Attitudes of the uber-rich

[MultiVerse]

Disagree. A fixed rate mortgage is a contract with predefined terms. Most people buy fixed rate mortgages. An undetermined variable tax dependent on market conditions can be paid via escrow as part of a monthly mortgage payment but is not part of your mortgage contract. As a personal example on my 30 year fixed rate, 21 years ago, my taxes were 3.5% of my monthly mortgage payment including escrow. 21 years in, my taxes are 33.8% of my monthly mortgage payment including escrow. I don’t want anyone thinking I’m complaining. Merely pointing out the numbers. I can afford my mortgage. I don’t think it’s reasonable to tell someone they should project something like that.

Right, but Prop 13 changes the equation in California. Prop 13 mandates a property tax rate of 1 percent of assessed value and limits annual increases of assessed value not to exceed 2 percent per year, and properties are assessed at market value only at the time of sale. This means homeowners gain from remaining in the same house because their taxes are lower than they would be on a different house of the same value, in effect giving long tenure California homeowners property tax equity. Unlike 'comps' in other markets, the differential tax treatment makes real estate quantifiably more valuable to existing owners.

[J. Barron DeJong]

While she works remotely from Truckee


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What allowed us to move here was her getting a job in Reno asswipe.

[mcski]

I don’t see how that is really any different than a fix rate mortgage for people wanting a fixed future for expenses

And people don’t complain that it’s unfair that people purchasing a couple years back have better rates than current buyers.

The net benefit of retirees being able to stay in their long time homes has clearly been decided as a positive. And if need they can use equity for assisted living needs as well. How any of that is unfair to anyone is retarted. There are many tax inequities for the wealthy , but this isn’t on the top 10

[m2711c]

This is really fucking annoying.

fact.

facts usually are…


fact.

[yeahman]

facts usually are

You think so? I don't.

[Mazderati]

You do realize that retirees pay income tax on their pension/40xx, right?

Pension? What is a pension? Bringing up pensions as an example of parity. Out of touch. Young fucks pay income taxes and are still picking up the property tax subsidy tab.

[Conundrum]

Property taxes are viewed as a permanent second mortgage. A homeowner views property tax payments in their projections of affordability.

Right, but Prop 13 changes the equation in California. Prop 13 mandates a property tax rate of 1 percent of assessed value and limits annual increases of assessed value not to exceed 2 percent per year, and properties are assessed at market value only at the time of sale.

So Prop 13 gives a projection that a homeowner can accurately forecast long term affordability on their "permanent second mortgage" without regards to extreme market value fluctuations? That sounds nice.

Might sound weird to some but some people just buy a house to live in in a place they like and are not buying it for the equity or investment potential. And after paying taxes in a place for 20, 30, 40 years, I'd say it's okay to admit that they have funded far more operations and infrastructure of their fair city than someone that just moved there and pays a higher tax rate to enjoy what has been built. Again, where I live doesn't have like Prop 13 but I like the sounds of it.

Some people are not into a starter home, keeping up with the Joneses, going bigger, flipping a house or two, buying a rental to diversify portfolios, and then gaming the market and downsizing into retirement. Some people just want to buy a house and live in it without fear of being priced out even after "owning" the property free and clear. I know young people deserve a roof over their heads too. Taxing a long term homeowner out of their house doesn't sound any better than freeing up housing in high value markets so younger people can get theirs.

Plenty of other avenues of attack-P&Z code rewrites, financial litmus tests, limit institutional investments in primary residential homes, get a handle on STRs, tax the shit out of second, third and fourth homes, etc.

I'm sure there is a compromise somewhere. I'm fine paying the taxes I do as I've done fairly well in my career and can afford it. Far better than I was aiming or planned. If I ended up where I thought I would, I'd probably have to sell my house at some point if the increase trend continues at the rate I've seen since purchase.

You want fix tax funding, again, plenty of avenues. Generally, great ideas mentioned all over the place and not all to do with property.

[Meadow Skipper]

This is really fucking annoying.

fact.

facts usually are…


fact.

You think so? I don't.

