NERDING OUT- Mount Position, Cuff Angle, Binding Delta, and the like

[Marshal Olson]

yeah, easily in tennis shoes, barefoot, or ski boots if I leave the buckles wide open.

Is this something others can do in ski boots?

serious question… are you trying to solve an on-slope performance issue or more just trying to wrap your mind around it?

[shitskier]

Do you have a lot of space in your boots above your instep?

I don't think so. My lower buckles are usually somewhere mid range. A little looser on XT3s with zipfits. Sometimes I crank them on the Maestrales with thin liners when skiing steeps. I don't feel like I have any play here.

serious question… are you trying to solve an on-slope performance issue or more just trying to wrap your mind around it?

I mean, I'm always trying to ski less shitty! But I think this is more the latter. Wondering if I could access more range of motion if I could squat low on the skis without getting backseated. But yeah, no idea if this is common or something I should try to fix. Just started thinking about it after seeing things like this:


(https://skierlab.com/are-your-ski-bo...s-or-just-bad/

[Huskier]

^^ I don't have an answer but maybe try the "wtf boots" thread? Maybe they know

Quick question: How is forward lean measured? I'm going from a 12* boot to 17 but I'm skeptical of the manufacturers claimed lean. Is the fudge-able?

Second quick question: comparing ramp angle resulting from heel delta vs bsl, the formula is TAN-1(heel delta/BSL), correct? Is it directly additive to boot ramp?.

Answering my own question: They measure and ski 17*. Muy aggressive. And it's actually sin^-1 not tan^-1 since your boot sole runs on an incline between heel height and toe height, not just distance between the two (BSL mount)

[shitskier]

Answering my own question: They measure and ski 17*. Muy aggressive. And it's actually sin^-1 not tan^-1 since your boot sole runs on an incline between heel height and toe height, not just distance between the two (BSL mount)

Unless you have some stiletto heel delta, you will not be able to tell the difference between those two ramp angle formulas.

[J. Barron DeJong]

Unless you have some stiletto heel delta, you will not be able to tell the difference between those two ramp angle formulas.

Huskier skis in Louboutins!

Hmm… doesn’t have the same ring to it as saying someone skis in jeans.

[Pukesno]

[QUOTE=shitskier;7052815]I don't think so. My lower buckles are usually somewhere mid range. A little looser on XT3s with zipfits. Sometimes I crank them on the Maestrales with thin liners when skiing steeps. I don't feel like I have any play here.



Something to look at is if your ankle is flexing below the hinge point of the boot, the upper cuff will get locked up on the lower cog, pushing you into the backseat. To rule this out, try putting a temporary heel lift between the liner and boot board about a 1/4” thick to see if raising your ankle in the boot will line it up with the hinge point, and see if it helps you flex the boot and stay in balance.

[shitskier]

Something to look at is if your ankle is flexing below the hinge point of the boot, the upper cuff will get locked up on the lower cog, pushing you into the backseat. To rule this out, try putting a temporary heel lift between the liner and boot board about a 1/4” thick to see if raising your ankle in the boot will line it up with the hinge point, and see if it helps you flex the boot and stay in balance.

Thanks! I tried putting 5mm foam under the heels on my Maestrales, and it put me right on the edge of being able to balance in parallel squat. Separately, I also tried 10mm foam as a spoiler and that put me fully in balance. I'm not sure if the heel lift helped because of hinge point or just tilting me forward a bit. Not that it matters much, I guess I just have to decide how much to to heel lift and how much spoiler to add and try skiing like that.

[zion zig zag]

Thanks! I tried putting 5mm foam under the heels on my Maestrales, and it put me right on the edge of being able to balance in parallel squat. Separately, I also tried 10mm foam as a spoiler and that put me fully in balance. I'm not sure if the heel lift helped because of hinge point or just tilting me forward a bit. Not that it matters much, I guess I just have to decide how much to to heel lift and how much spoiler to add and try skiing like that.

I have a very limited understanding here but I think that although heel lift and forward lean may get you to the same place as far as being able to balance and squat, they effect your skiing differently. From my very unscientific testing, forward lean makes me feel athletic and balanced on skis and heel lift makes me feel backseat.

[shitskier]

I have a very limited understanding here but I think that although heel lift and forward lean may get you to the same place as far as being able to balance and squat, they effect your skiing differently. From my very unscientific testing, forward lean makes me feel athletic and balanced on skis and heel lift makes me feel backseat.

I think I roughly agree with this, so my thought is to fix it mostly with forward lean, as long as I still have ankle range of motion. If I have to use so much forward lean adjustment that I run out of ankle dorsiflexion, I'll have to use some heel lift.

I guess I'll see if it's important. Haven't ever skied a setup with enough lean/ramp to be able to squat in balance.

