Tecnica ZeroG Tour Pro - 2018- 9 boot

[summit]

I would likely buy a pair or two for some Frankie boot projects.

Depends on your project? 26.5 with oval'd ankle pivots

[concierge]

I would likely buy a pair or two for some Frankie boot projects.

Awesome, I am definitely going to do a production run for around 20 pairs. I will shoot you a DM when they are available.

[Choucas]

This refers back to a question about what kind of heel lift I went with in my Scouts from back in April: I tried a bunch of heel lift thicknesses. Went with the skinniest one. I also put a bontex shim under the liner to take up some volume. I think I had 3 thicknesses to work with and went with the medium one. Trying to get a more connected, closer to the shell feeling. Bindings are mounted on the line. I don't do forward mounts. 179 Blaze 94.

[concierge]

This refers back to a question about what kind of heel lift I went with in my Scouts from back in April: I tried a bunch of heel lift thicknesses. Went with the skinniest one.

Are you liking the heel lift solution? I've always felt with heel lifts if I get an actual noticeable impact on the forward lean, it pushes my foot forward touring and hurts my toes. Also I feel like I don't get good shin to cuff contact with a heel lift. That is why I am going through the hassle of making the mod to increase the forward lean.

[LukeWright]

Had a pair of 28.5 scouts and decided to go down to the 27.5 pro this season. Wear a 27.5 mach 1 without any punching but definitely going to heat mold and/or punch the pros. Took them out for an early season tour recently and was feeling pretty crushed by the shell width-wise on the climb. How have people's experiences with molding the CAS shells been?

[GoldenBC]

So I hate the wire buckles and want to replace them, has anyone done this and found ones that have holes that line up well? Ideally looking for a buckle like the Hawx XTD touring clip style.

[gregL]

Had a pair of 28.5 scouts and decided to go down to the 27.5 pro this season. Wear a 27.5 mach 1 without any punching but definitely going to heat mold and/or punch the pros. Took them out for an early season tour recently and was feeling pretty crushed by the shell width-wise on the climb. How have people's experiences with molding the CAS shells been?

The Grilamid CAS shells do not heat mold (in a K-Tech oven), you need to hit them with a heat gun and a lever punch to create more width (the PU CAS shells don't either). Creating more width in a Tecnica boot, whether Mach 1 or Zero G, calls for a skilled bootfitter. The divots at the fifth met (and elsewhere) are a convenient and usually very accurate guide to where to punch, however.

[DarthMarkus]

Had a pair of 28.5 scouts and decided to go down to the 27.5 pro this season. Wear a 27.5 mach 1 without any punching but definitely going to heat mold and/or punch the pros. Took them out for an early season tour recently and was feeling pretty crushed by the shell width-wise on the climb. How have people's experiences with molding the CAS shells been?

If you came out of the MV mach 1, ya, you should punch the shells on the zero g. If you came out of the LV, there's probably some weird shenanigans going on.

Skied both the mach 1 LV and Zero G for the past 2 seasons. Needed to punch both boots on the 6th toe. Grilamid doesn't always play as nice as other plastics. Punch it, maybe punch it twice and throw it in the freezer for a day before you pull the punch device out.

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[GoldenBC]

There is no reason to have to do weird things punching a Zero G. The Grilamid (as with most grilamid boots) punches very easily and rebounds less than a PU boot. The tricky thing with grilamid is that you don’t get it too hot and make the punch look disgusting. Don’t heat it up too hot, but at least warm on the inside, and punch it. If you’re using a lever punch, blend out the edges of the punch as it follow the die very aggressively and can leave hard edges, especially if you have a linkage driven punch that really follows through at the end of the motion. As Greg said, it takes a skilled bootfitter, but not one more skilled than someone who can punch any other boot and has punched at least one grilamid boot before.

Ps. I heat gunned the sides of my boot while they were on my feet and it very much heat molded the shells.

[gregL]

Grilamid doesn't always play as nice as other plastics. Punch it, maybe punch it twice and throw it in the freezer for a day before you pull the punch device out.

I'm with GoldenBC, Grilamid punches just fine, and while the solid-melt curve is a little different than a high quality Polyether boot, most of the risk is due to the fact that the Grilamid shells are 30% as thick as a 130 flex PU boot. You do need to get it to the right temperature without overheating, but you don't need to punch multiple times or leave it on the punch overnight, etc. Once you cool a boot to room temperature, getting it colder doesn't do anything.

I punch Grilamid boots on a daily basis, FWIW, and find a Scarpa Maestrale RS or Dynafit Speed Radical (or indeed, a Zero G Tour Pro) a pleasure to work on.

As for whether or not you need to widen the forefoot, let your foot decide, but yeah if you're coming from a Mach 1 MV you'll probably want to.

[sb]

What is the proper temp for grilamid to be punched if i might ask?

[wilcox510]

So I hate the wire buckles and want to replace them, has anyone done this and found ones that have holes that line up well? Ideally looking for a buckle like the Hawx XTD touring clip style.

I also hated them, and broke them all. All the little springs that give them tension when open broke. I think I replaced 7 of them over time (all free from Tecnica). So last year I ordered some of the buckles from the plain Zero G Tour (the blue one). It has normal buckles. But to my surprise the buckle catches did not have touring extensions/catches on them. So I found a pair of beat up ancient Atomic Hawx for like $30 and took the catches from them This reduces the fiddle factor significantly. It actually improves the touring range of motion too, because those touring catches extend quite a bit farther than the original ones.

I was also sick of the instep buckles just falling off because of the previously mentioned springs breaking so I grabbed some buckle cathces from old Dynafit Ones (ore TLT 6, Vlucans, Mercuries...) and put them them on the instep. Works great with the original wire buckle.