Facts are simple and facts are straight
Facts are lazy and facts are late
Facts all come with points of view
Facts don't do what I want them to
Facts just twist the truth around
Facts are living turned inside out
Facts are getting the best of them
Facts are nothing on the face of things

-Talking Heads, “Crosseyed and Painless”

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Pension? What is a pension? Bringing up pensions as an example of parity. Out of touch. Young fucks pay income taxes and are still picking up the property tax subsidy tab.

I’m sure you’re aware that there are a lot of public employees out there that have pension plans and millions of retirees living on pensions.

I said nothing about parity, it was in response to your post about young people paying the way for older people.

I would guess that most income tax comes from people over 40, maybe even 50. According to this thread young people can’t buy houses, how are they subsidizing older folks again through property tax?

Maybe one you’ll get older and give everything to young folks.

Again, compared to most posters here, I’m lower middle class at best. I’m not some entitled boomer. I’ve worked hard my entire adult life for modest wages in healthcare and I just want to live out my life in relative comfort and stay in my house.



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[ötzi]

Pension? What is a pension? Bringing up pensions as an example of parity. Out of touch. Young fucks pay income taxes and are still picking up the property tax subsidy tab.

Right, and after a while they'll be old fucks benefitting from the same stuff they bitch about now and trying to protect it. And so it goes.

[Mazderati]

Hopefully not, probably so. The expectation is certainly set.

[zion zig zag]

The middle class arguing over the scraps. Just as intended. The young blame the old, the old blame the young, all part of the plan.

[Mazderati]

Wealth is concentrated at the top and it's the top expecting breaks on the backs of the rest.

[ötzi]

There's the real top - the .01% - and that's absolutely true about them. Then there's everybody else trying to make whatever size pile they've scraped together last them to the end.

[Foggy_Goggles]

This thread is hilarious. Life is hard but its harder for me. So give me mine. No gratitude. No self-awareness. This is why we get what we get. Raise the fuck outta property taxes but make sure to have carve outs to keep everyone happy. Don't worry about balancing the budget. Lets have another pizza party.

[TahoeJ]

The middle class arguing over the scraps. Just as intended. The young blame the old, the old blame the young, all part of the plan.

Nailed it. This is what OldGoat is getting at in several of his posts.

[MultiVerse]

So Prop 13 gives a projection that a homeowner can accurately forecast long term affordability on their "permanent second mortgage" without regards to extreme market value fluctuations? That sounds nice.

Right, it is nice for some but not for others. If folks want to prioritize one group over another in this instance it makes no difference to me. I'm simply describing the economics of the policy. As a result of Prop 13 housing prices and rents are higher in California while housing supply is lower than it would be under a different more neutral policy. All of that very clearly shows up in the data.

[old goat]

If you think it's bad here--the old eating the young. Norway--huge oil boon due to Ukraine invasion>boycott of Russian oil and gas. It's a state enterprise and it funds the retirement system. The olds of course want to drill drill drill while their grandkids will burn burn burn. And property values are shooting up.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

This thread is hilarious. Life is hard but its harder for me. So give me mine. No gratitude. No self-awareness. This is why we get what we get. Raise the fuck outta property taxes but make sure to have carve outs to keep everyone happy. Don't worry about balancing the budget. Lets have another pizza party.

Life hasn’t been hard for me, other than work, it’s actually been pretty easy to coast along. I’ve never asked for much and I’m grateful for everything that I have. I try not and live simply and I’m not much for material goods.

That said, I’d like to hold on to as much as I can. I think most people feel this. I don’t mind paying taxes, I just don’t want to be taxed out of my home. That’s more of a reality where I live given we don’t have a Prop 13 like tax break in WA.


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[ötzi]

I don't know if many places do this but in this state if you're 62 and have lived in your house 5 years you can delay paying property taxes until the title changes hands, for instance after you die. No reason to get taxed out of your house here.

[J. Barron DeJong]

I don't know if many places do this but in this state if you're 62 and have lived in your house 5 years you can delay paying property taxes until the title changes hands, for instance after you die. No reason to get taxed out of your house here.

Over 60 in WA you can defer your taxes 100% up to 80% of your home’s equity.

For younger ages it looks like you can defer up to half of your taxes, up to 40% of equity, but that’s subject to an income cap. Combined disposable income - not household, so not sure how they’re measuring that - of less than $57k.