If only there was something we could do...

[JimmyCarter]

And I'm fine with not requiring it. You seem not ok with that?

It’s the mental capacity thing you’re worried about, eh?

[Meadow Skipper]

I weigh the pros and cons of guns.

Maybe we’re getting somewhere. Tell us, genious, what are the cons of guns.

[Conundrum]

To which i responded with actual data that showed him wrong. But i also ignored his poll based statement that he presented as factual.

I have posted no polls, nor links to polls, nor poll based opinions. When you’re trying catch fish, matching the hatch helps.

[Meadow Skipper]

Medical malpratice acounts for 4500 child deaths a year in the us.

Isn’t medical malpractice against the law?

[leroy jenkins]

I guess you need me to hold your hand and guide you through this like a toddler since you’re unable to remember what it is we are discussing…

You said “most people don't support gun control these days”

You’re right! It was super easy for me to point it out!

Neither an opinion nor fact, this is obviously presented as my personal perception. This is obvious to anyone who is familiar with the English language, or life in general.

but really, out of everything I've said, this has the least relevance to your gun control arguments and the topic at hand. Arguing about how many people agree with you has strayed a bit from just arguing your actual viewpoint. But of course, you're going to focus on theleast important thing you can find cus you have no rebuttal to anything else.

[leroy jenkins]

Isn’t medical malpractice against the law?

Isn't murder against the law?

[leroy jenkins]

Maybe we’re getting somewhere. Tell us, genious, what are the cons of guns.

Obviously, innocent people getting killed by them. See, its not that hard. I don't have to distort reality and gaslight people to claim nothing they say could have any validity at all.

But you clowns just cannot comprehend and admit any pros like guns saving lives. You cannot weight the scales of pros vs cons without pretending that there just aren't any pros.

Tell me fatass, what are the pros of gun ownership and do you weigh them against the cons?

[Conundrum]

Isn’t medical malpractice against the law?

The doctors and nurses have to have a higher level of education and specific licensures, certifications, and testing to practice medicine. I wonder what the number would be if that wasn’t the case. Also, practicing medicine without these qualifications is illegal.

Med mal can be illegal or it can be a mistake during a procedure deemed not illegal but compensable and why medical providers carry insurance so if an event happens, the injured party (patient or family) receives remediation. There is also a nationally database that tracks providers, outcomes, etc so states can review when licensing a provider in a state.

And really, there has to be something wrong with you to seek care.

So many similarities between medical error and gun control with all the regulations surrounding each that I'm shocked it took this many pages for someone to bring it up.

[leroy jenkins]

I have posted no polls, nor links to polls, nor poll based opinions. When you’re trying catch fish, matching the hatch helps.

Yes you did you gaslighting fuck. Your link supposedly showing how many americans support gun control was all based in polls, except they weren't honest about the exact wording of the questions, and choices for answers, which can be very leading.

Your data showing guns as a leading cause of childhood deaths also completely omits the highest cause, medical malpractice, so its lying and so are you.

And you don't have any actual response to these things.

It wouldn't be that hard for you guys to come up with actual rebuttals. I'm confident if any moderates or people who are undecided on this issue wander in here, they'll see how utterly stupid you all are. You're literally incapable of arguing your point without gaslighting and distorting reality.

[Conundrum]

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-re...cans-and-guns/
Read number 8, then go back to 7. And then tell us why you’re not full of shit.

And say fart sniffing again. It never gets old.

Yes you did you gaslighting fuck. Your link supposedly showing how many americans support gun control was all based in polls, except they weren't honest about the exact wording of the questions, and choices for answers, which can be very leading.

Your data showing guns as a leading cause of childhood deaths also completely omits the highest cause, medical malpractice, so its lying and so are you.

And you don't have any actual response to these things.

It wouldn't be that hard for you guys to come up with actual rebuttals. I'm confident if any moderates or people who are undecided on this issue wander in here, they'll see how utterly stupid you all are. You're literally incapable of arguing your point without gaslighting and distorting reality.

Calm down dipshit. Someone else posted the poll. I posted links to recorded data points.

And your 4,500 deaths was from 2004. Please post more data. And it wasn't medical malpractice. It was medical error. Know the difference? Not that anyone would cherry pick or deflect a conversation such as this.

