Tahoe '23/'24 - Reserve Now For Best Pricing!!!

[J. Barron DeJong]

Want to see the future?

I bought my first brand new motorcycle last year and paid an additional $600 to unlock electronic performance features that were already on the bike as it was delivered. The dealer just hooked it to the computer and pushed the "this sucker paid" button.
At least I am not paying a recurring charge monthly or annually to 'use' them, but I'm sure that's coming.

See how that can play out at a ski resort?
You want to ski KT? That's an additional usage fee, and maybe based on an AI surge pricing model based on crowds, demand and weather....

Rest assured there are data analysts proposing data driven models to extricate every possible dime from customers for the equity firms. They are just biding their time for rollouts so they don't shock the system too much.
Paid reserved parking is a low hanging fruit as it is a pain point for all customers to easily agree to.

/Pessimist rant against private equity firms

https://www.theverge.com/2023/9/7/23...crotransaction

[Blaster]

Carpenter Valley/Red Mountain - I say roll out the Red Carpet.
Attachment 484305

I feel like Martis peak would make more sense. Higher elevations and fewer wetlands that would need bulldozing. 267 would need updates to handle higher vehicle volume but that would be relatively easier than widening 89.

[powdork]

I don't see how you could put anything there even as big as Lookout Mountain at Northstar.

[emcee]

I feel like Martis peak would make more sense. Higher elevations and fewer wetlands that would need bulldozing. 267 would need updates to handle higher vehicle volume but that would be relatively easier than widening 89.

new ski resort development is sort of the elephant in the room huh. we (rightly) bitch and moan about how everything has gotten harder and more crowded...

but california population has doubled from 20mm in 1975 to 40mm in 2020, and ski traffic probably even more so- probably 3X to 4X skier volume all scrapping over the same number of acres and parking spots unchanged since 1975.

again i am not an advocate for clearcutting trees and paving over riparian habitats, but surely status quo of gridlocked, idling engines leaking oil off 89 into the creek is also an issue.

especially in our world of megafires torching 100k acres at a time, it often feels like our "no touching!" environmental policy amounts to putting Nature under a glass box and watching her burn anyways.

surely we could imagine a way to develop a ski area that respects local ecology and incorporates best practices particularly around minimizing private vehicular traffic.

[mogul5480]

New Sierra resorts are my favorite topic.

North Lake:

Just expand Sugar Bowl. Turn Soda Springs/Norden into a high-density, Euro-style ski village with thousands of beds, shopping, and public transport. Connect SB by lift to Donner, Soda Springs, and Boreal, while expanding some expert terrain into the backcountry. It is the closest resort to the Bay, requires zero sketchy mountain driving, and has a high elevation. It should be our largest resort.

N* can't really be expanded without heading to south-facing terrain at low elevations, which is a snow coverage issue.

South Lake

Expand Sierra, both on-snow and lodging at the base (same reasons, see above). Obviously not as much to work with here as North Lake, but this is a game of margins.

If you wanna really go nuts, build a new resort in NE Meyers with chairlifts up Echo, or dropping over the ridge (backside, bros!) towards Fallen Leaf

Extra Credit:

There could be a fancy 4-season resort (N* style) wrapped around Silver Lake on Highway 88. You can get to it without driving over Carson Spur, and the mountains around there go up to almost 9000 feet. There are some ridiculously steep chutes visible from the highway, and the rest would be a mellow, mostly north-facing zone just east of Kit Carson Lodge. The summer potential around there is insane. This would create economies of scale for that region, driving up service levels and driving down costs in Kirkwood.

MOAR SKI RESORTS.

[mmmm...pow!]

See how that can play out at a ski resort?
You want to ski KT? That's an additional usage fee, and maybe based on an AI surge pricing model based on crowds, demand and weather....

Big Sky beat Alterra to it.

[Not DJSapp]

There could be a fancy 4-season resort (N* style) wrapped around Silver Lake on Highway 88. You can get to it without driving over Carson Spur, and the mountains around there go up to almost 9000 feet. There are some ridiculously steep chutes visible from the highway, and the rest would be a mellow, mostly north-facing zone just east of Kit Carson Lodge. The summer potential around there is insane. This would create economies of scale for that region, driving up service levels and driving down costs in Kirkwood.

MOAR SKI RESORTS.

YOU SHUT YOUR WHORE MOUTH ABOUT SILVER LAKE DURING THE SUMMER. Nobody else needs to know it exists, it's doing just fine. Highway 88 is a figment of your imagation, everything burned down from Caldor, and there is nothing to see or do there. It is very, very far away on a deadly road that nobody should ever travel on.

Has anyone stomped around Iron Mountain since Caldor? Did any of that survive?

[rod9301]

New Sierra resorts are my favorite topic.