I have always found toe buckles to be pointless, particularly on a touring boot. I never tighten them, so I removed them years ago, filled the holes with silicone and never had an issue.

Yes, I am a huuuuge nerd.

Also, I've developed a huge amount of slop in the cuff rivets. I had them pressed twice which temporarily helped. Tecnica sent me a new set of the rivets, just had them installed for $60, good as new. So it seems there was no rounding out of the plastic, it was just the rivets that were shot. But I have't used them yet.

I've got 4 shell punches on each boot so not very interested in replacing these until I find something that skis nearly as well and tours better (very hopeful that the replacement that should be coming out next year will have improved touring range of motion).

[DarthMarkus]

There is no reason to have to do weird things punching a Zero G. The Grilamid (as with most grilamid boots) punches very easily and rebounds less than a PU boot. The tricky thing with grilamid is that you don’t get it too hot and make the punch look disgusting. Don’t heat it up too hot, but at least warm on the inside, and punch it. If you’re using a lever punch, blend out the edges of the punch as it follow the die very aggressively and can leave hard edges, especially if you have a linkage driven punch that really follows through at the end of the motion. As Greg said, it takes a skilled bootfitter, but not one more skilled than someone who can punch any other boot and has punched at least one grilamid boot before.

Ps. I heat gunned the sides of my boot while they were on my feet and it very much heat molded the shells.

Guess my experience has been with less skilled bootfitters then. Grilamid was a bit after my time fitting boots, so haven't really had much hands on experience. Maybe a few scarpas if they used it 6-7 years ago? The orange Maestrales come to mind. Otherwise, I had to take mine into the shop twice. So maybe they just didn't take their time with it.


Attachment 476097

[gregL]

Guess my experience has been with less skilled bootfitters then. Grilamid was a bit after my time fitting boots, so haven't really had much hands on experience. Maybe a few scarpas if they used it 6-7 years ago? The orange Maestrales come to mind. Otherwise, I had to take mine into the shop twice. So maybe they just didn't take their time with it.

Plastics have continued to evolve and are more punch-friendly now than before. Very thick polyether shells (i.e. plug race boots) have always been a bitch to punch, even now I usually grind a bit before punching and they tend to have more "memory" than current PU shells, especially heat moldable models. Yes, a new Maestrale punches way easier than an OG one (there were some Pebax ones that were stubborn, current Pebax R-New is fine). Aside from race boots, older Full Tilts and the Black Diamond Pebax (or any older Pebax) boots stand out as being a pain in the ass.

FWIW, plenty of great bootfitters who earned their chops doing race boots and stiff recreational boots don't have a lot of touring boot experience and are wary of light Grilamid shells. Also, Grilamid is not one plastic, there are dozens of formulas and even more if you count the carbon infused ones.

[gregL]

What is the proper temp for grilamid to be punched if i might ask?

The temperature at which the plastic is very warm to the touch all the way through, but before you melt the top surface. I've thrown away the IR thermometer at the shop and teach everyone to use their finger inside the shell, if you can only touch it for .5 second you are about at the right temp. Typically you have to alternate between heating and letting the heat soak in to not melt the surface. Hold the gun as close to the shell as you can (1/4 - 1/2") so as not to heat the surrounding plastic (it will distort where you don't want it to, esp. with open throat touring models) but don't leave it in one spot for long.

[gregL]

*As for using infrared thermometers as a boot punching tool, I am not a fan. You can heat a boot and measure five spots within a few centimeters of where you aimed the gun and get five drastically different answers. Also, and probably more important, you are measuring the surface temperature of the plastic, not the interior temperature which is most important in terms of plastic elasticity.

[sb]

Thx!

[Beder]

Ps. I heat gunned the sides of my boot while they were on my feet and it very much heat molded the shells.

I'll try this before I punch. Did you wear a toe cap or pad areas where you especially needed room?

[LukeWright]

If you came out of the MV mach 1, ya, you should punch the shells on the zero g. If you came out of the LV, there's probably some weird shenanigans going on.

Yeah, MV. Looks like a trip to the shop is in order.

[GoldenBC]

I'll try this before I punch. Did you wear a toe cap or pad areas where you especially needed room?

Depends on how much room you need or how soft the body part that needs room is. My foot is very flexible width wise and I needed it punched for the big meat pad behind the 6th toe, so I did pad it. If your foot is more solid and you’re wanting room around bone spurs, I would try it first without pads.

Toe caps for toe width for sure. Or just a pad on the side of your toe. If you need length for toes, you’ll most likely need to punch. I’ve never really found that heat molding does much for length since toes just get squished backwards and the toe box is too strong of a shape.

[gregL]

Ps. I heat gunned the sides of my boot while they were on my feet and it very much heat molded the shells.

Yes, but you already had a good idea of how much time/heat to apply. I've done it in an emergency (hotel in Austria) to a Maestrale RS with six bandaids over the guy's fifth met and a hair dryer set on hot . . .

[sb]

^^^ Thats awesome.

[meter-man]

DELETED - ankle rivets and fixes are addressed at Page 47-48 of this thread. Sorry.

[GoldenBC]

I feel like I missed a few posts here. Great heating tips from Greg. The only thing I’d add is that I like to cool the surface a tiny bit if I’m using the punch to reduce marking and denting and making the shell look shitty. Just a quick wipe with snow.

I’ve never measured the temp of a boot in my life. Always heat based on feel.

Wilcox, thanks for the buckle beta

[sb]

Shout out to Madalyn at Tecnica for sending me not one but two sets of cuff pivot/rivets for my ZGTP boots. She was unsure what year mine were and doubled down on the customer service.

Bouya!