[leroy jenkins]

The doctors and nurses have to have a higher level of education and specific licensures, certifications, and testing to practice medicine. I wonder what the number would be if that wasn’t the case. Also, practicing medicine without these qualifications is illegal.

Med mal can be illegal or it can be a mistake during a procedure deemed not illegal but compensable and why medical providers carry insurance so if an event happens, the injured party (patient or family) receives remediation. There is also a nationally database that tracks providers, outcomes, etc so states can review when licensing a provider in a state.

And really, there has to be something wrong with you to seek care.

Perfectly reasonable to make a child death data point between a heavily regulated healthcare delivery system and gun ownership. I mean going to school hoping to not get shot is quite similar to a going hospital to have a doctor try to fix an ailment but being concerned that there’s been no vetting whatsoever of your medical provider.

Actually, despite your sarcasm about them not being equivalent, its the differences that actually highlight my point even more. Making a living as a doctor isn't a right. Practicing medicine on others assumes liability.

Gun owners assume liability for where their bullets go when they pull the trigger. We'll never make the whole world safe from violence, but yes, having strict regulations and oversight over people who go to school for decades to operate on other humans beings is a pretty reasonable expectation.


Besides, the real point with this though, is you're a lying gaslighting crazy person. You lied. The article you posted lied. It ommited the highest cause of accidental death for kids. We can debate whether medical malpractice is wroth the pros of medicine, but regardless, you just posted some gaslighting reality distorting propaganda, and you're just playing it off like its nothing when you get called out.


Again, you guys can hate me, you can disagree with me, whatever, but you're doing yourselves all a disservice by distorting reality. Moderates won't trust you when you lie to them. You shouldn't need to distort reality to argue a point that is just and righteous and rational.

[leroy jenkins]

Calm down dipshit. Someone else posted the poll. I posted links to recorded data points.

Oh great. this distinction matters to me deeply. Glad this is so much more important than that the shit you posted is distorting reality and lying to advance its perverted controlling agenda.

Any comment on that? Nah.


I just don't get it. You ould still have a point, and so would that article, if it included the 4500 medical malpractice deaths fo kids a year. but it would't look so dramatic then woudl it? And then some people might be more concerned about medical malpractice, which I'm sure the medical industry would like to avoid. So its omitted. I get why the article omitted it, butdon't getwhy you seem so desparate to not exist in reality.

[bennymac]

Neither an opinion nor fact, this is obviously presented as my personal perception. This is obvious to anyone who is familiar with the English language, or life in general.

but really, out of everything I've said, this has the least relevance to your gun control arguments and the topic at hand. Arguing about how many people agree with you has strayed a bit from just arguing your actual viewpoint. But of course, you're going to focus on theleast important thing you can find cus you have no rebuttal to anything else.

“Neither opinion nor fact but your personal perception”? Hahaha wow you typed that out and posted it. That’s lame as shit dude and you know it.

And your reply to the poll when posted was “Thank god reality is in fact, quite different”

Reality. As in factual reality. You’re arguing the reality is different than what the poll results showed. That’s not opinion or perception - that’s you stating that this poll can be ignored because it’s not what is the reality.

Good gawd man you make it so easy LOL.

And then you try to gaslight by pretending “oh but even though I was the one that was trying to make the point that most Americans don’t actually want gun control the truth is this isn’t an important aspect - I mean when ever has this country considered what the people want amirite? And then I’ll try to further distract from my failure by pointing out that bennymac isn’t currently refuting other aspects - if he’s not refuting everything all at once then anything he does actually refute can be dismissed. Checkmate! I am a genious!”

Bottom line: the epitome of gaslighting is you saying “why are you talking about the subject that I brought up?! That’s not important!”

[leroy jenkins]

“Neither opinion nor fact but your personal perception”? Hahaha wow you typed that out and posted it. That’s lame as shit dude and you know it.

And your reply to the poll when posted was “Thank god reality is in fact, quite different”

Reality. As in factual reality. You’re arguing the reality is different than what the poll results showed. That’s not opinion or perception - that’s you stating that this poll can be ignored because it’s not what is the reality.

Good gawd man you make it so easy LOL.

And then you try to gaslight by pretending “oh but even though I was the one that was trying to make the point that most Americans don’t actually want gun control the truth is this isn’t an important aspect - I mean when ever has this country considered what the people want amirite? And then I’ll try to further distract from my failure by pointing out that bennymac isn’t currently refuting other aspects - if he’s not refuting everything all at once then anything he does actually refute can be dismissed. Checkmate! I am a genious!”

