Wasatch 23/24 Stoke Thread: Red Snake Coverage coming at you live from tgapp's fartba

[telefreewasatch]

I realize that you have forgotten more about snow than I’ll ever know but I hate the holier than thou expert shit that happens every incident. I bet you have some days that keyboard warriors would second guess.

Fuck you.
Holier than thou? You know how many dead people I've dug up and injured folks I've helped without passing judgement?
I'm gonna use my experience and knowledge of the range to promote safety to the local community.
Period.

Oh, and quit touching yourself while you think of me, ok?

[One (+) Sentence]

I inferred Nest’s post as: ‘It’s human nature to have lapses in judgement and hindsight is 20/20.’

[Foggy_Goggles]

Often the words of wisdom can feel a bit blunt and callous. But hey, if you want to have a E Fight I ain't gonna stop ya. My opinion is that once some base line of knowledge and experience is reach, actually making consistently conservative decision is the challenge.

It can be a high cost game we play. RIP snow sliders.

[D-Roc]

Oh, and quit touching yourself while you think of me, ok?

Well i feel exposed now...

[raisingarizona13]

Fuck you.
Holier than thou? You know how many dead people I've dug up and injured folks I've helped without passing judgement?
I'm gonna use my experience and knowledge of the range to promote safety to the local community.
Period.

Oh, and quit touching yourself while you think of me, ok?

I came here this morning to catch this response.

[ski_the_fraulein]

Man, if I wasn’t a few beers in and tired I’d probably drive up to Alta to witness the Aurora.


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Albion Basin time lapse shows it a bit. Chance for a repeat tonight apparently.


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[raisingarizona13]

Torque a few thick rails smoke some crystal grab 20 beers and head the fuck up there man!

Jesus titty fucking christ man.

[jsnowut]

Thanks for sharing your significant experience on this forum TFW. It is appreciated. Nest, some people have more experience than others. That's just a fact. And then some have survived longer than others. And that's a mix of luck and skill. But to have access to the experience of those that have been living and working in this field for decades and have survived is tremendously valuable. Cheers and stay safe and be happy!

[Gepeto]

Jesus titty fucking christ man.

ahh yeah

Torque a few thick rails smoke some crystal grab 20 beers and head the fuck up there man!

recovery will.b.a.bitch

Vibes to those of the lost and the recovery teams

[nest]

Eh. Whatever, I’ll take the loss. I also have had friends die in the mountains. In general it just feels like piling on mistakes that seem obvious in hindsight isn’t as constructive as the authors think it is. I know it pissed me off in the incidents I have been close to.

[Bunion 2020]

I think it is pretty important to recognize that according to the initial reports these were folks with experience and training at least one of which have been skiing the area and terrain like this for a damn long time. And the fickle bitch is they probably took the same precautions the day of the accident and in the past but this time the dice came up snake eyes. Skiing big steep terrain sometimes does not work out. Still important to discuss respectfully as has been done so far IMO.

Vibes and RIP

[Core Shot]

Sorry for thread drifting

Is it true that any snowbird season pass holder can get a free junior pass? Even if they aren’t related.

[Dantheman]

In general it just feels like piling on mistakes that seem obvious in hindsight isn’t as constructive as the authors think it is.

The dots may only connect in retrospect, but the people left behind should still connect them. The line between a sober analysis that allows the living to learn from the dead's mistakes and victim blaming is blurry and sometimes gets crossed, but it's preferable to the alternative.

Sorry for thread drifting

Is it true that any snowbird season pass holder can get a free junior pass? Even if they aren’t related.

Yes. Quite possibly the coolest deal going on in the industry. People love to complain about the cost of skiing these days, but $1300 for my kid and I to ski unlimited days at a world class resort is an amazing value.

[raisingarizona13]

Eh. Whatever, I’ll take the loss. I also have had friends die in the mountains. In general it just feels like piling on mistakes that seem obvious in hindsight isn’t as constructive as the authors think it is. I know it pissed me off in the incidents I have been close to.

I didn't read it that way at all. It wouldn't have been a mistake if they had pulled it off, no? It think TFW's matter of factly response comes from a lot of experience and from having seen his fair share of death up in those mountains. The "mistake" (I'm not actually calling it a mistake to be clear) may not be so apparent to a lot of folks and mentioning a safer approach could help people make better decisions.