[Duffman]

I have a very limited understanding here but I think that although heel lift and forward lean may get you to the same place as far as being able to balance and squat, they effect your skiing differently. From my very unscientific testing, forward lean makes me feel athletic and balanced on skis and heel lift makes me feel backseat.

They both move your center of gravity, but fwd lean, closes the ankle joint and tensions the Achilles , while the heel lift opens the ankle joint and slackens the Achilles. I need a lift bc of tight ankle flexion so prefer a somewhat more upright and stiff boot to compensate.

In general if the boot board ramp works w your ankle flexibility , increase forward lean to get your weight balanced where you want it.

If that lean maxes out your ankle flexion too much, add a lift and then reassess forward lean .

[jesski]

allows for deeper tread patterns for better grip (for sure helpful beyond the parking lot) [...] If a brand has done it correctly, GripWalk should ski and feel no differently than a 2-component ISO 5355 grip pad.

so dumb question here.... I'm kind of bad at balance (though surprisingly okay at skiing nonetheless) and I find my plug boots slide all around on a slick floor or a long bootpack with rocks and ice in it. I don't know a lot about GW but is this a product that you could use to essentially add vibram-esque soles to your inbounds boots, like race boots?


edited to remove other long, rambling thoughts about my preferences for-
- upright boots (I have a large calf which influences this a lot)
- traditional mount points - despise "progressive" mounts as much as spoilers
- flatish bindings (because it just generally reduces all the variables you're considering across pairs of skis)

[jesski]

nice info, and good to see it all written down

other points:

boot ramp angle can also effect this, AND changes based on size. IE: a 22 boot has a steeper angle then a 29 boot. The toe and heel are the same height and differance, but this is spread over a shorter lenght of foot so more angle in smaller boots


A boots F lean might be the same, but a person with a bigger calf will be more forward in that same boot then someone with chicken legs as less calf to be pushed forward


A person with a greater ankle range of motion, can often use a further back mounting point, as they can flex farther, so move their own balance point a greater range from upright/neutral to the max forward possition.


Binding ramp angle is also anoher variable that plays into the skis mounting point. (I've skied the same ski, but changed the ramp angle and it skied VERY differently)

you're always so on point with the boot fitting comments. Where do you fit boots? Calgary? I wanna visit.

[skinipenem]

@mtnlion and others

Would y'all expand more about what factors in boot, binding, anatomy, and ski affect mount point?

I know we've touched on mount point in a few posts above.

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[Ørion]

so dumb question here.... I'm kind of bad at balance (though surprisingly okay at skiing nonetheless) and I find my plug boots slide all around on a slick floor or a long bootpack with rocks and ice in it. I don't know a lot about GW but is this a product that you could use to essentially add vibram-esque soles to your inbounds boots, like race boots?


edited to remove other long, rambling thoughts about my preferences for-
- upright boots (I have a large calf which influences this a lot)
- traditional mount points - despise "progressive" mounts as much as spoilers
- flatish bindings (because it just generally reduces all the variables you're considering across pairs of skis)

Not a bootfitter but as far as I understand one can't readily/easily add gripwalk soles to boots that weren't initially designed to take them.

Yaktrax does makes SkiTrax that greatly help walking around traction though. Think of them as essentially shoe soles that you can "click" into. Not as seamless but will save your hip on a slick floor.

[TheArbez]

so dumb question here.... I'm kind of bad at balance (though surprisingly okay at skiing nonetheless) and I find my plug boots slide all around on a slick floor or a long bootpack with rocks and ice in it. I don't know a lot about GW but is this a product that you could use to essentially add vibram-esque soles to your inbounds boots, like race boots?


edited to remove other long, rambling thoughts about my preferences for-
- upright boots (I have a large calf which influences this a lot)
- traditional mount points - despise "progressive" mounts as much as spoilers
- flatish bindings (because it just generally reduces all the variables you're considering across pairs of skis)

Presuming you haven't worn your soles down too much (and that you have solid plastic soles), there are Vibram lifter kits you can find. Head makes some:

https://www.skiallin.ca/products/hee...tor-wcr-vibram

But I'd bet you can put that on any plug.

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[jackattack]

F
What I was referring to specifically is the GripWalk AFD on the Look Pivot 15 and 18. It's 3.5mm higher than the alpine AFD with no change in the heel. The binding function doesn't require it, even with the rockered sole. I've never been able to get a straight answer from a rep why (and they don't care anyway). It makes the binding ski significantly differently, but it might jive better with very progressive mounts. I personally hate it.

I was already skiing pivots with shims under the toes prior to the GW AFD on "progressive" mounted skis in the quiver (Billy Goats, Mfree 108) because I felt like it allowed me to maintain a similar stance as traditional mounts and the GW sole really does walk better when you're in your boots working or traveling. I still have the alpine afd on a few traditional chargers that I only ski with the beefy boots.