Bottom line: the essence of gaslighting is you saying “why are you talking about the subject that I brought up?! That’s not important!”

Ok yea I said most americans aren't as in favor of gun control as you guys are. True, this wasn't backed up with data, but is just my perception. I'm pretty confident most people think people like you guy are nuts tho.

And yea, it wasn't really a major point of mine, but more a little by the way ad the end of another comment.

But ok, sure, when i used the expression 'in fact' I was basing this on my perceptions, and not empircal data.

I'll admit that.

But it seems miniscule trivial nitpicking and obviously accidental, whereas conundrums gaslighting lying propaganda bullshit is far worse, both in terms of intent, and also, in terms of the scope of the lie.

No? Deliberate attempts to gaslight, not justby him, but the whole gun control movement, to outright distort the common perception of reality, are on par with me not being quite careful enough with my words while use the expression 'in fact'? Sure, bud, sure.


Don't you guys even care about that at all? Don't you care that the graphs and data you're basing your outlook on, are in fact, lying by omission, telling you guns are the most common killer of children when in fact its sloppy doctors and nurses? Like forget about guns entirely for just a moment, doiesn't the gaslight to prevent the public having awareness of the scope of medical malpractice deaths among children give you ANY pause at all? Its not even ironic that its in an article about gun control, gun control isliterally what they use to keep us divided and fighting about bullshit instead of addressing problems that can be fixed but THEY don't want us to think about.

[JimmyCarter]

Ok yea I said most americans aren't as in favor of gun control as you guys are. True, this wasn't backed up with data, but is just my perception. I'm pretty confident most people think people like you guy are nuts tho.

And yea, it wasn't really a major point of mine, but more a little by the way ad the end of another comment.

But ok, sure, when i used the expression 'in fact' I was basing this on my perceptions, and not empircal data.

I'll admit that.

But it seems miniscule trivial nitpicking and obviously accidental, whereas conundrums gaslighting lying propaganda bullshit is far worse, both in terms of intent, and also, in terms of the scope of the lie.

No? Deliberate attempts to gaslight, not justby him, but the whole gun control movement, to outright distort the common perception of reality, are on par with me not being quite careful enough with my words while use the expression 'in fact'? Sure, bud, sure.


Don't you guys even care about that at all? Don't you care that the graphs and data you're basing your outlook on, are in fact, lying by omission, telling you guns are the most common killer of children when in fact its sloppy doctors and nurses? Like forget about guns entirely for just a moment, doiesn't the gaslight to prevent the public having awareness of the scope of medical malpractice deaths among children give you ANY pause at all? Its not even ironic that its in an article about gun control, gun control isliterally what they use to keep us divided and fighting about bullshit instead of addressing problems that can be fixed but THEY don't want us to think about.

I already proved why your malpractice silliness was wrong a few pages back, then you waited a few days and went back to it. Call your handler and get better talking points.

[bennymac]

See guys? It only took me writing 2000 words across 7 posts for Leroy to come around. Who dares say this guy is dishonest and unreasonable to discuss things with?

[CarlMega]

No.

None of you really care that much about dead kids.

Not enough to actually do more than type on a key board or even come up with a novel solution.

Not accurate. I'd wager virtually everyone cares about dead kids, even the gun obsessed.

The solution, imho, is enacting legitimate gun control measures and have an appetite to prosecute people who violate laws either thru carelessness, indifference or criminal intent. Exact measures? Some of them have been long cited in this thread. What I can say certainly won't work is to lean into gun culture and reduce all friction in attaining firearms, glorifying them and increasing access/proliferation. If we can stem the tide some, ideally we can simultaneously focus national mental health (outreach, treatment, engagement) and some culture shifting around promoting conflict resolution / despondency that doesn't involve violence.

tldr; a critical mass of people who are in need of help, or amped up with grievances who have been fed violence as an answer to life's problems - is a bad situation to continuously and progressively grant unfettered access to deadly weapons.

What I personally do: lead by example in proper handling, care & conduct of firearms, give them the respect they warrant. Vote for politicians who tout policy changes that I align with.

See my 6th sentence again. Yah, you didn't even want to count to the 6th sentence.

You are correct.

Sincerely, a gun owner.