North Lake:

Just expand Sugar Bowl. Turn Soda Springs/Norden into a high-density, Euro-style ski village with thousands of beds, shopping, and public transport. Connect SB by lift to Donner, Soda Springs, and Boreal, while expanding some expert terrain into the backcountry. It is the closest resort to the Bay, requires zero sketchy mountain driving, and has a high elevation. It should be our largest resort.

N* can't really be expanded without heading to south-facing terrain at low elevations, which is a snow coverage issue.

South Lake

Expand Sierra, both on-snow and lodging at the base (same reasons, see above). Obviously not as much to work with here as North Lake, but this is a game of margins.

If you wanna really go nuts, build a new resort in NE Meyers with chairlifts up Echo, or dropping over the ridge (backside, bros!) towards Fallen Leaf

Extra Credit:

There could be a fancy 4-season resort (N* style) wrapped around Silver Lake on Highway 88. You can get to it without driving over Carson Spur, and the mountains around there go up to almost 9000 feet. There are some ridiculously steep chutes visible from the highway, and the rest would be a mellow, mostly north-facing zone just east of Kit Carson Lodge. The summer potential around there is insane. This would create economies of scale for that region, driving up service levels and driving down costs in Kirkwood.

MOAR SKI RESORTS.

Have you skied these chutes? How's the access?

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[SnowMachine]

I know it's the controversial position to take. But I think north Lake Tahoe could use another ski resort. Perhaps something north of 80 to keep people off 89. The last permitted new ski resort in California was Northstar.

Outside environmental concerns, I dont see a downside, either. Particularly if it draws crowds in another direction. Up north?

[Mountainman]

For you Mt Rose skiers, does it usually take this long to get the Chutes open?

[old goat]

Carpenter Valley/Red Mountain - I say roll out the Red Carpet.
Attachment 484305

Owned by the Truckee Donner Land Trust. Chance of development--zero.

Skiing was interesting today.

[Eastern Sierra Skier]

For you Mt Rose skiers, does it usually take this long to get the Chutes open?

Good question as I was wondering that myself. I’ve certainly seen them open in years past with less snow.

El Cap area looking skiable.


Lo Ball looks doable.


Upper Miller Time.
Chutes look skiable to me, but that’s just my perspective.

[truckeelocal]

Owned by the Truckee Donner Land Trust. Chance of development--zero.

Independence Lake too.
How about developing Johnsville Ski Bowl ? Pump up Blairsden/Greaeagle's winter economy. Only an hour from Truckee. But requires use of Looonnnnnggggggg skis.

[hercule33]

I agree that building new resorts makes a lot of sense from a skiing perspective but I am not so sure it makes sense financially. With climate change it would have to be a four season resort and that is still an unproven business model. Huge fixed costs up front for unknown marginal costs seems like a risky business venture.

[emcee]

I agree that building new resorts makes a lot of sense from a skiing perspective but I am not so sure it makes sense financially. With climate change it would have to be a four season resort and that is still an unproven business model. Huge fixed costs up front for unknown marginal costs seems like a risky business venture.

this is the depressing truth

[TurxSki]

Good question as I was wondering that myself. I’ve certainly seen them open in years past with less snow...

I think it has to do with the cat track to the lift having enough snow on it.
You can prolly google when it opened in past seasons.
Outlaw has been fun...well except for the refrozen chunks that one time...entrance to Miller time never looks so smooth when open [emoji53]

[fomofo]

Put this in Grass Valley, or maybe right in Sac...

https://www.liberty.edu/campusrec/snowflex

Make sure to add a huge waterpark for that four season appeal. And lots and lots of parking, of course, for all the personal Freightliners!

Redirect Alterra there and everybody will be happy at last.

[meter-man]

All the social media pressure seems to have gotten to PT - they (finally) opened Headwall yesterday, Wa She Shu was turned back on 7 days a week, same with Emigrant, and now they are even opening Sherwood. They say Sherwood is too thin so will not be grooming it. Stoked they are finally getting more terrain open.

I credit sacrificing my collarbone in mid-December - things seem to have improved since then, eh?

On the diminishing services, just at the big hill PT, what have we lost? So much. Regularly running Headwall. Silverado couldn't run last year because there was too much snow, and reportedly it moved or pushed a lift tower out of alignment - has that been fixed? Who knows. Doubt it. Remember night skiing? Remember the pool and the hot tub? Remember the ice rink at High Camp? Remember the halfpipe? Remember The Jerry Garcia Band playing outside Gold Coast in the summer?? All gone and lost. Remember the short-lived Early Ups program? (Is that gone too?) At least the terrain is still facking awesome.

I wish there was a Mineral King or something similar that actually got you into the High Sierra. Mammoth doesn't count because it's only adjacent to the High Sierra. Maybe the Pine Creek mine will sell its land to us skiers, and we can put something in Pine Creek Canyon. EH??? Pipe dreams...

