a 14% mark up

labor rates vary greatly from location to location

finishes are the biggest driver
cheap vinyl windows (which I think are ok) to shitty ass over priced sierra pacific windows
do you want a toilet seat that tickles your asshole how many shower heads do you want? Do you need 4k in glass for your primary shower surround?

A modular can still be had for less than $200 sq ft
here high end new builds are starting around $1200 sq ft
I price full home remodels tear down to drywall and start over at $150.00 sq ft to start

the biggest driver is the contractor you choose you can choose cheap or you can choose expensive

for small jobs like a bathroom most people balk and go with the cheap guy for jobs over 500k most people are looking for a button down shirt business man kind of guy

the funny thing is I'm seeing tons of lots all over colorado that people bought started getting build quotes and freaked the fuck out and are now selling the lot with plans LOL

[Foggy_Goggles]

True cost control is poorly understood. Homeowner has control of scope and finish schedule. No I'm not getting 3 plumbing bids or spending a day of my time price shopping your fixtures.

Look at how a contractor builds there own home. That's the best way to understand the game. And that applies to building science/energy code etc. It's a choice nothing more nothing less.

My house is 15years old slab on grade, natural gas, forced hot air, batt insulation, mid grade windows. I live in one of the coldest valleys in the US and my utility bills, yearly average, are about 8 taco plates, a nice women's hair, 2 pairs on mid grade jeans, a couple of bags on groceries, a quarter of my healthcare premium, less than 2 tanks of gas.

So yeah no. Don't greenwash residentail construction and provide a subsidy to a second homeowner that runs the heat, the patio fireplace the constant icemaker, the towel heater, the heated driveway all at the same time with the 20' slider open.

[XXX-er]

finishes are the biggest driver
cheap vinyl windows (which I think are ok) to shitty ass over priced sierra pacific windows LOL

I got original double pain windows which for the most part work ok but they are wood so I gotta get up on a ladder to paint them, I would be fine with Cheap vinyl windows thatI didnt have to paint which I will probably have to do at some point

[::: :::]

Foggy, your utility bill isn’t a reflection of your outdated insulation but of your cost of energy regionally
It’s a pretty good thing if both you and the heated driveway both improve your carbon profiles & build tighter

The average age of a home in the US is 40+ yrs. That means most of us are all living in substandard (building science wise) structures. Consequently, it also means we should be really trying to do better in the new structures we build because they will be around for awhile. The better we build the longer they can be beneficial to us. It’s a kind of futureproofing…

Re: window cost
Mrs ::: ::: once worked on an addition in Martha’s Vineyard where the owner wanted Zeluck windows to match the rest of the house. Zeluck is no longer in business (family run Brooklyn-based high end wood windows), but that window package for a 900sf structure + breezeway was just under $1m back in the late 90s.

[Foggy_Goggles]

True. But I rally against the smugness that ignores the impact of more expensive building methodology on affordability.

It's a large society challenge. Recycling anyone? We'd get somewhere if we put 5% of the effort into addressing the carbon impacts of the military industrial complex as we do consumer behavior.

Paper straws and tankless water heater are just a ruse to keep us fighting amongst ourselves. And yes, I don't let the faucet run when I'm brushing my teeth.

Sent from a 6 m/s face melting thermal