[::: :::]

even when baldly confronted with his own incorrectness, it still doesn’t occur to him to reconsider his position in light of that new understanding

sort of remarkable in his resilience to facts, data and logic if it weren’t so tragic

[JimmyCarter]

even when baldly confronted with his own incorrectness, it still doesn’t occur to him to reconsider his position in light of that new understanding

sort of remarkable in his resilience to facts, data and logic if it weren’t so tragic

You’d think he’d be more in favor of gun control, considering the number of times he’s managed to shoot himself in the dick in this thread.

[Art Shirk]

Ok yea I said most americans aren't as in favor of gun control as you guys are. True, this wasn't backed up with data, but is just my perception. I'm pretty confident most people think people like you guy are nuts tho.

And yea, it wasn't really a major point of mine, but more a little by the way ad the end of another comment.

But ok, sure, when i used the expression 'in fact' I was basing this on my perceptions, and not empircal data.

I'll admit that.

But it seems miniscule trivial nitpicking and obviously accidental, whereas conundrums gaslighting lying propaganda bullshit is far worse, both in terms of intent, and also, in terms of the scope of the lie.

No? Deliberate attempts to gaslight, not justby him, but the whole gun control movement, to outright distort the common perception of reality, are on par with me not being quite careful enough with my words while use the expression 'in fact'? Sure, bud, sure.


Don't you guys even care about that at all? Don't you care that the graphs and data you're basing your outlook on, are in fact, lying by omission, telling you guns are the most common killer of children when in fact its sloppy doctors and nurses? Like forget about guns entirely for just a moment, doiesn't the gaslight to prevent the public having awareness of the scope of medical malpractice deaths among children give you ANY pause at all? Its not even ironic that its in an article about gun control, gun control isliterally what they use to keep us divided and fighting about bullshit instead of addressing problems that can be fixed but THEY don't want us to think about.

Ok folks, no need to Google the narcissist’s prayer. It’s right here.


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[dunfree]

You’d think he’d be more in favor of gun control, considering the number of times he’s managed to shoot himself in the dick in this thread.

they are all worried they’d lose their manhood if they couldn’t shoot themselves in the dick

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Ok yea I said most americans aren't as in favor of gun control as you guys are. True, this wasn't backed up with data, but is just my perception. I'm pretty confident most people think people like you guy are nuts tho.

And yea, it wasn't really a major point of mine, but more a little by the way ad the end of another comment.

But ok, sure, when i used the expression 'in fact' I was basing this on my perceptions, and not empircal data.

I'll admit that.

But it seems miniscule trivial nitpicking and obviously accidental, whereas conundrums gaslighting lying propaganda bullshit is far worse, both in terms of intent, and also, in terms of the scope of the lie.

No? Deliberate attempts to gaslight, not justby him, but the whole gun control movement, to outright distort the common perception of reality, are on par with me not being quite careful enough with my words while use the expression 'in fact'? Sure, bud, sure.


Don't you guys even care about that at all? Don't you care that the graphs and data you're basing your outlook on, are in fact, lying by omission, telling you guns are the most common killer of children when in fact its sloppy doctors and nurses? Like forget about guns entirely for just a moment, doiesn't the gaslight to prevent the public having awareness of the scope of medical malpractice deaths among children give you ANY pause at all? Its not even ironic that its in an article about gun control, gun control isliterally what they use to keep us divided and fighting about bullshit instead of addressing problems that can be fixed but THEY don't want us to think about.

All hail King Gaslighter!


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[Meadow Skipper]

Obviously, innocent people getting killed by them. See, it’s not that hard. I don't have to distort reality and gaslight people to claim nothing they say could have any validity at all.

Okay, wouldn’t it be better if there were fewer guns and so fewer innocent people would get killed?

Tell me fatass…

Boy, you’re really reaching here. When I call you a genious, I’m using your own word to make fun of you. When you call me fatass, you’re not exactly making fun of someone (me) that wears 30 inch waist pants. It just makes you look stupid, and then you don’t need any help from me.

what are the pros of gun ownership and do you weigh them against the cons?

Well, the pro is that you can kill someone with it, whether they deserve it or not.

[Meadow Skipper]

Calm down dipshit. Someone else posted the poll.

Boy, ol’ Leroy’s looking pretty fucking stupid in this round.

[Mazderati]

I don't know. He craves attention and is getting plenty of it.