I'll add this, as someone that had spent a pretty good amount of time fucking around in the back country and seeing my fair share of "mistakes" and "shit gone south" too (including making plenty of poor choices myself), a lot of us with a good amount of experience often have responses that sound insensitive or callous but that's not the case at all. It's kind of how I deal with seeing this stuff over and over again. No amount of **vibes or prayers sent will change shit and I'm not about to pretend that it will. No offense to those that post those responses though, I get it, you want to be respectful and we all deal with these kinds of incidents and death differently. We can't help the dead folks, it's too late for them but what we can do is try pass on the little bit of knowledge (done respectfully and appropriately of course) gained and if trying to do that hurts someones feelings then too damn bad.

[Yukonrider]

I really appreciate the discussions that incidents like this bring to the board here. Lots of different experiences and personalities always make the discussion an interesting read for less experienced folks like myself.

Thanks to all who contribute.

[lemonhead]

I was going to stay on the sidelines for this one and feel compelled to post. A couple of facts from me: First, I don't know the departed. Second, it sucks when people die. Third I've pulled dead people off the mountain (see second fact, it sucks). Fourth, I don't know TFW personally and know many who do.

My opinions: no one in their 20s is a very experienced backcount traveler. I thought I was back then and I now know how wrong I was. This may be not be a popular opinion. Often the best backcountry or avalanche I have ever heard came from patrol vets who said very little on the why. They would say things like "I'm not skiing that today..." Often first responders are very direct in their communication. Very few have I ever known to be judgemental. I think TFW post was informative and not judgemental. Spring hot pow in the Wasatch can be tricky. Center punching a slide path always carries a risk. Shit happens and good people sometimes run out of luck. I feel for all involved and all who knew those impacted.

Respectfully

[MagnificentUnicorn]

I wish they would leave the “experienced” part of these reports out. It really has no relevance, we know experts and people with more experience are statistically more likely to be involved in an avalanche. Experience also isn’t something that can be objectively measured, I would guess that most of the time it’s someone involved saying “wow, they were experienced “ without really thinking about what that means.

As far as putting three people on a slope with fresh snow in May, it doesn’t seem particularly conservative even if it’s accepted practice in the Wasatch and on that particular slope.

One of my mentors when I started ski touring was a retired snow safety and patrol director. He drilled into me to find the safest way up and avoid climbing your ski line if it’s even remotely possible that it could avalanche. Top down if possible or avoid the line.


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[sfotex]

Fuck:

https://utahavalanchecenter.org/avalanche/87487

[Benneke10]

From a mainstream media perspective I think “experienced” means they had skied in the backcountry before and were carrying rescue gear, differentiating them from resort skiers wandering out of gates somewhere like 9990, for example. They were young but accomplished skiers, however I don’t think that is relevant to the “experienced” label they were given in the news.

Of course every storm is different, but I’d say fresh snow in May is probably the safest of any month in general?

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Idk, I’m always worried about rapid warming in the spring with new snow. Even on cold days.


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[altacoup]

Fuck:

https://utahavalanchecenter.org/avalanche/87487

That would be one hell of a sobering experience. Throw on top getting the news about the drainage over and then hearing the control work. That’s an insane mind fuck. Very good write up.

[raisingarizona13]

That was quite a bit of new snow that came with a whole lotta wind.

[beaterdit]

^^^This is the bottom line right here. 30"+/- over three days with 50-70mph sustained winds. Lots of snow transported obviously, lots of thick new wind slabs.

[bobz]

I wish they would leave the “experienced” part of these reports out. It really has no relevance, we know experts and people with more experience are statistically more likely to be involved in an avalanche. Experience also isn’t something that can be objectively measured, I would guess that most of the time it’s someone involved saying “wow, they were experienced “ without really thinking about what that means.

This has long been a peeve of mine, particularly because media reports will label pretty much anybody as “experienced”. There was a fellow who skied into a blizzard at Donner, I think he didn’t know how to deal with deep snow once it accumulated or whatever, died of hypothermia while wearing jeans and a varsity jacket, and that guy was hailed as “experienced”.

[Touring_Sedan]

From a mainstream media perspective I think “experienced” means they had skied in the backcountry before and were carrying rescue gear, differentiating them from resort skiers wandering out of gates somewhere like 9990, for example. They were young but accomplished skiers, however I don’t think that is relevant to the “experienced” label they were given in the news.

Of course every storm is different, but I’d say fresh snow in May is probably the safest of any month in general?

FWIW the "media" doesn't apply the word experienced. That was relayed to us multiple times by the UAC forecaster who was at the staging area.

But you're right the "media" nor the general public understands the differences between "I ski in jeans" and "I carry an ice axe." There's probably only 2% of the population that does

Thanks - "The Media."