On my 1999 100-series LC, full time 4wd means that it’s an open differential and one wheel of the 4 receives torque. (Fuck me if I’m wrong). Not sure of the difference for Toyota between awd and full time 4wd.
I hadn't seen Tacoma numbers. I know it uses the same powertrain though, so it will be interesting to see.
Looking it up now, one site claims it will come out 24 City/30 Highway via the EPA, but nothing else I could find backed that up as the actual numbers.
Edit: Looked at the EPA site and the only vehicle with the 2.4 turbo/hybrid powertrain listed is the Grand Highlander. Looks the hybrid beats the non-hybrid 2.4 turbo by about 4-5 mpg for its combined rating, almost all of that advantage coming from city driving. The 2.5 non-turbo hybrid is the real fuel economy champ of the Grand Highlander lineup. It gets 34 mpg combined with AWD, a big leap from the Hybrid Max powertrain. It only has 245 combined net hp, and 175 lb.-ft. @ 4400 rpm though, and the towing is downgraded from 5000 lbs to 3500 lbs. The torque specs seem oddly low to me and they don't reference "combined" so I'm not sure if it includes the electric motors.
AWD vs 4WD in Toyota is a viscous coupler. Basically there is a limited slip device between the front and back axle that you can turn on/off (center diff lock button in LCs). 4x4 is delivering same power to front and rear axles 50/50. AWD is more like you're saying but it might be 20/80, 40/60 etc at any given minute.
Same idea as a front or rear diff lock. When you hear 3x locked for LCs, it means center, rear, and front lockers.
Yeah. So “full time 4wd” on a Toyota w/o engaging the center diff (a button on my truck) is applying torque to only one wheel. My 06 awd matrix has a viscous coupler, I thought Toyota had electrified their awd.
Point being, “full time 4wd” vs “awd” should not affect mpg, right?
Last edited by bodywhomper; 08-30-2023 at 08:56 PM. Reason: Added “not”
When you drive an old land cruiser you don't give a fuck about MPG. Getting new buyers to care is an interesting proposition but most will not care as you are buying a pedigree
Btw all 80 series have center lock differential when engaging Low Range.
I mostly care because it is in the MPG range that is worth considering for a DD for the wife. But I think I'm still in the group that's more likely to buy her a nice DD and an old 80 series to beat around.
I'm one of the potential new buyers. If I'm buying a new car, I care about MPGs. I keep my vehicles a long time - it's one of the reasons I am interested in the LC - and I don't want to be driving a low double digit vehicle for the next 15+ years. I'm not against getting a less efficient vehicle as a shorter term stop gap until hybrid/electric vehicles and infrastructure matures, but if I'm not thinking of keeping it long term, I'm not as willing to spend as much money on it. Partially because it won't be something I drive that often as I have more efficient vehicles for my commute. Land Cruisers hold their value so well that it puts them at a higher price point than I want to pay, even if they do continue to hold their value so well that eventual cost of ownership might not be much higher than anything else.
I think it makes sense to want good mpg when buying a new car these days. My wife and I are intentionally not buying new cars and limping along our older cars because we are totally sure what to do, when infrastructure or car tech will drastically change, and our old cars (all Toyotas) keep going. Plus, holy shit, newer tech cars are expensive.
Is Toyota making a diesel hybrid for their trucks outside the US?
I have read nothing about the new Grand Highlander except that it has awd with a viscous coupler (versus the awd hybrid system used in the rav4 and Prius). 4lo is a huge selling point for me and being able to start in second gear. I went for a decade w/o a car with 4lo and I forgot how much I missed it. Rear locking diff is pretty nice, too. I used all those functions together several times this past winter.
The 100-series does this, too. Apparently, there’s a wiring trick to override that automatic function.
Land Cruisers and MPG are oil and water. Boxed frames, squarish bodies, overbuilt components, full-time AWD in later models....none of it was aimed at MPG, especially in the US market where diesel versions were not available.
There are many, many things that draw me to these vehicles but MPG isn't one of them.
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i like to say my 4runner is designed to push air
Comparable? I stay so far away from Range Rovers I can't even tell you MPG or even what their model names are. Does Mitsubishi even make the Montero anymore? That was another comp
The new LC doesn't exist yet. The price is gonna be higher than expected. Compare to the Bronco?
And if you're handy, you can mod it to be selectable in high or low range. Good for going 4x4 in high and for only needing low gear for going downhill slow without brakes or towing up without 4x4.
Yeah, if I wanted great mpg, I'd buy a Prius hybrid. Something to be said for living close to work, fun, and groceries.
The 2024 LC claims 27mpg combined, which would be well above best in-class for current model body-on-frame (ish) 4WD's. I've driven the new Suburban and Escalade diesels and they can certainly get close to 30mpg in the right conditions, but 27 combined would be super impressive and tops the Wrangler 4dr EcoDiesel.