[SP_7]

^ Sad days. I thought operations had actually really improved the last couple of years. It's really gone backwards now. We'll open Sherwood but we'll sure the hell won't groom it! Silverado was the big lie last year. They knew it had issues, but the blog said it was going to run again after all the snow, then nothing. Forget about BA, Oly and Silvy this year for sure. This year they tell upper mountain staff not to come in but keep all the lifts as scheduled on the app until 9am when they know stuff won't run. The communication on the app/X has also severely degraded this year.

High Camp seems abandoned. Springtime and the pool... Anyone hear anything on any future plans up there?

[hercule33]

Future plans for PT seem to be more excuses and cost cutting. Absolutely pathetic what is happening this year.

[meter-man]

^ Sad days. I thought operations had actually really improved the last couple of years. It's really gone backwards now. We'll open Sherwood but we'll sure the hell won't groom it! Silverado was the big lie last year. They knew it had issues, but the blog said it was going to run again after all the snow, then nothing. Forget about BA, Oly and Silvy this year for sure. This year they tell upper mountain staff not to come in but keep all the lifts as scheduled on the app until 9am when they know stuff won't run. The communication on the app/X has also severely degraded this year.

High Camp seems abandoned. Springtime and the pool... Anyone hear anything on any future plans up there?

When Ron Cohen came up from Mammoth to run ops, it seemed better for sure.

On these seasons that start slow, it seems like they don’t fully staff up because they need less workers. Then, when it inevitably snows in January (or February), they don’t have enough bodies to run the full area.


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[SnowMachine]

I feel like Martis peak would make more sense. Higher elevations and fewer wetlands that would need bulldozing. 267 would need updates to handle higher vehicle volume but that would be relatively easier than widening 89.

Get out of my yard. That's my ski resortz!! Some walking required.

[SnowMachine]

All the social media pressure seems to have gotten to PT - they (finally) opened Headwall yesterday, Wa She Shu was turned back on 7 days a week, same with Emigrant, and now they are even opening Sherwood. They say Sherwood is too thin so will not be grooming it. Stoked they are finally getting more terrain open.

I credit sacrificing my collarbone in mid-December - things seem to have improved since then, eh?

On the diminishing services, just at the big hill PT, what have we lost? So much. Regularly running Headwall. Silverado couldn't run last year because there was too much snow, and reportedly it moved or pushed a lift tower out of alignment - has that been fixed? Who knows. Doubt it. Remember night skiing? Remember the pool and the hot tub? Remember the ice rink at High Camp? Remember the halfpipe? Remember The Jerry Garcia Band playing outside Gold Coast in the summer?? All gone and lost. Remember the short-lived Early Ups program? (Is that gone too?) At least the terrain is still facking awesome.

I wish there was a Mineral King or something similar that actually got you into the High Sierra. Mammoth doesn't count because it's only adjacent to the High Sierra. Maybe the Pine Creek mine will sell its land to us skiers, and we can put something in Pine Creek Canyon. EH??? Pipe dreams...

Yeah dude. We joke about making t-shirts promoting High Camp. Who needs a water park in the parking lot. Hot tubs at High Camp are the jam!

[powdork]

I agree that building new resorts makes a lot of sense from a skiing perspective but I am not so sure it makes sense financially. With climate change it would have to be a four season resort and that is still an unproven business model. Huge fixed costs up front for unknown marginal costs seems like a risky business venture.

Why do you all assume climate change is going to drastically change our weather. Climate and weather aren't the same thing. The average level at which a snowpack forms will rise marginally over time, but some years will be like last year, some years will be like this year.
Also, what are the costs of building a new resort vs buying an existing resort? Because they certainly seem to think ski resorts are financially viable enough to gobble up the existing ones.

[SnowMachine]

Why do you all assume climate change is going to drastically change our weather. Climate and weather aren't the same thing. The average level at which a snowpack forms will rise marginally over time, but some years will be like last year, some years will be like this year.
Also, what are the costs of building a new resort vs buying an existing resort? Because they certainly seem to think ski resorts are financially viable enough to gobble up the existing ones.

We've had global cooling, then global warming, now climate change. We know changes are happening. Does that mean more snow or less. Science keeps changing its mind. The last major earth climate event was an ice age, no?

What about snowfall averages? We continue to have records both directions. A lot of the records that are broken are decades old or more.

Now they say that in 10 years we won't be skiing around the basin anymore. Anybody want to make bets?

I'm not saying we shouldn't stop treating our planet like a garbage can, but I'm not lock step in believing that we've terminally broken the earth (the earth's climate was breaking itself far before humans came along).

The truth is probably far scarier. A major earthquake, volcanic event or cosmic collision could end life on earth any day. Wouldn't be the first time...

I'm going to keep getting up every morning, while I can. I'm not going to stop buying ski gear any time soon, either.

Ya'll see this:

https://www.powder.com/prestige-weat...-sierra-nevada

Fingers crossed.