2023 Sequoia: 19/22
2023 LC600: 17/22
2023 GX460: 15/19
2023 Armada: 13/18
2023 QX80: 13/19
2023 Discovery MHEV: 19/25
2023 Defender 110 MHEV: 18/23
2023 G550: 13/16
2023 Wrangler 4dr D: 22/29
2023 Wrangler 4dr G: 21/24
2023 Tahoe G 5.3: 15/20
2023 Escalade D: 20/26
2023 Bronco 4dr: 20/21
2023 Expedition: 15/19
2023 Grand Wagoneer D: 16/23
2023 Grand Wagoneer G: 15/20
Last edited by alpinevibes; 08-31-2023 at 10:33 AM.
Thanks for putting that together. That’s what I was wondering. Definitely seems to be part of their biz model to get sales due to high mpg.
As Toyota fights for market space and relevancy against the Rivian's of the future, their best bet is to make meaningful gains in their efficiency, despite their lagging in that area over the last decade (besides Rav4 and Highlander). I think that the entire car sales approach and consumer mindset will continue to shift significantly as EV's become a greater share of the market, federal MPG regulations loom and the cost of fuel stays high. I hate to lean on fuel cost as a meaningful metric of consumer spending for most households (I think it's overblown by most people), but there is a stark cost difference for most people between ICE and EV's as the price of EV's continues to drop. Though tens of millions of Americans drive 10-15mpg avg trucks and SUV's (and won't be leaving those anytime soon), the market is shifting and the cost reality will dawn on many people soon enough.
We're looking to get an older GX460 this fall and keep that for 3-5 years and I'd be very interested in the new LC to replace it, especially if it gets ~30MPG hwy
But, thread-drift aside, what's the story here? https://carbuzz.com/news/what-is-a-t...ing-in-florida
USSOCOM is based at MacDill AFB right outside Tampa. Pretty common to bring in world-market vehicles that you’d encounter in places where JSOC assets might end up.
As for the LC250, I think the more interesting matchup is gonna be LC250 vs GX550 vs 4Runner. The LC250 vs the GX550 should mostly be power, interior space, and luxury given they’re both purported to have the 9.5” ring gear out back and otherwise identical platform. The upcoming 4Runner has yet to be detailed, but it wouldn’t surprise me to see the old 8.2” ring gear in the rear axle and maybe go a little more economy-minded. I had dinner with the GM of truck strategy for Toyota USA last summer and he seemed sharp, so I expect the lineup to make sense with just enough overlap for dealer sales douches to work their magic.
Funny, we just picked up a '01 Sequoia w/ 55k on the ODO. Pretty much a deal that fell in my lap and couldn't pass up. We've been discussing what to do with it and one scenario is to sell my wife's new rav4 hybrid and have her commute in the Sequoia until EV tech improves to the predicted 900 mile range and 10 min charging. $40k in the bank from selling the hybrid is tempting, and the Sequoia gets 18 mpg, which ain't terrible. It would take a very long time for that to make a dent in the calculation.
Yeah I saw your post about the Sequoia and it made me hopeful on our end. I've been asking/chatting around town for a similar garage-kept LC/LX (that a property manager has been "asked" to sell) here for a few years. I doubt it will come through, but I know there are many many possibilities in a town like this. But timing and life dictate that we're past time to replace my dilapidated '05 Escape so I think buying a '10-13 460 this fall will be the outcome.
We're also EV curious and would potentially trade/sell our Alltrack for an iD4 or Model 3, but I can't pay for two cars right now - let alone one...
Definitely EV curious, but not early adopters. We are adding solar to the house this month so headed that direction for sure. I just think we have to be patient and it'll pay off when EVs make some huge strides.
We drive too much and too far an carry too much shit to really deal with the current EVs that are available. But 900 mile range would be amazing. Now if they'd just put that in a truck.
sorry for the thread drift though. Yeah, finding a deal on a GX is getting harder and harder. But be patient and I'm sure something will come out of the woodwork
It’s be more amazing for someone to actually drive 15 hours without having to take a piss and eat a sandwich.
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18mpg is a stretch.
Unless all you drive is flat highway at 53mph.
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find...n=sbs&id=17296
Sorry, had to look it up because I don’t even get 18 on my 2011 4Runner mixed driving.
Why not flip the Sequoia and keep the RAV4 hybrid as a commuter?
It is bone stock with plain street tires. Computer states 18.3 mpg and calculator confirms that it is close.
I just can’t bring myself to flip the Sequoia. It is like brand new. Another option is that we keep it as a camping car. Put a 3” lift on it and light GOTOS.
Might sell my 2009 Tundra that gets 13 mpg downhill with a tailwind.
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